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O2 sensor question ...

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Offline UberAsuna

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O2 sensor question ...
« on: October 28, 2003, 12:37:14 AM »
Over the week end i meet some people that had 1.6 16v sidekicks and i noticed under the hood its a little different then my Sunrunner 92'  1.6  8v ...
I saw that theire O2 sensor was on the air filter box ...
But i dont remember having anything attached to mine when i had the full air filter box setup ... now i have a K&N cone filter and id love to know where the O2 sensor is placed on my truck plz.
It's A Zuki Thing, Dig It Sucka ;) :D ;D

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2003, 02:24:06 AM »
Well I don't know if you can follow all of this,
but the 16V is a MAF FI system (mass air flow)
and the sensor you saw is an air temp sensor.

MAF systems require air mass as well as temp,
which also affects the density of the air being
drawn into the engine.

The O2 sensor is in the exhaust system, it only
works after it gets hot from the exhaust gasses,
after that it is able to tell the computer if the
exhaust is lean or rich, so the computer can adjust
the air/fuel ratio for the best power or economy
depending on the demand being placed on the engine.

Hope this helps
Darrin
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline UberAsuna

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2003, 03:08:02 AM »
hummm  see because those guys i meet had that " resistor mod " they copyed the guy on ebay and it actuly works for them and i went for a ride with them and there is a little difference with and without that " resistor "  i was tryn to figure out where it would go on mine since i dont seam to have the same system  ::) ::)
It's A Zuki Thing, Dig It Sucka ;) :D ;D

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Offline ntjoe

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2003, 03:27:29 AM »
If I'm not mistaken.....and I probably am  ::) ......that particular mod to the MAF tricks the computer into reading the incoming air temperature as colder.  This has the effect of the computer not retarding (or is it advancing) the timing so the vehicle has more power.

Once again, I believe this is the case but dont flame me if I'm wrong  ;D

Good Luck! Joe
1996 Geo Tracker 4WD
1989 Maxima SE 5 Speed

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Offline UberAsuna

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2003, 07:01:54 AM »
yeah thats what its supose to do from what i understand hehe  so where is this sensor on my 1.6 8v ???  does it even exsist ???
It's A Zuki Thing, Dig It Sucka ;) :D ;D

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2003, 07:44:53 AM »
You don't have one, you have a MAP system,
same as me, (manifold air pressure) is read
and info is fed to the puter, also throttle position,
both of these, with water temp and RPM tell the
computer how much fuel and when to inject, if you
want you can advance the timing a few degrees to
improve power, but if you head engine ping, back
it off again.

I think the MAP computer system does not have
computer controled ignition.
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2003, 07:49:07 AM »
Quote
yeah thats what its supose to do from what i understand hehe  so where is this sensor on my 1.6 8v ???  does it even exsist ???


On the 8V with TBI I believe the ignition timing is controlled by the ECU but the dwell angle is controlled by the ignitor box. I don't really see the point of tricking the ECU to advance the timing, why not just swing the distributor forward a couple of degrees? You could probably use a resistor on the MAP sensor (the 8V uses mass Air Pressure not Mass Air Flow) to trick the ECU into thinking there was more air and thus richening the mixture a tad but you would have to experiment with the value. It would only work under load as the ECU would correct under other conditions using the 02 sensor reading.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2003, 07:54:53 AM by Rhinoman »
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2003, 08:03:40 AM »
When I advanced the timing after
doing the turbo it pinged like crazy,
I had to back it off until it stopped
which was about 8 or 10 Deg.
(10 is stock on TBI 8V)
so I wonder if the ECU does any
timing changes or is it limited to
minor changes?

I have a Mech
advance in the distributor, so I
think the advance is all RPM
Mech advance controled.

But I don't really know, just an
observation
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Natebert

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2003, 02:26:49 AM »
Speaking of O2 sensors...
I have a question.

I understand how they operate and their function.  But can the sensor wear out slowely?  Meaning that can the buildup on the sensor cause it to give faulty voltages occassionly thusly causing poorer performance.

I can understand a total failure and need to replace every so often.  But should people/do people change these things regularly like copper spark plugs?  

Or do they either work and then don't work, all of a sudden-like?

I've never HAD to replace one to know what to expect.

~Nate

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Offline ntjoe

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2003, 05:11:03 AM »
Honestly I have heard of them going out both ways.  In the case of them failing quickly it was usually more of a mechanical failure such as in my dad's car the base was cracked (really!), but that is not often.  Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but usually the buildup on the sensor slowly wears it out, plus the chemical reaction inside the sensor that makes it work to begin with deteriorates over time.

I hope that answered your question!

Joe

1996 Geo Tracker 4WD
1989 Maxima SE 5 Speed

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: O2 sensor question ...
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2003, 07:32:56 AM »
NTJoe is correct about the 02 sensors aging.
To quote the FSM (Fuel Injection Models):
'ECM
It detects the engine condition through the signals from the sensors, determines the most suitable ignition timing and time for electricity to flow to the primary coil and sends a signal to the ignitor. '
Obviously I was wrong before when I said I thought the igniter might control dwell angle. I guess the ECU makes fine adjustments, the presence of a mechanical advance makes implementing the 'Get you home ignition circuit'  much easier.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org