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215/75R-15 too small for lift?

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Offline BigBamBoo

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215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« on: October 06, 2015, 08:33:06 PM »
Hi gang. I am thinking of putting a Calmini 2.5" lift on my 2000 2dr Tracker. The thing is, I just put new tires on it. They are 215/75r 15 and I am wondering if they are too small for use with the lift kit.

Thanks

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Online fordem

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2015, 05:58:59 AM »
Too small?!?

I can see a tire being too big, as in - it will not clear because the lift does not provide enough clearance, but having more clearance than you need does not translate into a problem, does it?

The first lifted truck I saw (on the streets of San Diego) was a full size pickup that looked ridiculous because it had a huge lift and stock tires - and that was how the guy drove it on a day-to-day basis - he had no intention of wearing out his expensive off road tires any faster quicker than he needed to.

I see no reason why you couldn't/shouldn't run the 215/75s with the Calmini lift until such time as you can replace the tires.

Perhaps you should sit down & decide how you want to use the vehicle and then work out a "road map" to get there - why are you lifting the vehicle - the most common answer is to get more clearance, but in my mind, the reason you lift the vehicle is to get room for larger tires - the lift doesn't get you additional clearance, the larger tires do.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline beagle..t

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2015, 08:02:02 PM »
like fordem said.....never too small. it will just look funny to people, I had 225/75/15 on my 2dr for a bit until I could afford new tires. another thing is that when you put bigger you lose fuel and speed unless you change gearing to compensate for the larger tires. Im waiting for alter ego to finish there true 4" suspension lift, right now Im running 30" with 2" bl and 2" coil spacers with GV fronts to help with the weight of the winch and bumper, any pics of your tracker don't see very many 2 dr
new rig aka "the mule" 2002 tracker
V6 swap auto  ,2 dr ,2" BL,2" jeffs kit 512 gears warn hubs and 30/9.5/15 BFG AT

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Offline BigBamBoo

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 08:31:15 AM »
I guess I should have worded my original post differently. With the "smallish" tires and a lift I am worried about stability. The 2dr Trackers are kinda squirrely already.

  I was just trying to save myself some money....it will be about $2000 for the Calmini lift and installation and a new set of AT 235/75r-15's will be another $500-600+. But at that point I guess it is not that big of a deal.

Heck, the more I think about it, I wonder if I even want to put more money into it. It currently has 106,000 miles on it. It has the engine rattle at start up, but has done that since about 75,000 miles. I have tried Sea Foam, etc. No help.

 We use it for going up in hills once in awhile, hunting, trips to the shooting ranges, and around town trips.  We have other vehicles for road trips and performance (Chrysler 300 SRT8). So it is more of a standby rig.
 

 Here is a pic of the little rig....we call it "Sister Sara's Burro"...in reference to the old Clint Eastwood movie, Two Mules for Sister Sara.

 

« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 08:36:15 AM by BigBamBoo »

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Online fordem

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 12:37:13 PM »
Personally I would have thought you would lose more stability with larger tires than small - two reasons - first, you're raising the center of gravity, and second, the more rubber you have between the rim & the road, the more it will flex.

I'd say if you're looking to save money, forget about the Calmini lift - and this takes me back to the suggestion I made before - sit down and decide what it is you want to do, and how you want to do it - you don't need a $2000 2-1/2" lift kit to run 235/75R15s - in fact, I would not be surprised to find you can fit them on a stock vehicle - they might rub on the front plastics, but that's an easy fix.

If you want a lift you can do a 2" spacer lift (Low Range Off Road - or Jeff Hoepker) for a few hundred dollars, or put a few more and go OME.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline BigBamBoo

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 12:52:53 PM »
Your right...I just want more "off-road-ability". These lil rigs sit pretty low, lo clearance is always an issue.

 As for spacer lifts...yep...you can do that on the cheap. But...my buddy has a 4dr Vitara with a spacer and springs lift and it rides like crap (supper "springy" and leans bad in corners).
 And I had a Toyota Tacoma with a spacer lift and while it looked good, it really did not do well off road where a lot of flex was required. I would hit the bump stops often with it.

 So for me, a proper suspension lift would be the way to go.

 Yes, raising the center of gravity will make it lean more, but with bigger and wider tires that offsets it by having more tire contact on the road. Same applies for performance cars. Put wider tires on them and guess what??? They handle better because you have more rubber on the road.

 Anyways...thanks for the input. Not sure what I am gonna do. 

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Online fordem

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 06:05:49 PM »
First - wider tires do not help - they actually aggravate the situation.  We're not dealing with low slung, performance cars here - a wider tire puts more rubber on the road and gives you better handling by reducing side slip - do that with a vehicle with a high COG and you will increase the probability of it rolling over, raising the COG higher, increases that probability.  If you want to compensate for raising the COG, it is the "track" (the L-R spacing between the wheels) that needs to be widened, not the tires.

Let's now take a look at your buddy's Vitara - super springy and leans bad in corners - you don't provide a whole lot of information so I'm going to have to make some assumptions - let's start with my understanding of super springy - bouncy - perhaps like a bouncy castle at a child's birthday party.

If we assume he was using stock springs with spacers, the spring rate would not have changed, so for it to be described as super springy, the problem was mostly like worn or poorly chosen shocks & struts - springs support the vehicle's weight and there is always a certain amount of bounce, which is why all vehicles are fitted with struts &/or shock absorbers, those are what control the bounce.  The problem is that many people, when they choose shocks & struts in a cheap lift, choose them based on length and pay no attention to valving - if that's not your buddy's mistake, his shocks & struts were worn - or - he was also using a different spring.

Leans bad in corners - I'm betting your buddy removed the front sway bar - a fairly common modification on Vitaras because it limits flex on the front suspension, and one, by the way, that I do not recommend on daily driven vehicles.

The Tacoma that kept hitting the bump stops - if you lift a vehicle you increase the distance the suspension has to travel before coming into contact with the bump stops - so you really should not have been hitting the bump stops if all that had been done was adding spacers - something else had to have been changed.

I get the point - you don't want a "cobbled" together lift kit - you want something that has been properly designed & engineered - it's your money it's your choice - go with the Calmini if that's what you want.

The spacer kit from Low Range Off Road includes spring spacers, strut spacers (it reuses the OE struts, which are matched to the OE springs), plus all the hardware to refit the suspension brace, and you can buy it with or without longer rear shocks - I have not used it personally, but I can assure you, it has been well thought through - it's not a cobbled together DIY lift.

What I run is the OME - reputedly the world's best - springs, shocks & struts - all engineered to work together - gives me a small lift (approx. 30mm), increased load capacity, and longer travel on all four corners - less than $800 from Low Range Off Road.

Do your research, OME are among a very small number of manufacturers who can supply struts & shocks, tuned to the specific vehicle/spring combination and that actually have longer travel than stock - that travel is what translates into flex.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 06:46:13 PM by fordem »
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara
'16 APK416 Vitara
'21 A6G415 Jimny

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Offline beagle..t

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 09:09:21 PM »
I got jeffs lift and removed the sway bar and used it as a dd and IMO it sucked wife hated driving it wandered all over the road, so put sway bar back and its better now , not as much flex off roading but nicer to drive on the street.  Now that im running AT tires its a lot better than when I was running mudders. so this is what it looks like with the mudders  on. Nice looking tracker and love the hard top im in envy wish I had one they are very hard to come by used. heres mine
new rig aka "the mule" 2002 tracker
V6 swap auto  ,2 dr ,2" BL,2" jeffs kit 512 gears warn hubs and 30/9.5/15 BFG AT

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Offline BigBamBoo

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2015, 07:05:11 AM »
Mine was originally a soft top (still have it in the garage) but I did not like how noisy it was. So I bought the hardtop from Rally Tops. Info here: http://www.rallytops.com/gm/chevy-tracker.html

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Offline nprecon

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2015, 08:16:34 PM »
X2 on the Old Man Emu suspension and retaining the your front sway bar.  For the $800 you will get a slight suspension lift and an improved ride and handling. 

My father in-law just loaded his 4-door '02 Tracker down with a weekend's worth of camping gear two weeks ago.  His back seats were laid down and he had it loaded to above the windows.   He complained to me when I caught up with him at our camp ground that "his Tracker was riding on the rear axle" with it fully loaded with the gear.  This is the primary reason OME designed their spring, strut and shock suspension system.  OME's springs allow your vehicle to be loaded for the "out back" without fully compressing your springs.  They have a different spring rate than stock and are slightly taller.

I've had one of OME's suspension systems under my 4-door Tracker for about three or four years now.  I also have a grill guard on it, a front skid, a transfer case skid, a fuel skid and I replaced the stock rocker panels with thick steel tubing, so I have added close to 200#s of steel to my Tracker's over-all weight.  Even with these add-ons, it still sits about an inch taller than stock.  I have also ran some Cooper 30" tires for over two years.  The OME suspension is sufficient for the 30" tires.  I have no more tire rub than I did when running 235 series tires, which is only rubbing on the rear of the front frame rails during full lock turning.  This isn't an issue. From the bottom of my frame to the ground is right at 10" now, which is 2" higher than stock.  So I've gained 1" from the tires and 1" from the OME suspension. Even with the longer wheel base 4-door Tracker, I have yet to "drag" over any obstacle on the trails I have taken it on.  It handles very well on the hard ball and in turns.  It is still very enjoyable to drive.

 "We use it for going up in hills once in awhile, hunting, trips to the shooting ranges, and around town trips.  We have other vehicles for road trips and performance (Chrysler 300 SRT8). So it is more of a standby rig."

For what you described you are wanting (and quality), I too would recommend an OME suspension system versus the Calmini suspension system primarily because you are wanting an improved ride, a slight lift and good handling.  In addition, the installation of an OME suspension is straight forward and you shouldn't even have to deal with any camber issues after the install.  OME factored the slight change of camber into their strut design. It is a designed suspension system, not a set of parts thrown together.  OME struts also have a longer piston travel and the shaft on their strut is thicker as well.  Their nitrogen shocks are built just as bullet proof.

The OME suspension AND a new set of tires will cost you less than just the Calmini suspension alone.

For about half the money of the OME suspension, and you opt for Jeff Hoepker's coil spacer lift, be sure to purchase some quality new struts and also replace your strut mounts at the same time.  Coil spacer lift, plus new struts, strut mounts and rear shocks  would run right about $400ish.  I ran Jeff's coil spacer lift for about three years and never experienced any problems with the quality.  As Fordem stated, his coil spacers are tried and true.

Though, for the improved ride and the ability to carry more weight without excessive spring sag... OME is the way to go.  I have right at 55K miles on mine now and they are still going strong.

Add a a Lock Right mechanical locker into the rear axle differential and you will be amazed at where your Tracker will take you.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 08:25:59 PM by nprecon »
'02 Chezuki Tracker with a 2 Liter and 5spd.  It works for me!!!

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Offline captwoody

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Re: 215/75R-15 too small for lift?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2015, 10:00:42 AM »

2" lowrange/jeffs kit with 235's before I went bigger with sway bar worked great I just went bigger tires 31x10.5x15's
Just a Newbie crushing one rock at a time,2x4 rocksliders,lowrange 2"suspension lift 2" body lift and skid plates,5000 winch,towbar,grand vitara rear springs,100watt lights,ARB compressor /air up kit,ARB RD209 LOCKER,Roof rack,tow hitch, General AT2 255/70/15 or 31/10.5/15 Mud tires , 5.12 Gear swap,off road tent trailer,LED Lights