Hello Guest

1.6 16v Trouble....

  • 18 Replies
  • 4362 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2009, 07:09:41 PM »
ill watch for the results....
the dealer does not have a tool, persay that will test an ecu. most shop manuals will state to replace with a  known good unit.
again, i don't think the ecm is the issue. don waist money trying a code reader again.. not that important.

*

Offline JohnnyWop

  • 11
  • 0
  • Gender: Male
  • 87 Samurai - 1.6 16v, Lockright Lockers, 4.16:1
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »
Rhinoman:
How would throttle cable freeplay cause bog-out?

Zukwrench:
I know the dealer wont touch my rig but can they check my ECU if I carry it into them?
I do not have a code reader or scan tool, so to see if the O2 light went out, I'll have to rent one again monday.
I converted the harness myself, I know enough about electronics to follw most diagrams and most instructions, but I dont really know much...
I'll get back to you on the TPS & injestor readings, I haven't had the time yet (holidays....eh).


As I have been down this road before, let me tell you that there could be allot of time involved in figuring it out.
But lets try!
I will try to answer any questions that you may have.
If you post the results I will try to help you until you get it going.


Thank You!  :)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 02:54:37 PM by JohnnyWop »
'87 Suzuki Samurai
- 1.6 16v (1998, OBD-II)
- 5 speed, 4x4
- Lockright Lockers, Front & Rear
- 4.16:1
- Rear disc-brakes
- 5" lift
- 33" Super Swamper TSL's
- Custom bumpers & Warn 8k winch

Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2009, 06:33:31 PM »
the dealer is not going to want to touch it. with a labor rate of around $100 an hour, depending on where you live, you will probably have a empty bank account before you have a running vehicle.

Here is the straight up. Allot of these guys that convert your harness have copied someone else or had an experienced mechanic/ engineer tell them what to do.

As I have been down this road before, let me tell you that there could be allot of time involved in figuring it out.

But lets try!

do you have a scan tool. not just a code reader but a tool that can show you live data (ie: tps, cts, maf, fuel trim, etc)?This tool could get us there allot quicker.

based on what has been said I'm thinking?

is the o2 sensor heater circuit code gone now?

Put a volt meter on the tps. it has three wires that i want to test. with the connector disconnected check at the connector with the key on engine off test the 3 wires for 1) 5 volts, 2) 0 volts and 3) 0 volts.

plug the connector back in and back probe. again, key on engine off. you should have 1) 5 volts, 2) approximately .5 volts, in the idle position, and 3) less that .1 volts

if that is all good, stay on wire #2, the approximately .5 volts at idle. have an assistant slowly open the throttle. The voltage should climb to approximately 4.0 volts at full throttle with a nice smooth sweep.

if that all tests as described, my next thought is,

unplug an injector and turn the ignition on, engine off. measure the voltage available on the battery side, i think this is the blue/ black wire.
once you have found the battery side reconnect the injector and back probe the connector. with you volt meter hot lead on the back probe at the injector, and the ground lead at the positive battery post. (yes i said negative volt meter lead to positive post.)
start the engine and accelerate to the point of hesitation or bog down. What is the volt meter reading? This is a voltage drop test. Assuming that you red using a set up similar to stock with a main relay, I would expect the volt meter to read less that .8 volts. If your reading is higher the PCM is "laying down" to protect itself.

you can check the vol;tage drop on you grounds the same way. positive lead to the ground side of the load, and negative lead to the negative battery post.
If you are not clear on these test feel free to ask. I don't know what your level of understanding electronics is. I will try to answer any questions that you may have.
NOTE, YOU CANNOT TEST THRU A ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNIT, ONLY THE WIRING TO AND FROM IT.

If you post the results I will try to help you until you get it going.

Or, if you live in southern California I can give you a quote for what I think it will take to diagnosis the problem at your home. I do accept side work from time to time.

Oh, I seriously doubt that swapping any parts is going to resolve this.

*

Offline Rhinoman

  • 4502
  • 36
  • Gender: Male
  • Bend it, Break it, Fix it
    • Rhinoman
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2009, 04:49:19 PM »
Check that the throttle cable has the correct amount of freeplay and that the Throttle Position Sensor is correctly adjusted.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

*

Offline JohnnyWop

  • 11
  • 0
  • Gender: Male
  • 87 Samurai - 1.6 16v, Lockright Lockers, 4.16:1
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2009, 12:48:09 PM »
Ok, so I replaced my spark plug wires and my O2 sensor. It actually runs much better now....
However, it still bogs out when I stomp on the gas so bad that it dies....
How do I test to see if my timing is advancing?
And how much will the dealer charge me to check the ECU?

You all have been so helpful.... Keep the ideas coming!!!!

Also Here's some answers:

No black smoke when I accelerate, but some water out the pipe....
I am using a steel ford expedition fuel filter, between the stock Sammy tank, and the pump.
I converted the harness myself, but for the fist time.
'87 Suzuki Samurai
- 1.6 16v (1998, OBD-II)
- 5 speed, 4x4
- Lockright Lockers, Front & Rear
- 4.16:1
- Rear disc-brakes
- 5" lift
- 33" Super Swamper TSL's
- Custom bumpers & Warn 8k winch

Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 07:19:23 PM »
OK, Ive tried to follow and I wold like to put my 2 cents in.

you said you have a front o2 sensor heater circuit and evap pressure sensor codes. if erased the codes will reset as soon as the ignition is turned on.  The logic senses an open circuit. Neither code will cause a running issue. But tracing the harness may lead you to the source of the driveability problem.

the hesitation can be caused by allot of different issues. do you get black smoke when you are trying to accelerate?

when you talk about the fuel system, plastic and filter were mentioned, If a factory style 87 samurai filter is used is it on the suction or pressure side of the pump?

IF YOU HAVE A PLASTIC FUEL FILTYER ON THE PRESSURE SIDE OF THE FUEL PUMP YOU ARE DRIVING A TIME BOMB! The plastic filter is not designed to hold pressure, especially not 40 to 80 psi.

i think you are using the original Sammy tank and have an external pump, (with the filter between the tank and pump). If the pump can suck air due to a cracked hose, bad hose connection, or rusted pickup tube in the tank, air will compress and cause the symptoms that you are experiencing. (still give the appropriate gauge readings) if there is air entering it is likely the pump will be very noisy.

no speed sensor signal will not cause hesitation upon rev up.this signal is used for egr and ignition timing control.

Who has converted the harness for you? I'm currently doing an obd2, 98 model year, and i will tell you that there is allot more to consider that there has been on all the obd1 (95 and earlier) Ive done.

use the front o2 sensor and a meter to tell you if it is rich or lean. hook a volt meter to the shielded wire and measure the voltage during the incident.  .5 volt and above is rich, .4 and below is lean. upon accell i would expect to see about .7volt.
Or if you can get a scan tool you and watch the o2 sensor and fuel trims.

lets start there and if that doesn't get it post me the results!

*

Offline mrfuelish

  • *
  • 2862
  • 13
  • Gender: Male
  • you must have a perception problem.
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 12:49:41 PM »
he may have coil packs instead of wires and also the vss not being hooked up will sometimes make it run bad and have bad mpg.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

*

Offline Zukipilot

  • 7160
  • 25
  • Gender: Male
  • stretch the limits of reality!!!
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 11:56:31 AM »
I had the same issue and after taking it to my mechanic... he found that the run of the miss plug wires I put in was arcing over to the valve cover and causing the motor to do exactly what you described. We installed dome expensive (extra insulated) wires and I never had that issue again.

Zig
Zukipilot
'92 Liberty Overland Sidekick

*

Offline mrfuelish

  • *
  • 2862
  • 13
  • Gender: Male
  • you must have a perception problem.
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 09:06:59 AM »
pull the hose on it and look for fuel or smell the hose if you can, they do go bad or get sticky from the new fuel.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

*

Offline JohnnyWop

  • 11
  • 0
  • Gender: Male
  • 87 Samurai - 1.6 16v, Lockright Lockers, 4.16:1
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 10:55:25 PM »

That's probably the small diaphragm in the front of the fuel rail with the vacuum hose on it, I think that is supposed to do that.


No, that's the fuel pressure regulator.
'87 Suzuki Samurai
- 1.6 16v (1998, OBD-II)
- 5 speed, 4x4
- Lockright Lockers, Front & Rear
- 4.16:1
- Rear disc-brakes
- 5" lift
- 33" Super Swamper TSL's
- Custom bumpers & Warn 8k winch

*

Offline mrfuelish

  • *
  • 2862
  • 13
  • Gender: Male
  • you must have a perception problem.
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 10:26:05 PM »
That's probably the small diaphragm in the front of the fuel rail with the vacuum hose on it, I think that is supposed to do that.
1987,1988,1988,1990 samurai's,  1953 m38a1,  1996 x-90,blue.1996 x-90 red.1994 2 door tracker.   only Dead Fish go with the flow.                No Hairy Nosed Wombats were ran over on the trail today.       My ZUK is Xenophobic.

*

Offline wildgoody

  • *
  • 8124
  • 67
  • Gender: Male
  • Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile
    • Project Turbo SideKick
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 10:06:25 PM »
Pinch off the return line, see if it stalls the engine or runs better.

I bumped the pressure to 80 before the TBI injector couldnt over come
the increase in pressure. This was when I was playing with the turbo tuning

Wild
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

*

Offline JohnnyWop

  • 11
  • 0
  • Gender: Male
  • 87 Samurai - 1.6 16v, Lockright Lockers, 4.16:1
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 08:55:33 PM »

That's odd, fuel pressure should remain stable or drop slightly, but not spike, tho
50 PSI isn't really enough to cause too much trouble, unless the pintle is having
trouble lifting in the injectors from the pressure increase

Wild


Huh.... So how can I check this?
'87 Suzuki Samurai
- 1.6 16v (1998, OBD-II)
- 5 speed, 4x4
- Lockright Lockers, Front & Rear
- 4.16:1
- Rear disc-brakes
- 5" lift
- 33" Super Swamper TSL's
- Custom bumpers & Warn 8k winch

*

Offline wildgoody

  • *
  • 8124
  • 67
  • Gender: Male
  • Turbocharged 150HP 1.6L 8V 93MPH 1/4 mile
    • Project Turbo SideKick
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 04:55:43 PM »
That's odd, fuel pressure should remain stable or drop slightly, but not spike, tho
50 PSI isn't really enough to cause too much trouble, unless the pintle is having
trouble lifting in the injectors from the pressure increase

Wild
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

*

Offline JohnnyWop

  • 11
  • 0
  • Gender: Male
  • 87 Samurai - 1.6 16v, Lockright Lockers, 4.16:1
Re: 1.6 16v Trouble....
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 04:14:13 PM »
also check your fuel line size(has to be large enough) and take out the little plastic one way valve by the tank.

Yeah, I did all that. However, I did notice that the fuel pressure spikes to 50 psi when I nail the gas. Is that normal? Otherwise, the fuel pressure during idle and OFF is great. holds pressure for 10 hours after shut-off.
'87 Suzuki Samurai
- 1.6 16v (1998, OBD-II)
- 5 speed, 4x4
- Lockright Lockers, Front & Rear
- 4.16:1
- Rear disc-brakes
- 5" lift
- 33" Super Swamper TSL's
- Custom bumpers & Warn 8k winch