Amy gets a Lock-Right

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Online TioPick

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Amy gets a Lock-Right
« on: May 13, 2017, 07:26:31 AM »
Amy is a Red 4dr 2001 Chevy (Chevuki) Tracker, auto, 4X4, V6, 162+K.  I had it in my head that the original rear end had excessive play and I found a donor.  When dealing with the rear end it seemed like the perfect time to also do a locker.  I will be updating this series as the project progresses.  Eventually the pictured Suzuki V6 will also get swapped into Amy.  She smokes (so do I) and uses a little oil.  She came from the OK panhandle and has no rust.  I live near the far south tip of Texas (Mercedes) and go out to Boca Chica east of Brownsville to fish.  I will also post some pictures of the SpaceX facilities as they progress.

Up to this point the only thing worth mentioning is that I could not get the 3rd member to separate from the axle housing.  I beat on it and used bad words.  Finally a friend came by and he (does not own it) applied some considerably harder blows to separate it.  I have no idea where the white sealant came from but it did not want to let go.  Fortunately the 3rd member protruded past the housing slightly on the top side allowing a surface to apply the chisel.  I hope I do not have this much trouble when I work on the one under the car.

I had been reading and rereading the Powertrax Lock-right booklets.  I will also be calling them on Monday.  I wondered why I needed to remove the ring gear if all the work in the differential case is done from the other side.  I was sure that once I had things out in the open, it would be clear.  The pins for the spider gears set down in the ring gear (see pictures) ans so can not be removed without first removing the ring gear.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 08:36:56 AM »
The white sealant that was extremely hard to remove sounds 5200 (stands for 5200 places you do not want to get it on).  It is a bonding sealant that comes white or black.

Putting a Lock-rite in correctly takes experience.  If it is off just a little, it will either not lock enough, or throw your vehicle as it holds and then unlocks with a bang.  I tried and tried moving shims trying to get one functioning good enough to accept its drawbacks.  Those who have them set up correctly seem to be happy with their use (they bought it and are going to use it  ???).  If you want to enjoy it I really suggest having an experience shop install it correctly, and save yourself time and frustration of redoing it several times. 
Good luck with your locker.
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

Online TioPick

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 09:57:32 AM »
Update to Amy gets a lock-right.  More updates to follow.  Here is the donor axle 3rd member disassembled and partially cleaned up.  The top edge has been dressed with a flat file to be sure there are no burrs to interfere with sealing at installation.  Also to not snag any of my delicate finger tips.  I used a drill bit to clean out the holes so that when I put it in place that hopefully no little bits of old sealant will migrate to the sealing surface.

Yesterday I also talked to the Lock-Right folks.  With these Suzuki rear ends it is basically a crap shoot.  When the differential is assembled there is no proper way to get in and measure clearances to see if it is all correct.   EXCEPT one possibility.  Po' folks got Po's ways.  Assembly instructions call for applying a light grease all over the place which I interpret to be something like Lubriplate or this other engine assemble grease I have.  Prior to doing that and after a through cleaning we are  going to assemble everything dry and with putty used like Plastigage for main and rod bearings.  This is to measure the clearance of the pinion shafts that formerly held the spider gears in the Lock-Right drivers.  1st "problem" is that acceptable clearance ia 140 to 170 thou's.  Plastigage does not come that think.  Playdough does but may stick to the shafts and / or the drivers.  Plan A here is to use putty designed for holding pictures and poster board to walls.  After cutting and working it with fingers I intend to deal with the stickiness with WD-40.  Measuring the resulting thickness will also be interesting as the opposite of the pinion shaft holes are the driver teeth..  I believe I will have to establish a flat bar across the top of the driver and use a depth measurement.  This is done with everything torques down.

HOWEVER, Problem #2 is that I have not wrapped my mind around what that clearance will tell me or how to deal with it if not.  Someone correct me if I am wrong (I see wrong thins IMHO on you tube).  The Lock-right springs and pins are to push the drivers apart and engage the side gears.  Likewise when the outside wheel needs to over-run they will allow the driver teeth to skip over the teeth in the side gears.  If the shafts are too tight in the drivers then there can not be movement from the springs and no clicky clicky.  Granted the adjustment is the shim washers on the outside of the side gears.  Too thick and no play and no clicky clicky.  too loose and perhaps the lock-right spring would not have sufficient force to keep drivers engaged with side gears when under power.  Measuring play in pinion shafts seems a little bass ackwards approach.  More updates to follow as stated above.

Other hint at this stage is to use a concrete chisel to separate the 3rd member from the axle housing AFTER dulling the sharp edge.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 06:43:12 PM »
same day but more info.  I got underneath and sure enough the same glue was used on the existing axle.  The fuel tank and skid pan etc would prohibit me beating on the 3rd member in exactly the same way as I did with an axle on the work bench.  IT WILL succumb to being beat upon by rubber mallet and use of 2X4 and hammer.  Patience and bad words will be used.  I should not admit it here but I will be seeing if possible to pull the axles without disturbing the brake backing plates.  I have a little time before I jump into that.  A lot of getting ready.

Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 07:28:25 PM »
The easy way to break the third loose from the axle housing, when the axle housing is secured (in the vehicle), is to put a jack under the snout of the third and start jacking. It should pop the third loose from the housing fairly easily.
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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 07:57:23 AM »
same day but more info.  I got underneath and sure enough the same glue was used on the existing axle.  The fuel tank and skid pan etc would prohibit me beating on the 3rd member in exactly the same way as I did with an axle on the work bench.  IT WILL succumb to being beat upon by rubber mallet and use of 2X4 and hammer.  Patience and bad words will be used.  I should not admit it here but I will be seeing if possible to pull the axles without disturbing the brake backing plates.  I have a little time before I jump into that.  A lot of getting ready.
On first gen Trackers the bearing retaining plate bolts also hold the brake backing plate in place.  It has not been much of a problem getting axles out w/o pulling brakes. 
And I use Fordem's suggestion when pulling diff's.
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 08:11:37 AM »
One the first gen's, like you say, you don't have to pull the brakes, in order to get the axleshaft pulled out. I do have to take the little rubber piece loose, that holds the parking brake cable to the trailing arm, in order to get enough slack to be able to pull the axleshaft out enough to clear the carrier.
BTW, if you were referencing the jack under the third method for breaking the third loose, that was my suggestion, not fordem's. ;)
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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 11:19:27 AM »
I was starting to wonder about that - to the point where I actually scrolled through the thread to see what I had suggested...
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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 03:05:30 PM »
Thank all of Y'all.  I will see about using black tarp straps to hold backing plate (just doing whatever to get parking brake lever out of the way.  When searching old tool boxes yesterday I found (besides my farmer sockets) spring clips that were common back in the day for holding brake shoe hyd cylinders compressed while working.  I suspect I will be replacing the rear shoes  as well as front pads. the fronts are getting thin anyhow.

Offline DOWNEASTER

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 06:40:36 PM »
Hey guys, I have been here and done that and GAVE UP LOL. For like $150 bucks(or less) you can have the fine craftsmen at  TRAIL TOUGH set your thirds up with a lockright and know its setup right .But beware a lockright isnt for much street use,they really arent.Your tires will be toast before you know it... lol. I run lockrights in both front and rear with 32"BFG KM2's,with the ALTER EGO 4.5" suspension kit plus CALMINI'S 3"body lift.AWESUM SETUP.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 08:10:25 PM »
Downeaster, I just sent an email off to Trail Tough.  Sometimes it is not what they do so much as knowing what to do.  However they are 2310 miles from here according to Rand McNally.  Unless I can find one of my shrimp hauling buddies going through there, it could be pricey.  I also understand that I will most likely nnot want to use this as a DD driver with the locker in...  Don't think I could put a warn hub on one side in the back do you?  Never know though, the next day after my PU blew a head gasket I drove my backhoe to Church but then bought the Tracker.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 09:21:34 AM »
Well I'm  in the eastern corner of MAINE,and this was done 8/2015,shipping for a complete rebuild kit for the rear & lock right plus a ring & pinion set ,with my third was $60 to Trail Tough.They get $75 per hour(as of 8/2015) and took them two hours to not only set up the lock right but a new set of gears (5:85)&new bearings for $150 plus $58.76 return shipping.If I remember right the turn around was aweek. Truly worth the cost as you will destroy R & P sets if not setup right.Plus the Lock right was completely setup too.I was so happy I sent them the very same items for the front diff too. I have a cast steel front housing  so everything weighted in pretty much the same.The cost  for the front unit setup ($150)plus shipping $55.60 as I removed the stock R & P and so cut a few pounds off the box weight.I still have both sale receipts from them so,this isnt a guess.  I totally understand most guys will scoff at these prices.For me,I thought it a wise investment plus the  "piece of mind" that the diffs are setup by Pro' s, made it that much easier to wheel alone or be the trail breaker..lol     

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 06:44:33 PM »
They are still only $75 / hr shop rate and estimate 1 hr to do set up.  Also estimate only $50 shipping for the differential case only (that would be $100 round trip).  I think I will go ahead and measure pinion shaft clearance as suggested by Lock-Right....  Other things got my attention today but I have hay fields cut.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 08:52:34 AM »
I was starting to wonder about that - to the point where I actually scrolled through the thread to see what I had suggested...
One the first gen's, like you say, you don't have to pull the brakes, in order to get the axleshaft pulled out. I do have to take the little rubber piece loose, that holds the parking brake cable to the trailing arm, in order to get enough slack to be able to pull the axleshaft out enough to clear the carrier.
BTW, if you were referencing the jack under the third method for breaking the third loose, that was my suggestion, not fordem's. ;)
My mistake in who suggested what a lot of us do without thinking that others may not know how much easier it is.  While both of you are adept at dispensing common sense, I have a lot of experience with common mistakes.
93 Tracker,XL7 springs & 1" raised spring pads in front with YJ springs in back, home built bumpers rear & front (w/winch), 2" x 4" rock tubes,  ARB front & rear, converted Sami rear to IFS, 33x12.5x15  aluminum rims, roll cage, 2.7L w/5 speed auto.

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Re: Amy gets a Lock-Right
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 06:09:42 PM »
Sad day in  Muddville... or maybe it is for the better.  I so want my lock-right to work and work as it is supposed to.  At one point here I considered scratching it for a spooler... or just shimming the lock-right up like a spooler (maybe welding the drivers together?).  The instructions just say to assemble and check.  Others here have advised me that 1 I might not be happy with it no matter and 2 I should at least get it set up by pro's.  Fortunately someone also pointed me to Trail Tough in Medford OR.  I can send them the differential case and they will set it up for me.  Still I have "no money" and really wanted to do it myself.  I called the Lock-right folks and talked to a rep.  He was not much help on obtaining the 25 degrees of freeplay at the drive shaft flange they say is necessary for proper operation.  With extensive questioning by my he admitted that I could assemble the Lock-right  (dry) with putty on the pinion shafts (if I understood correctly) and torque things down much like you would use plasti-gage.  After disassembly I should be looking at clearances of between 145 thou and 170 thou.  I used stickum putty one would use to attach posters to a wall and applied light oil to prevent sticking.

I had an uncle that was a tool and die maker by trade and a natural born square head (as we call them here in Texas).  In years gone by (he has since passed) he had approved my measuring techniques.  Besides my hands were not shaking particularly today either.  Still the readings I was getting were not uniform on the 3 spots.  Second measurements did closely replicate the first ones but they were in the range of 30 thou, 40 thou, 60 thou and 80 thou for the shafts.  Nothing in the range of 145 to 170.  I am sure that my technique is questionable but I have run low on wise old Tool Makers (and wise old blacksmiths for that matter).  I had mich'ed the spacer shims on top and bottom first.  Each side gear has 2 washers, one a 13 thou and the other a 27 thou for a total of 30 thou on each side gear.  As much as I very much want thing s to just magically work I am forced to be an adult and  listen to other people's experiences.  Nothing else makes much sense

Especially as the Lock-right has its own personality (that I am not sure my wife will appreciate) on a good day.  Next step is to construct an acceptable box for shipping.  Estimate is $50 shipping each way plus $75 shop rate for setup of differential case.  Supposedly it will be the best it can be and will last.  I will not be harsh on it, just sometimes in soft sand.... in soft sand without a support vehicle for 30 miles.

On top of that we were using my John Deere 2440 with a wheel rake to rake hay when it sprang a Hyd leak on a main line.  The fluid that has pumped up is $20 / gallon besides me getting under and identifying the problem and replacing the line.  So my buddy decided that we had done all the raking that was going to need done and went and got his tractor and baler.  About half way though the job he had a flat on the baler.  I was already on my way "across" (to Mexico) in the Tracker with a buddy that needed to pickup more meds (Bleep the VA)..  we decided the Lord had decided that we had done enough for one day.  Maybe I will pour a drink... or 2
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