Rear Axle ratios

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Offline TioPick

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Rear Axle ratios
« on: April 20, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »
I recently purchased a 2001 Chevy Tracker ZR-2 4DR 4WD V6 2.5L  I am bringing it back into better shape.  The rear end is making noise under power, not when coasting.   I found a local Yunk Yard (I am on the Mexican Border in far south Texas) with a 2003 Tracker LT 2WD..  I believe it was a V6 and is also an Auto.  When I went to https://www.driverside.com/specs/chevrolet-tracker-2001-3263-7492-0?style_id=18859  It lists both mine and the 2003 as having 4.87 ratios.  (stick shifts list as 5.11).  But I go to ebay and junk yard sites they call them 4.88.  I am not real sure that I can get under and count and tell the difference between 4.87 and 4.88.  At least they are consistent.  I also do not know how to adapt if one is all ABS and the other not.

Car is high mileage and I do not  think well maintained so I have obtained a "low" mileage (57K instead of 167K) Suzuki 2.5L V6 to swap... after I change the water pump and all the timing chain stuff while the engine is out.  Sort of ounce of prevention thing as it has been sitting and maybe the oil is gummy behind the tensioners or the water pump seals just plain old and hard.
Thanks for any help..  Tio Pick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 05:51:05 PM »
To all intents & purposes  4.8 = 4.87 - you may also come across it listed as 4.88, as far as I know it's actually 4.875:1 - if you're just swapping the third member, then ABS should not be an issue - the tone ring & sensors are out near the wheels, and not a part of the third member - where you can get caught is if you're replacing the rear wheel bearings, the tone ring is a part of the bearing retainer which has to be cut off and replaced as a part of the process.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

Offline TioPick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 12:00:25 PM »
well I got a younger friend to help me and we brought the "new" axle home today.  It has no recognizable sign of ABS.  I have to get back under mine and check.  If mine has ABS I suppose it would be best to transfer to the new axle so as to not confuse the system... unless I can figure out how to make the car think it never had ABS.  However I AM going fishing again next week (up the beach and around some 2 tracks to where I want to go.  Then I can proceed with next steps.  Guess I might first put it on jacks and confirm that the 4 WD is engaging.  At least I can cross off worries about ratios, Thanks

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 01:11:54 PM »
Easy way to know if your car has ABS - open the hood of your car and find the brake master cylinder - follow the plumbing - does it go to a large device mounted on the inner fender along side the brake master or does it go down directly to the driver's side front wheel?

If it goes directly to the wheel there's no ABS.

If you do have ABS just swap the third members.

'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

Offline TioPick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 06:34:47 PM »
Neither has ABS which surprises me a little as mine is the top model.  My 87 PU has ABS.  Anyhow when it comes down to it, I am swapping  3rd members anyhow.  The "new one is missing a brake drum, and bunch of brake parts and some of the wheel studs.  By the time I were to go through the steps to drop the carrier, bring the new one up to spec and install it I am better off going this way.  Thanks for the encouragement.

I was going to jack it up and determine if the 4WD is engaging especially since sometimes the light does not come on.  However I sometimes I also have to wiggle the shifter for it to realize it is in park so it will start.  Gotta check connections all over the place but it may lose that "safety" feature.  But when I was about to jack it up I got called to do a little backhoe work.  Tomorrow it will be in the air.

I seem to have forgotten many of my little tip things and having to relearn but thing when replacing a bearing you can take the outer / race and cut a slit in it (call that 6:00 and then weld a piece of flat across from 3 to 9 and use it to seat the new race and / or seal.  If you do not have your own metal cutting band saw and welder, I can not imagine a welding shop charging much to do that for you.  For that matter welding a cross piece inside the race can help get it out (especially if you weld a nut for the slide hammer on it first).  Accepted slippery sauce for Blacksmiths and old farm equipment repairs is to mix 50-50 acatone and either Marvel Mystery Oil or Auto Tranny Fluid in a squirt bottle.  If you have to use heat, try to only heat one side of nut or? to yellow and when it cools to black heat, squirt the slippery sauce and watch it get sucked in.  IIRC, my wife is always pointing out stuff that I should remember but am slow to these days.

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 08:08:28 AM »
Let me start by encouraging you NOT to disable the neutral safety switch - I'm generally not in favor of disabling safety features, and in fact have spent many hours in my youth, "re-enabling" safety features that my colleagues had bypassed on equipment that we were tasked with maintaining.

The four wheel drive on these vehicles is probably a little different to what you're accustomed to - they are fitted with a "shift-on-the-fly" front free wheel mechanism that is integral to the front differential assembly - it is normal for the 4WD light to take a second or two to come on after four wheel drive is selected - the light is controlled by the ECU and will not come on until the ECU senses that the free wheel mechanism has engaged.

Regarding the bearing pullers, etc. - Harbor Freight - not the best quality tools, but for occasional use, generally adequate, and reasonably priced.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

Offline TioPick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 08:38:36 AM »
Mr Fordum, I will follow your advice on the disabling of the transmission / start switch... at least for as long as it keeps working...  Maybe because I am lazy.  The ONE cardinal safety rule we have around here is Safety Glasses.  Pretty much everything else will heal or grow back or you can live without that digit anyhow...  The way you can identify a green crew in the oil patch is that they all have all of their own fingers.  Especially angle grinder shields have a short life.  When I need to tap or cut threads I go buy real taps and dies but I have sets for a long time that are used to just chase threads.  I am well acquainted with HF and now we also have a Northern Tool here in the Rio Grand Valley (far South Texas).

If I ever have the money I am tempted to convert to the all gear Toyota transfer case.  There is something about shoving a lever and having something move.  When I met my wife (this one) she had never shifted a gear.  She learned on my truck and then I sent her to truck driving school and we went over the road. We no longer do that but on her car and the one before she ordered a stick (hard to get now).  Granted that low / high range and splitting  gears on a 13 spd is air shifted but we are suspicious of moving an electrical switch to activate a pump to engage and axle.  Sand and salt water seems to be a harsh environment for all these things.  Maybe buy lots of dielectric grease for the contacts and connections?  Thanks for the reply, Tio Pick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 07:27:58 PM »
The transfer case is lever shifted, chain driven one, and the front axle free wheel mechanism can be "fixed" so that it operates like the old school "get out and turn the dial on the hub" ones.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

Offline TioPick

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Re: Rear Axle ratios
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 08:16:03 AM »
Mr Fordum, This morning I did get out and put the car up on jack stands and checked to see that 4WD does in fact engage.  For many many years country people did live with 2WD PU's and such (and V W Bugs) but they were not usually 4 door heavy trucks.

Might I also address any "younger" readers that might not be experienced enough on their own to know when to take my safety comments with a grain of salt.  This time I married an old maid Lutheran School Teacher who had not been around rednecks.  I and usually with friends would off load or move something or do something questionable and afterwards I would say "Well, we did it and no one got hurt".  At first she thought that was just one of those sayings...  Nope, she learned we really meant it and that was a big factor in the successful accomplishment of a job.   I used to hang out on a Blacksmith chat room ( Anvilfire, it is still there ) and one day a lady came on with some questions.  I think she was looking for info to sue someone.  Apparently her husband had a grinding or cut off wheel on an angle grinder come apart and shatter.  She did not say but he must have had an injury.  We asked if he was wearing his leather apron, gloves and safety glasses.  Also had he thumped the wheel on a table to see if it rang ok or was possibly defective.  These things all matter and are your responsibility.  One of my friends is always getting in my case about tripping hazards in the shop with extension cords, air hoses, welding leads and O/A hoses all under foot.   Speaking of injury, I one time had a mishap with a T post driver that required a couple of stitches in the top of my head.  Not being able to afford an ER, I went into the VA out patient clinic.  They asked me what happened.  I told them that I thought my wife had said stand up but she had said shut up.  They told me that they did not believe me but I assured them that was my story and I was sticking to it.  Hold my beer a minute