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2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed

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Offline DOWNEASTER

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 08:05:37 PM »
Well,I also have  Altered Ego Motorsports 4.5" suspension lift along with a 3"body lift. In normal street driving there isnt that much difference,but off roading were your piching and rolling you see or feel the difference,its not as bad as one mite think.And i run BFG.KM2 32 x11.50 as well.My mpg is like 20-23  at 45-50 mph highway(with the 5:85 R & P),tho im not sure offroad mpg i know i can wheel all day plus on a tank were my buddys in full size trucks are hitn there 5gal cans after burning their full tanks.   

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Offline JollyZuk

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 07:34:25 PM »
You have a leg up on a lot of us...you can just find a steel housing from an XL7 and it is a direct swap into your Gen2.  Ok, I just re-read thru the thread...what gearing do you currently have?

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Offline 40nTheFloor

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 04:31:21 PM »
JollyZuk - Altered Ego Motorsports told me it would take their 4.5" lift and possibly even a 1" body lift to fit this tire (30.6" OD) with 3.75" BS.  I do not think I could be comfortable with this vehicle possessing such a high center of gravity.  This has caused me to give greater attention to the 265/70-R15 (29.6" h x 10.4" w).  Most people selling the OME hardware for these vehicles tell me the 1.25-1.5" of lift it provides can clear a 29" tire.  This seems reasonable to me because, I have 235/75-R15 winter tires on OE steel wheels mounted on the 1999 Gen2 I also purchased and see no evidence of rubbing on the inside tire sidewall or on the frame.  This can depend how aggressively the vehicle was turned.  Also, while I have not measured yet, it appears there is little material that can be trimmed from these wheel wells/fenders.

Good point regarding use of the 5.13 gears yet, I am having trouble finding any gearing at the moment.  The 255/75-R15 appears ideal for the 5.13.  I have no interest in the 5.85 gears as I have no intention of running 33" tires.  A 5.38 would be great and these remain readily available for the Samurai.  I was just referred to a build thread here using a Samurai rear axle housing to fabricate a steel IFS housing for the Gen1 Tracker/Sidekick.  This is located here:

http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/tracker-2x4-rockers-frnt-bmper-4-dr-sprngs-lwered-frnt-diff-$30-steel-frnt-diff/

This is a big job but, if this is what one needs to do (just like needing 5.85) there really is no choice.  A local person has told me the Samurai front housing can be used for this conversion as well.

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Offline JollyZuk

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 08:15:20 AM »
So you are wanting to run the P-metric equivalent of a 31" tire, correct?  My opinion would be to find a set of OEM 5.12 gears and run that.  For the price, I think you would be very happy.  In theory, you might loose a small amount of fuel economy.  But do a break even analysis.  Compare the cost of swapping in a set of OE diffs compared to ordering and installing the 5.8's and see what kind of difference you would need to see in fuel economy over how many miles to break even.  Now would the rig be better off road, etc with the lower gears?  Probably so.  But you might find you could put a lower set of T-case gears in for the price of having both diffs rebuilt with aftermarket gears.  So much to consider!

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Offline 40nTheFloor

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 08:01:18 AM »
fordem - As usual, you are correct regarding this Samurai axle width.  Samurai = 52.2", Tracker = 57.5."

Interested readers can reference this thread from 2006 for more detail: http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/tracker-width/msg105811/#msg105811

Downeaster - Your experience with the 4xfourart gears does not surprise to me.  My other vehicle is a 1988 Cherokee.  I lifted it and installed 32" tires so, this requires 4.10/4.11 gears.  Driveability is as the OE gear and tire configuration (I cannot recall the factory tire size.).  This is what gear ratio calculators do for you if you use them before purchasing new tires, gears, etc.  Yes, these are expensive gears and it may be better to describe their cost as excessive but, as fordem explained this is a small market.

The 5.85 ratio gives virtually identical results to the OE 205/75R15 with a 32" tire so, this is the optimum gear/tire combination.  At this stage of learning what I can do with the 2nd Gen vehicle and what is available on the marketplace for them, I may have to give this more consideration than I prefer.  My big concern with this drivetrain configuration would be a reduction in fuel economy.  I do not want to modify the drivetrain such that this is the result.  My Cherokee is now at this point.  With the 4.10/4.11 gears in my Cherokee and the previous 31" tires I could obtain 23 mpg if I drove conservatively.  These results were obtained with summer fuel.  My best results with winter fuel are vague but, were typically reduced by 20%.  I do not have a sufficient amount of experience driving the Cherokee with the 32" tires with summer fuel on the highway to provide useful statements about this.  However, I do suspect a reduction in fuel economy.  Estimates show ~325 miles on a tank of fuel for the 32" and I could obtain just under 400 miles with the 31" tires.  A large factor in decision to change to the 32" tire on my Cherokee is the 31" looked awkwardly narrow on a lifted Cherokee with increased backspacing.  I think the 31" would be a better choice if left within the wheel houses and not mounted on wheels with increased backspacing but, I am a firm believer in widening the tire stance when lifting a vehicle.

With this information in mind, my options are to use a non-ideal ring & pinion set, try to identify another tire size that works well with the 4.87 OE gearset or, the 5.12/5.13 used in the GV/XL7 as these are available on the used market. I also have to consider these 5.85 gears and one of the 3" lift kits on the market but, this will be a lower priority unless I can obtain feedback from a user/owner with solid good fuel economy results.  In a similar level of priority, I need to evaluate the Toyota IFS threads I have found (I'll edit to add here later).


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Online fordem

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 04:56:32 AM »
Its too bad a vendor has yet offered these R & P's here in the States or Canada.i think they would be much more common,well known,and used.

Supply & demand - there's a wider range of 4WD vehicles to choose from in North America, and Europeans go for smaller, more fuel efficient models, so more folks on that side of the pond are modifying Suzukis, so there's greater demand - to illustrate my point, at one time, 4xfourart offered two gear sets (I think the other was 5.3), now, they only offer one.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline DOWNEASTER

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 07:16:30 PM »
Hey Guys,just wanted to chuck in my two cents...I have a set of 5:85 R & P's from 4xfourart.com  for around 2-3 years now,tho I had issues with the company after the sets arrived,they have worked great. But be warned ,they are pricey and if not professionally setup they WILL wear very fast.Much like drag racing set of R & P's will as they are made for high shock loads not 10's of thousands of miles.Yet i must have close to 25-35 thousand miles on my set,but my rig is not my daily driver just a toy,i use it lots.So,before the gearing change i never could use 5th gear with my setup of BF KM2 32/11.50's. 60 mph was about it unless i found a miles long Down hill.lol. After the gears WOW it was like a new rig. i can maintain 50mph up hills in 5th. most of all is no more burning clutch in 4x4 mud spots or using speed to fly threw hard spots.i nearly crawl in 1st yet still have fruit enuff to spin all 4 if needed. Its too bad a vendor has yet offered these R & P's here in the States or Canada.i think they would be much more common,well known,and used.Anyway goodluck with either way you choose to build.

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Online fordem

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 05:13:07 PM »
Whilst I don't have the dimensions, I can tell you, right off the bat, that the Samurai axles are going to be quite a bit narrower than the second gen Tracker - the Samurai is a narrower vehicle, the first gen vehicles are wider, and the second gen are wider than the first gen.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline 40nTheFloor

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 04:09:55 PM »
Hello fordem.

It is good to have you comment hear.  Your experience always shows.  You are correct, they do sell a 5.85 gear...I did not know this.  I will have to look at the gear ratio calculators to answer your question.  Thank you again!

The other option I thought of is the possibility of using Samurai axles as these were supported more.  I just need to know the WMS dimensions of Samurai and Tracker axles to know if this will work.  I am fairly certain this is a much lower cost alternative to using Toyota axles.

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Online fordem

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Re: 2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 10:31:16 AM »
Would 5.85 gears work for you?  You can get them at 4xfourart.com.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline 40nTheFloor

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2d Gen Tracker/Vitara - Toyota Axle Info Needed
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 06:32:30 PM »
After determining what I would like to do with a tire (265/75-15) the gear ratio calculators told me I need Suzuki 5.38 gears to get by yet, a 5.51 gear ratio is nearly identical to the OE gearing for the 2L/Sp Auto drivetrain I have (I need to evaluate the 5 Sp vehicle too).  Can anyone point me in the direction of some build threads and suggest some specific hardware?  All other 4x4 sites refer me here for issues like this.  Will I stay IFS or convert to solid axle?  I cannot tell at this stage.  I assume staying IFS is less involved so but, I have to read to learn.  The idea is to build a capable wheeler yet, not a rock crawler.