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93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2011, 09:36:16 AM »
Went to the good ole junkyard and pulled the ECU. Installed in "The Thing" (we can't think of a good name for it LOL). It runs  now (at least it idles and no black smoke).

Now for the $64 Million dollar question--- The brain I pulled |removethispart|@ the J/Y is for a standard. I am not sure how proprietary OBD1 Suzuki's are. My old Chevy is OBD1 and I have changed the tranny in that from auto to standard without computer issues. If I run this standard ECU in an auto what issues/damage could I cause or run into if any????

KickFix showed the most common capacitor failure as 103. Is that the one that will cause all these problems. Any info on where I can get that capacitor or could I hit about any Radio Shack?

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »
Well according to KickFix if you have RubyCon capacitor you are screwed. Guess what I have for capacitors in my Zuke's ECU??? You guessed it RubyCon. Guess it's ECU repair time.

Yeah, the ECM will have rubycon caps, unless they have been replaced.
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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2011, 01:33:34 PM »
Went to the good ole junkyard and pulled the ECU. Installed in "The Thing" (we can't think of a good name for it LOL). It runs  now (at least it idles and no black smoke).

Now for the $64 Million dollar question--- The brain I pulled |removethispart||removethispart|@ the J/Y is for a standard. I am not sure how proprietary OBD1 Suzuki's are. My old Chevy is OBD1 and I have changed the tranny in that from auto to standard without computer issues. If I run this standard ECU in an auto what issues/damage could I cause or run into if any????

KickFix showed the most common capacitor failure as 103. Is that the one that will cause all these problems. Any info on where I can get that capacitor or could I hit about any Radio Shack?

Yours is an auto, I take it?  If so, it won't shift right, with a 5 speed ECM.  It is driveable, but it will shift/drive really crappy.
There are 4 caps to replace in the ECM.  Replace them all.
Radio Shack won't have them all (and if they do, they will be expensive).  I've gotten mine from local electronic supply houses.  The caps are around $1 each.  You can use caps that are rated for higher voltage (for example, if the old cap was a 25V, you can use a 50V in its place), if you can't find any of the exact voltage (don't use one of a lower rated voltage).  But you must use ones that have the exact microfarad rating (if the old one was a 10uf, you must replace it with a 10uf).  You also want to try to get ones that have a 105*C heat rating, but you can use the lower heat rated ones (85*C), if you have to.  You also want to make sure you put the caps in correctly....they are like a battery and have a "positive" and "negative".  Just look at the old cap and you will see a bunch of - minus symbols above one leg on the side of the cap.  The new cap will also have the minus symbols above 1 leg (and also the negative leg is shorter than the positive one, on new caps...but always look for the minus symbol, just to make sure).  Only use rosin core solder...do not use acid core. 
Once you get all the caps replaced, you also need to do continuity tests for some of the various copper traces located around the capacitors.  Usually, the caps will leak and damage a trace (or several), creating an "open".  So even though you replace the caps, that does not fix the problem.  Look at all the traces around the caps with a magnifying glass.  If you see any that are dark colored, or places where you can see that the caps leaked and dried out the coating on the board, you need to clean the corrosion/electrolyte off the board with nail polish remover.  I just use a Qtip and gently rub the area until I get the crap off (usually takes several Qtips, to get all the crap/corrosion off the board/trace).  I then set my digital multimeter on continuity and find "point A" and "point B" of the trace (usually 1 point is the leg of a capacitor, IC chip (the things with multiple legs), etc.) and see if there is continuity between the 2 points.  The only thing that can be between "point A" and "point B" is the copper trace...if the trace passes through any electrical components, you likely won't have continuity, even if the trace is good.  There can be electrical components that "T" into the trace, that won't affect the continuity.  It also helps to have sharp pointy probes, because you will have to poke through the protective coating to get down to the copper/solder, in order to get an accurate test for continuity (unless you are testing from a leg of an electrical component...then you just need to touch the leg...since there is no coating on the legs, just on the traces and some of the small surface mount components.  If you find an open in a trace, you can try to solder the trace back together, but that usually doesn't work well...unless you are really good at soldering.  What I do, is simply solder an insulated jumper wire between "point A" and "point B" of the trace (I use small solid wire (about 22 gauge) that has a protective covering on it, that bypasses the bad part of the trace and completes the circuit path.  Once you either have the corrosion cleaned up and the trace resoldered, or the jumper wire in place, you need to coat the bare traces/solder joints of the board, to prevent them from corroding.  I use clear nail polish to coat these areas.
It really isn't as hard as I make it sound. ;D
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2011, 01:40:55 PM »
Nice writeup Skyhigh, 1 TP for you  :)
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2011, 02:08:58 PM »
You need to ensure that the replacement caps have an adequate ripple current rating, if the ripple current rating is too low then the caps will overheat.
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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2011, 05:05:38 PM »
Just got home from a "Thing" test drive. SKy you are spot on with the crappy shifting. 1st to OD kinda lugs the little 4-banger so I have taken up manual upshifting. Seems to work pretty good if I shift |removethispart|@ 2500 rpm's.

Radio Shack will carry NONE of the caps. I called and the guy told me they dont carry any caps that require that kind of voltage.

I ordered the caps from Mouser. KickFix supplied part#'s and even showed where they go on the board. Total price on parts -- $1.14, shipping was $5 LOL.

What type of soldering iron should I get. I have a soldering gun but all of the tips are WAY too big for this kind of work. Should I be using high or low temp solder?

Thanks Folks.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2011, 05:11:38 PM »
Just a little pencil tip one from Wally World should do, I have used Silver Bearing
solder with good results, built the MegaSquirt with it, but as for temp, I would go
lower to reduce the heat on the components
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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2011, 05:15:17 PM »
I knew it "skip shifted", I just couldn't remember what the skip was to.
I think when I initially checked, RS carried like one of the caps and it was a few bucks.
A gun with a smaller tip the better, but sometimes you gotta use what you have.  The one I use has a pretty good sized tip, but it is pointy, so it isn't too bad.
I don't know what kind of voltage/heat my gun is.  It's just a "generic" gun they gave us when I went through an electronics program.  It is a grounded type gun (has the ground prong on the plug).
The solder I use is....I guess I'm not going to tell you the heat range on it.  All it says is "44" rosin core on it.
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Offline ranger88den

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2011, 04:28:48 AM »
kx, I used a Harbor freight cheapo soldering iron, nice sharp tip, worked well.  Don't forget to "tin" the tip.  There are YouTube videos on tinning.  The capacitors come out okay but I had problems cleaning the holes.  I ended up using a pin vise and a tiny bit. Good luck

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2011, 05:07:16 AM »
A de-soldering tool or a blast of air when the solder is hot work OK,
or you can heat the hole plugged with solder and quickly blow the
hot blob out with your breath, for a few components it's fine but
for a bunch you might get tired of that way
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And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2011, 10:07:28 AM »
I have been away for a bit, duty calls. I have 2 of the caps kick-fix said I would need. The other two caps you were refering to sky are they C105/107? If so I see that Kick-Fix calls them a 33uf tant 25v. Is the "tant" part important or will any 33uf 25v cap work?

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2011, 10:39:31 AM »
All the caps you need to replace are electrolytic capacitors (they are cylinder shaped caps).  I think the tant (tantalum) caps he is talking about are the ones that look like little "chicklets", or round "blobs".  I have never had to replace any caps other than the cylinder shaped electrolytic ones.
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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2011, 07:03:49 PM »
I replaced both of the cylinder shaped caps with the appropriate uf/v caps. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Checked the traces around the caps as far as I could and those showed as good.

any ideas?

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Offline kxrider235

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »
Hey Guys,
Still working on getting a working ECU in the "Thing". Having a hard time finding the right ECU. The 58B40 is for the automatic. 58B30 is for the standard. What is the MAJOR production difference in the two boards? Is one missing a "cap" the other has? Or is it in the programming of the chip itself?  Just curious.

Thanks

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Offline Skyhiranger

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Re: 93 Sidekick runs fine when first started then starts stalling
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2011, 11:59:09 AM »
Hey Guys,
Still working on getting a working ECU in the "Thing". Having a hard time finding the right ECU. The 58B40 is for the automatic. 58B30 is for the standard. What is the MAJOR production difference in the two boards? Is one missing a "cap" the other has? Or is it in the programming of the chip itself?  Just curious.

Thanks

The 58B40 for the automatic plays a role in shifting the transmission.  There is slightly different circuitry on the board and I suspect there is slightly different programming on the chips within the ECM.
An auto ECM will work in a manual, but a manual ECM will not work in an auto.
Tracker and Sidekick parts for sale.....PM me with your wants/needs.