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Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?

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Offline billybob

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Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« on: January 11, 2006, 09:40:42 AM »
As we all may know... the rods on the 16valve are the weak link to a very capable engine. As fate would have it, I had one fall outta the sky and land in my garage. Problem is that one of the rods are bad.
I'm under the impression that there are forged rods that fit the Acura 1.6 that require just a little machining to match the Suzuki rods. Has any of you heard of this? Can you get me some details? Any help would be fantastic!
TIA,
billybob_CA
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2006, 10:41:23 AM »
Don't know why you have the impression that the rods are weak.

Past experince and the tear down of a great pile of these engines shows the problem generally isn't the rods, but oil starvation.

Any way...

Rather than switching rods around why not just beef up what you have? It's what I have done for my aircraft applications.

- Shot peen
- Beam polish
- New or hi perf rod bolts and nuts
- Resize
- Balance

If you loose a rod after that you've got bigger problems

Just my opinion

Zag
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2006, 04:15:15 PM »
Forged Honda rods sounds cool, but the
rods in the Suzuki engines are beefier and
have more of a Small Block Chevy look than
what Honda rods are.

I run a turbo on the stock 1.6 8V engine, which
shares the same rods as the 16V, and I can tell
you that 150 HP is not a problem, these rods can
take 200 and be fine, but you might want to give
them the treatment Zaggy mentioned

Wild
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Offline cj

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2006, 04:26:53 PM »
Yes, I have heard of the odd rod going but generally they seem to be in some pretty worked motors and as Zag has said oiling could be the culprit. Also some severe overboost has been at fault too. What are your plans ?

Zag, just wondering if you have got that book yet? Be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2006, 05:08:46 PM »
Hey Zaggy, what do you think about using two
sets of main bearings, and use the halfs that
have the grooves in them, this way providing
a constant flow of oil from both sides of the oiling
groove into the main journal and oiling hole to the
rods ???

Wild
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Offline billybob

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2006, 09:58:36 PM »
Quote from: cj on January 11, 2006, 04:26:53 PM
What are your plans ?


Well... thinking supercharger onna totally rebuilt engine, but seems a little pricey from what little research I've done so far. Also considering the turbo effect... not sure about the lag  tho' I run alot of sand dunes 'round here and the supercharger I think would be more suited to the task... need more information before I really decide.

So all things considered, I wanna get a solid rebuild outta this engine that'll harvest as many ponies as I can whilst being dependable.
L8R
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2006, 10:22:35 PM »
Go turbo, use somthing from about 1.6-1.8L
you will not have too much lag, I have been
happy with my setup, 5 PSI boost in about
20 feet from a stop, sand dunes are fun with
150 HP on tap

Wild
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Offline billybob

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2006, 11:09:29 PM »
Ya Wild...

Price wise turbo's the bet! I'd like some pix on your set-up and how you made it all go together. Did you go new or used? Lotsa boneyards out here and lots of turbo vw's. Kinda thinking onna smaller turbo 1-1.5 inch to cut down on lag time. Whattaya think?
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2006, 08:22:27 AM »
My buildup, good and bad ideas are all on

http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/zookmods

Check it out and follow the links, feel free to PM, E-mail
or drop me a line here on ZW and I will answer any Qs
you have

Wild
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Offline zaggy

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2006, 10:42:18 AM »
Hey Wild and CJ

Sorry I'm not around as much...world is pretty wierd right now.

CJ

Still haven't recieved the book 21st Century performance...ordered through Amazon and the damn thing still hasn't showed.

Have seen it now at least, for me it's gonna be an addition to the library. Didn't see anything in it to justify buying it, pretty basic stuff and some of it highly opinionated rather than factual

I think it would be a good book for someone starting off but at $70.00 Cdn landed I can't recommend it.

Seeing as it is already ordered I will still take it for my kid. Good read for someone just beginning. IMHO

Hey Wild

I've thought the same thing on the bearings, just been to chicken to try it. You would need to boost the oil volume a pile to keep the pressure up though...and I don't know if it would really solve the oiling problem.

What I have seen in all the tear downs is that the rod (s) blow...usually #3...from oil starvation, rather than a system problem. So I think I will concentrate more on oil control rather than the oil system. Things like a crank scraper, better windage tray, bigger sump with trap door type oil control baffles to increase capacity.

For the size and out put of the engine the oil capacity is a little small which drives the temp of the oil up and can make it hard to get a stable feed in extreme angles. Let you know how it works out on the next aircraft engine. (can't get more extreme angles than that).

Oh yeah...have the oil holes in the crank champhered, lets more oil get to the bearing surface over a slightly wider area....like your double bearing idea with out needing to increase the oil volume.

Nice chatting guys I'm gonna try and be around more but it's tough right now.

Zag


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Offline billybob

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2006, 11:10:21 AM »
Quote from: zaggy on January 12, 2006, 10:42:18 AM


What I have seen in all the tear downs is that the rod (s) blow...usually #3...from oil starvation, rather than a system problem. So I think I will concentrate more on oil control rather than the oil system. Things like a crank scraper, better windage tray, bigger sump with trap door type oil control baffles to increase capacity.

For the size and out put of the engine the oil capacity is a little small which drives the temp of the oil up and can make it hard to get a stable feed in extreme angles.


So are there aftermarket high volume oil pumps available for the zuki? I definitely will be interested in the outcome of the increased oil capacity you mentioned.
TIA,
billybob_CA
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2006, 07:03:36 PM »
Yes, there are high volume oil pumps
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mudfkr

Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2006, 12:51:56 AM »
I acquired a 5 door a few weeks back with a blowen motor. Number four had let go exited out the R/H/S hitting the starter motor so hard it pushed it away from the block and the cracked the bell housing too  :o

Luckily I have a few spears around to fix er up !
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2006, 09:53:07 AM »
Quote from: wildgoody on January 13, 2006, 07:03:36 PM
Yes, there are high volume oil pumps

Who sells them?
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Performance Rods for 1.6 16valve?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2006, 11:41:07 AM »
TOGA High Volume Oil Pumps for Suzuki

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

Don't know if you can get them from there Rhino,
but the brand is what you might be able to find
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