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Sj413 Questions about modding

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Offline 1HZ

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Sj413 Questions about modding
« on: March 30, 2010, 12:33:58 AM »
Hey guys just got a SJ413 WHOO HOO! :laugh:
Its a flat deck I gess long wheel base, 29 or 30 inch tractor grips >:D and its got a Nissan diesel 1600 motor in it.
I know these arnt standerd and was wondering if anyone had any info on it?
Shes a bit rusty in places (wheel gards , roof gutter, chassis that the deck sits on :o)
Im going to strip it down clean up the rust give it a bit of paint and shell be all good.
im going to trim the wheel gards, and trim the tray to better the depart angle.
So now for the important Questions ;)
Spring over Yay or Nay? i want to but what compartments are needed?(High steer,Ect)
If i do SOA with standed SJ Axles Tippy?
Or will i need HiLux Axles? how hard is this?
Body lifts? easy?
If i was going to put longer springs in it to get improved artlication and lift what should i use? And i have some Landcruiser and Toyota surf shockies can i put these in?
How much diff clearance does a SJ have on 31 inch tires in comparasion to hilux and landcruiser?
I need traction ;D And without the cost so the plan is to weld one of the diffs together so it is permantly locked should i do the back will it affect steering or the front so i can use the manual hubs to switch them in and out? but steering will be affected when in 4WD.

Thanks.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 01:15:08 AM by 1HZ »

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 07:13:58 AM »
For extra stability you can go to Samurai axles but you need to move the axle perches out. For 31s I would consider moving the front axle forward a lttle and going for a virtual lift with maybe a small spring lift. You shouldn't have any clearance problems in the rear.
Something to watch out fot is that the rear springs are a bit longer (10mm) on the LWB models.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 12:31:39 AM »
cool man but im looking to spend as less money as possible its just a farm hack :)
the main Q is will a SPOA require a high steer? its only lifting it 2-3 in because of small axles.
I have the oppertunity of getting a 410 are the parts interchangeable? (the hub on my SJ413 is leaking :'() What about the axles are they wider or have different gearing?

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 05:52:31 AM »
410 and 413 axles are different, the 410 diff is much smaller, I'm not sure about thehubs, early 410s had drum brakes, later ones will probably swap. The 410 tcase can be made to fit and has lower gearing, not much else is interchangeable.
SPOA will give you 4-6" of lift and could be a bit tippy on the narrow axles, you will need some sort of stering linkage, if its not being use don the road a Z-bar should suffice.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline Drone637

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 01:18:08 PM »
Hubs are the same.  If you have the disk brake's in front they will swap straight across for the Samurai axles, just about everything will swap over on the knuckles.

One thing to be careful of is that the springs are 3" closer together, so when you swap axles you will need to weld on new spring pads.

Depending on the year of the SJ-410 the transfer case is the same, just the gears are different.  Older SJ-410's have a smooth aluminum t-case, same gears internally but you can't use a lower gear kit.  They are 10% lower then the stock Samurai T-Case gears in both high and low range so just perfect for swapping on some 235/75 tires and keeping your ratio the same.  You also get the drum e-brake on the back.  Body panels are the same, dash is different though.  Plus the SJ-410 has the flip forward passenger seat frame.  Engine is 970cc with a side draft carb, transmission is a 4 speed.

My recommendation, pull the passenger seat frame off of the SJ-410 if you want it and the t-case.  The e-brake on the tcase will bolt onto a Sammy t-case without issues and allows you to do a rear disk brake conversion without having to worry about the e-brake.  Plus you can use the SJ-410 t-case to run the bigger tires until you decide to drop lower gears in the Sammy t-case.  :)
96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410,  x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 02:37:56 AM »
Thanks for the info guys.
Please explane the Z Bar  ??? I have a kind of idea about it.
And please help with my first Questions.

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Offline zukimoo

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 06:04:14 PM »
there is no such thing as a cheap lift.

I've got a 413K like yours and since the local law doesn't like home made lifts I ended up taking out the SOA that was done with samurai axles.

I'm running 413K axles with 512 gears, locked and running 30" BFG muds....no lift other than the revolver shakles (might give 1"). I'm finding the 512 way to slow for the road. You can trust me when I say that this thing will go anywhere I want to go...I don't do mud or rock so it all depends on the terrain. We do offroad touring with washouts and tight trails.

I'm swapping out the 413K's for the 410's. You can bolt on the 413 outers to give you all the good brakes (disc) and access to more parts. THe 410's come with 411 gears and if that is too high then I can drop in some 456 LJ80 gears to slow me down.

You'll need a steering fix to make it right and strongly recommended for the width. The 413K has a narrow stance with the perches close together so all the width will be worth the time. You also need to add brake lines and fix the shocks. The stock 413K has 393 gears so if you swap out for the 413's then you'll have to swap the gears too. 462=31-33's   512=33-35's

If it'' legal then go for the SOA, Add a heavy ply to all 4 corners and get some good arch in that ply or the whole pack. Put in the 462/512 gears, crossover steering, brake lines and probably a traction bar....then you'll have a nice drive with a good rig but it will cost money.

85 SJ413K SUA, 30" BFG muds, 512's, lockers and DOHC soon...
81 LJ80, 800cc of pure power....Stock
06 Baja Buggy

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Offline Drone637

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 06:22:16 PM »
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Spring over Yay or Nay? i want to but what compartments are needed?(High steer,Ect)
If i do SOA with standed SJ Axles Tippy?

I like my SPOA, works well.  Tippy is not an issue, ran 3.5" backspacing on the wheels with 33" tires but I did destroy a couple of rear springs.  You can read a write-up of doing a spoa yourself at http://zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/basic-spoa-on-a-lwb-sj-413-using-stock-parts/  Like zukimoo said though, there is no such thing as cheap lift.  I would go with all of his suggestions of gears, traction bar, cross over steering and brake lines.

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Or will i need HiLux Axles? how hard is this?

Depends, do you want to spend money or do it yourself?  Plenty of people do the Toyota axle swap, works great.  Wider, heavier duty, but you will need adapters or modified drive shafts.  And it will require re-doing all of the suspension mounts on the Toyota axles.  My opinion, only do it if really need to or if they are cheap.  You can get chromoly axles front and rear now for the SJ-413, that should be good enough for 35" tires unless you drop a bigger motor in.

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Body lifts? easy?

Depends on what you call Easy.  I'm not a fan of them myself, but there are arguments both way.  You can do some searches and find what people have to say.  If the bolts aren't rusted shut it should only take a few hours to put a 1" body lift on for a bit of extra clearance.

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If i was going to put longer springs in it to get improved artlication and lift what should i use?

YJ springs are a common swap, as are using front CJ springs in the rear and rear springs up front.  Both require modification and some fabrication work.

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And i have some Landcruiser and Toyota surf shockies can i put these in?

Anything can be made to work  I use front shocks from a Ford F-250 on mine.  Once again, just depends on your fabrication skills and how much time/money you want to spend on it.

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How much diff clearance does a SJ have on 31 inch tires in comparasion to hilux and landcruiser?

With stock axles probably an inch or two. underneath the pumpkin.

Quote
I need traction ;D And without the cost so the plan is to weld one of the diffs together so it is permantly locked should i do the back will it affect steering or the front so i can use the manual hubs to switch them in and out? but steering will be affected when in 4WD.


I recommend reading the Locker Faq that was made a while back at http://zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/merged-'lockers-the-best-but-most-'-and-'mini-spool-vs-locker-'/    it should cover most of your questions.
96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410,  x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 10:41:38 PM »
This is not for a road car its for a off road rig that can go anywhere
And i am able to change mounts and such for shocks and springs so thats all good

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2010, 04:12:34 AM »
Would a shackle reversal be a good investment in time?

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Offline Drone637

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2010, 10:24:10 PM »
One of the main advantages of a shackle reversal is the improvement in on-road handling.  Some other that have done the mod should be able to chime in and let you know how it handles.
96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410,  x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 04:04:29 AM »
looked at my landcruiser shocks compared to the shocks in the zuk today they are wayyy to big :o
They would be perfect for spring over tho ::)

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 12:31:33 AM »
How hard is it to do a 2in body lift? ??? i can see the 6 mounts i need to change.
what parts will i need and what will need to be changed like the gear leaver and 4WD leaver?

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Offline 1HZ

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
Are 410 and 413 diff ratios the same?
im thinking of welding the rear and if it doenst work out chucking a 410 diff in but in sure there different ratios...........

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Offline Drone637

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Re: Sj413 Questions about modding
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2010, 08:14:21 PM »
The SJ-410 has 4.10 gears instead of the 3.89.  The diff is also a different size and the axles have a different spline.  There isn't anything you can really swap between them.

Your spring pads are also 1.5" further inboard on both sides, so if you want to swap to Sammurai (SJ-413) axles you will need to re-weld the spring pads.
96 Geo Tracker, x-SJ-410,  x-White Rabbit, x-Project Trouble
Crawlers NorthWest
x-Trouble Racing