ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: RustyRed on January 04, 2006, 08:34:47 PM
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Hey,
So here is my dilema: ??? I currently have a very off road capable 90 Jeep Cherokee that I spent a lot of money on (upgraded rear axle Ford 8.8, Detroit locker, disk brakes, 4.56:1 gears, custom rear bumper, 33 in. tires...). The rear axle is my pride and joy, this is a bullet proof axle with a locker and disk brakes.
Now the XJ is rusting away, every year I have to cut and patch different body parts. Last spring I had to repair a huge hole in one of the "frame" rails. I HATE BODY WORK >:(
And I also own a 99 Grand vit that is currently bone stock.ÂÂ
So I am thinking about getting rid of the XJ and modifying the Zuki. Now I have been reading this site as well as others, I have read up on the problems with lifting the GV and the fact that it is IFS and will never perform (offroad) as well as my XJ. I know a SAS would probably solve this problem but I am not a good enough fabricator to do this and it would be too expensive to get someone else to do it for me. So I am basically stuck with a small 2-2.5 in. lift, and a body lift to get a maximum of 31 inch tires under there.
I am a member of an offroad club here in Ottawa, Canada and I don't want to go from leading the pack in my XJ to a much lower vehicle that will just barely make it on the local trails.
So what do you think I should do?
1 - Keep the XJ and keep on fixing it. Keep the GV stock as a DD
2 - get rid of the XJ, keep the parts (axle and tires) and get my self an old Trackick for off road use and keep the GV stock as a DD
3 - get rid of both the XJ and the GV and get myself an older Trackick as both DD and offroader
4 - Or sell the parts for all I can get for them and use the money to mod the GV and buy a winch to get me out of any stuck I find myself in.
BTW money is tight so I am looking for a cheap solution. I am sorta leaning towards #4 myself to get rid of the second vehicle, but I will never get as much money as I invested in the parts.
Is there any way to install my axle on the GV?
RustyRed
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Could you buy a cheap XJ with a decent body, maybe even a 2wd model. Then move the parts from your XJ to the new one? Personally I would want my offroader to be topless so I would want something where the top could be removed.
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So what do you think I should do?
1 - Keep the XJ and keep on fixing it. Keep the GV stock as a DD
2 - get rid of the XJ, keep the parts (axle and tires) and get my self an old Trackick for off road use and keep the GV stock as a DD
3 - get rid of both the XJ and the GV and get myself an older Trackick as both DD and offroader
4 - Or sell the parts for all I can get for them and use the money to mod the GV and buy a winch to get me out of any stuck I find myself in.
sorry, i know nothing about jeeps, but i would think short of getting another XJ with a good body and swapping the goodies over, would be option 2.
ok, maybe i also dont have an understanding on how much stuff over there is worth, but buying a swb track-kick-vit soft top would be reasonable, and just swap everything over. and maybe ultimately, sas it with the XJ gear.
GV as DD still.
the swb track-kick-vits are little weapons if you know what to mod. and they wont cost you the world eaither, so you can do budget lifts on them.
hope this helps.
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My vote is to go with #4. Look around in the XL7 and GV forums, with a little trimming and the 2.5" + 2" lift people have been able to 32's. Of course I do have an 02 myself so I want to see more people taking them offroad so we get more vendor support :) Oh, do you have a 5spd with the steel front diff? If so then your drivetrain should be stronger than a sidekick's already.
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I have read up on the problems with lifting the GV and the fact that it is IFS and will never perform (offroad) as well as my XJ.
Oh, really? 8)
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My vote is to go with #4. Look around in the XL7 and GV forums, with a little trimming and the 2.5" + 2" lift people have been able to 32's. Of course I do have an 02 myself so I want to see more people taking them offroad so we get more vendor support :) Oh, do you have a 5spd with the steel front diff? If so then your drivetrain should be stronger than a sidekick's already.
Who in there right mind would off-raod an XL-7 ::)
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2205000-2205999/2205002_1_full.jpg)
pic at Paragon on PA with 225/75/16 and 2.5 Calmini lift
(http://www.gonzookin.com/gallery/albums/GZ-05-Stock-Group/100_1043r.jpg)
at Paragon again with 245/75/16 2.5 Calmini lift and 2" BD liftÂÂ
more to come........
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Thanks for the replies,
You have all given me lots to think about. Blacknight and the_Maplebar this is sorta why I am kinda nervous about the GV is that there aren't many of them out there, and there are a limited number of aftermarket parts out there. I have been reading the XL-7, trackkick, and GV forums here and there is a lot of info.
I think I am going to look around for some donor vehicles either an XJ or a Trackkick (whichever seems to be the cheaper solution). BTW I am really quite impressed with the Trackkick, easy to mod and inexpensive, this sounds like a very good deal. I should have bought this instead of the GV.
In Canada (Ottawa) everything is rusty, so to get something not rusty I will have to shell out more bucks.
Topless is good but I do quite a bit of winter driving, I just pull out the rear windows on the XJ to get the most air flow during the summer and reinstall them to have heat during the winter. And with the kid and 2 dogs I will have go with a 5 door Trackick unless I leave the wife at home and put the kid up front ;)
I think I am only going to do something in the spring so there is no real rush.
Bobzooki, It will take a lot of work to make an IFS flex as much as a solid axle. This not to say that a modded IFS isn't better that a stock solid axle rig. Show me some pics to disprove this ;D And show me some Vit or GV pics if ya got 'em.
Thanks again
Rustyred ÂÂ
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take all the good parts and put them on the gv, axles, tranny everything.
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Hello, RustyRed
I vote for #5:
Part out the XJ, buy a Samurai and put the XJ proceeds into it! On the up side, stock Samurais are cheap, easy to maintain, have a solid front axle, have a lot of aftermarket stuff available including several engine (including Diesel!) and t-case upgrades. On the downside, there are not many Samurais around as there used to be.
Second is #2. There are lots of cheap TracKicks around for sale. You CAN beef up the front IFS quite a bit, they have Fuel Injection, there are transfer case gear upgrades available. I have to admit that I have wheeled my stock '96 Tracker only once (Disney Oklahoma) but I do know that there is a lot of info in the articles on this site that can help you get more offroading performance out of a TracKick... I've seen some fine examples owned by posters here at the annual ZookiMelt. In the Suzuki World, TracKicks are the future...
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I'd say stick with your XJ, and the grand vit. Use the XJ as a trail rig. The XJ is more capable than the grand vit will ever be without massive amounts of time and money put into it.
Even a trackick without heavy modification (calmini 3+3, front and rear lockers, tcase gears, toyota cvs maybe) would probably get outperformed by your current XJ.
With that said, if you just feel like something new, find a used 1995 trackick (my favorite, 16v but the best body style) and get to work on it. Maybe you could keep both your XJ and grand vit, and make the trackick into a little rock buggy or something.
A samurai is also a good choice. It is already solid axle and has more aftermarket support than trackicks. When I wrecked my tracker, I went out and looked for a samurai. I'm now putting my tracker engine into my samurai... and the samurai is WAY more capable than my trackick was (stock 2wd, so I guess that is pretty obvious)
If it were me I'd stick with the XJ and grand vit combo though.
Actually, I'd like to see a solid axle GV so try that. ;D
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i think you should ship the jeep my way real real cheap as the shape not a concern , just for parts, and build up the GV
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/SHATTERED_1/Jeep49Sized.jpg)
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do you have a link to any Ottawa wheeling pics?
The 5-door is quite a capable little beast. You may need to pick your lines more carefully, but I'll take mine anywhere I took my Land Rover Discovery with a two-inch lift and 32's. More reliable over the long haul, and much more economical. I have Rocky Road's 4-inch lift (2 inch body, 2-inch suspension) and 29-inch tires. I've been quite pleased with the results.
Unless you do really hardcore rock-crawling, these Zuks can hang with the big dogs pretty well.
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Unless you do really hardcore rock-crawling, these Zuks can hang with the big dogs pretty well.
I agree. I don't know what it is about zuks, but for some reason they are way better off road than the sum of their parts. My zuk on 31" all terrains with a 1.3L was able to go everywhere and more that a wrangler with a 4.5" rubicon express lift and 33" pro comp X terrains and a 4.2L.
What makes them so good? Is it the light weight?
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phisics 101. less weight, less pounds per sq/inch on contact, acts like a tank. and in 4 low, you have just as much torque.
Any questions?
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How do we have just as more torque?
And I guess all that makes sense.
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Even a trackick without heavy modification (calmini 3+3, front and rear lockers, tcase gears, toyota cvs maybe) would probably get outperformed by your current XJ.
Wanna play that one in real life?!? I've got a fairly built up XJ (33" swampers, long arms, locker, winch, 1100 on a 20*) and it SUX in real life compared to a 3+3 tracking rolling 32" swampers with a rear locker. Got my azz handed to me in a game of bells and whistles 2 years ago by one. Out of the 6 that participated it was down to me and my friend in his 94 kicker, last two obsticles he cooked me.
Driving a whale is not all it's cracked up to be. Sure there fun in the back and have lots of trunk space... But off-road it's not what your carrying but how you carry it.
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Here's Yankee Tims Gv on Lower Helldorado with a Calimin 2.5 lift and 225/75/16 tires. Wheeled it all week their and drove back to NY!
(http://www.puresuzuki.com/980405-007a.jpg)
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Bobzooki, It will take a lot of work to make an IFS flex as much as a solid axle. This not to say that a modded IFS isn't better that a stock solid axle rig. Show me some pics to disprove this ;D And show me some Vit or GV pics if ya got 'em.
Well you said:
it is IFS and will never perform (offroad) as well as my XJ
I guarantee you I can take my Kick places your XJ will never follow.
Your XJ should be able to go places my Kick cannot follow.
So which one performs better?
Flex alone does not make or break a rig. Ramp scores mean nothing on the trail.
This pic is nothing special (just going down a bump on Moab Rim trail)...
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1299/gettingair20kk.jpg)
We have a little trail here - Spring Creek - Last time I ran the Rock Garden on Spring Creek with my friend Elaine, in her seriously built TJ, she had several issues with "tight places" that the Gnewt just walked through. An XJ would have been hard-pressed to make it through!
The Gnewt:
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7561/dcp07537tj.jpg)
And Elaine's TJ on the same little rock, going in to Spring Creek.
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9375/dcp07515xh.jpg)
Darn Imageshack, doesn't seem to be cooperating...
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I have owned xj's befor and they wheel pertty good, if you have the fuel injected streight six engine I would just keep it for a wheeler and add a sub frame to it, it will add a little bit of weight but should be alot safer if your worried about rusting through. I like haveing a daily driver and a wheeler, ya never know when your going to need a back up rig.
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Well, I have never owned a jeep but before I got the Tracker, I had a 71 bronco with lockers, gears, disk brakes...all the good stuff. The tracker just walks over stuff that the bronco had issues with. Last time I went out wheeling, I ended up following a group of jeeps out of Miller Jeep Trail which is a challenging trail. Where most jeeps stuggled I just walked up. By the time I got to the top, people who didn't give my beat-up, dented to shit, 80hp tracker a second look were swarming to see what my little rig was equipt with. What makes these little rigs great is the weight. Although you don't have the flex of a SAS rig you also don't have the weight to push you around, so lifting a tire isn't as big a deal as if you were in a heavier rig. Also, when approaching a obsticle you can easily place your tires because it doesn't take a lot of power or force for a tire to scratch its way up a rock face, especially when equipt with the 4.24 gears. Althoguh my Bronco buddies would knock me, if I had to choose a decent rig for all around off-roading, I would go with my Tracker hands down! Good luck with the XJ delima.
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Here are links to some wheeling pics from this weekend. Went with 4 very capable Land Rovers, one trick Land Cruiser, a stock Jeep and my Zuki.
I took the hardest lines the Cruiser did on 35s with one or two exceptions (wasn't sure I had the breakover angle to get over a ledge going up a gnarly hill). The Vit was totally at home with these vehicles.
http://homepage.mac.com/jeffryscott/PhotoAlbum18.html
http://shottscruisers.smugmug.com/gallery/1108700
http://www.azlro.org/gallery/2006-01-07
Have fun,
Jeff
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Great pics. Thanks guys. I am seriously considering the GV buildup. Jeff, what mods have you done so far? Do you have any skid plating?
Bobzuki those are some pretty gnarly trails. We don't have anything that wicked around here, lots of clearcut sections of forest where the power lines run. I have really benefitted from lots of ground clearance. I think this is the most challenging part of lifting the GV.
I'll let you know what I do, I'll post pics.
RustyRed
Here are some pics of the XJ that I have collected, I will post some trailrun pics tomorrow as the links are on my work PC. Lots of different truck Toys, Rovers, Xterras...
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rustyredxj/album?.dir=/915f
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Flex alone does not make or break a rig. Ramp scores mean nothing on the trail.
This pic is nothing special (just going down a bump on Moab Rim trail)...
([url]http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1299/gettingair20kk.jpg[/url])
Yep. That is true!
(http://www.ackerdackerly.com/graphics/pinzpic.jpg)
This the Pinzgauer I used to own. At the 2003 ZookiMelt, I was beat out for dead last on the RTI (218 points) by a bone-stock early-model Sidekick 2-door tintop. Yet I have been in situations where all I had was two wheels and a body panel on the ground and yet was able to keep going under my own power. Where she lacked in suspension flex (4-wheel Independent Suspension!), she made it all back with lockers, gearing and outstanding front/rear attack angles.  I have a pic of her on the RTI ramp at the Badlands, but my dial-up connection won't cooperate tonight. Maybe tomorrow at work...
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Great pics. Thanks guys. I am seriously considering the GV buildup. Jeff, what mods have you done so far? Do you have any skid plating?
Bobzuki those are some pretty gnarly trails. We don't have anything that wicked around here, lots of clearcut sections of forest where the power lines run. I have really benefitted from lots of ground clearance. I think this is the most challenging part of lifting the GV.
I'll let you know what I do, I'll post pics.
RustyRed
Here are some pics of the XJ that I have collected, I will post some trailrun pics tomorrow as the links are on my work PC. Lots of different truck Toys, Rovers, Xterras...
[url]http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rustyredxj/album?.dir=/915f[/url]
I do have skid plating, from a Chevy ZR2 from Hawk Strictly Suzuki. Glad I have them too. Otherwise, so far, I have installed Old Man Emu struts and springs and Doetsch Tech shocks for vastly improved articulation and about 1.5-inches of lift, a 2-inch body lift, rock rails and a LockRite rear locker all from Rocky-Road. I added 235/70/16 tires (Firestone Destination AT, great reviews on Tire Rack and so far, great on and off-road (except mud)).
As far as tires go, I get rubbing at full lock in front, and some minor rubbing at full stuff in back. If I bought new tires again, I'd go with 225/75/16. Same basic height, just a tad slimmer so I don't think I'd have any rubbing whatsoever. I'm also looking at 215/85/16 for a set of MTs. We'll see though.
I'm in the process of trying to figure out what to do with my bumpers. Since the body lift, the stock plastic pieces don't fit so well, and there really isn't anything aftermarket to look at. I also want to add a snorkel, mostly because I trimmed the plastic inside the wheel wells and am unsure of how safe water crossings will be now.
The Vitara/GV work well ... Good luck with your build.
Jeff
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Rusty Red, just looked at the pics of the XJ. Don't think you'd have any trouble with the GV in anything I saw.
Have fun,
Jeff
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A few years ago, I was out wheeling near my house (Arapaho National Forest, Gilpin and Clear Creek Counties, Colorado), and asked a guy on a dirt bike "Is this the trail over to Yankee Hill?"
He said "Sure is.", and headed down it - and kept looking back, amazed.
I followed him all the way down a QUAD trail to the Forest Service road - a few miles.