ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ebewley on January 11, 2006, 07:18:59 AM
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In a recent speech by Jerome B. York published in Automotive News, Mr. York is discussing how to turn GM around and get it on 'the right path'. In the speech, Mr. York references two previous turn arounds that he had worked on. One was Chrysler in '90 and the other was IBM in '93. What I found interesting was some of the details of the Chrysler "plan". A snippit follows:
From Automotive News / January 10, 2006 Chrysler in 1990
By late 1989 it became obvious to all of us at Chrysler that we were in trouble. Our new model introductions were falling well short of their planning volumes and profitability was trending rapidly downward. The top twenty or so officers began meeting regularly to discuss what we were going to have to do to fix the company. And over a period of six months we developed a plan. As you can imagine, this plan evolved over time, but nevertheless we had a plan that everyone began working towards.
I'm sure many of you will recall the key elements of that plan:
1. We went through the five year product plan and culled out spending that didn't seem to be critical to success, and focused our spending and engineering resources on the four key products being introduced over the next few years:
-- The cab-forward design, LH sedans.
-- The Jeep Grand Cherokee.
-- The Minivan renewal, and
-- The Dodge Ram pickup renewal.
We eliminated things like the JJ program, a vehicle that was intended to compete against the Suzuki Samurai, but just didn't have much volume or profit potential�at least not enough to "make a difference."
So, this begs several questions for the minutiae minded Suzuki enthusiast. Did Chrysler have a concept vehicle built or maybe even a production based vehicle ready? Was this "JJ" program that was ready to compete with the Samurai? Was this a response solely due to the Samurai's early success? Was it to be a "small Jeep"? Was it cancelled because the bottom dropped out of sales for the Samurai after the infamous C.R. article?
Of course being information that is more that 15 years old, this is ancient history and has no real bearing on anything current but nonetheless I still wonder if the "JJ program" is discussed somewhere out there in greater detail.
-Eric
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From a 1991 Wards Auto World article:
Chrysler Corp. still is seeking a partner for its moribund JJ project, sources say.
Insiders say the cash-strapped automaker would revive the Junior Jeep project if another manufacturer would put in about $350 million. This project was thought to be defunct last year when Chrysler pulled out of a joint venture to build the JJ with Renault SA and later canceled the vehicle. At that time the company said the market niche for compact SUVs was too crowded for the JJ to be profitable. Today, insiders say the JJ market could be 150,000, but some analysts contend it is no more than 70,000.
"It would be great if we could get $350 million for the JJ, but I don't believe there are any substantive negotiations," says a company source familiar with the program. Right now, Chrysler has a skeleton crew maintaining the project, dubbed JJ International, located in Detroit.
Insiders say Chrysler had very informal discussions with Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Fiat SpA concerning the JJ earlier in the year.
"Fiat was interested, but there are no talks going on now," says one Chrysler source. "They have some commitments in that area and they could use a vehicle like the JJ."
In the original agreement, Chrysler would have assembled JJs in North America while Renault was to produce them in Spain. The companies were to share development costs. In any new plan, Chrysler wants a portion of the build for sale in its dealerships. Sources say Mitsubishi is the strongest candidate for the JJ, but one Chrysler insider says, "There are no talks now."
If the U.S.-Mexico Free Trade Agreement is passed and Chrysler gets a buyer, Mexico could be considered for JJ production, one source says.
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Wouldn't the Dodge Raider from the late 80's (rebadged early Mitsu Montero) have been this type of vehicle? They are about the same size as a Trackick.
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Even though it's old, it would still be nice to see sketches and ideas if they had any. Where did you find this being from the early 90's? Burried in the internet :D
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good article on it!
http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/jj.html
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I think I found a pic! :o
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Wow, that thing makes the AMC Pacer look pretty. Did they have to bring in specialized Ugly Designers in to come up with that look?
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Excellent net diggin' guys!
-Eric
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I don't know... I don't think it's that ugly... I'd drive one! LOL!
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it looks like a cross between a liberty/ jy/ 70 series land cruiser and sidekick! ;D
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Wow, that thing makes the AMC Pacer look pretty. Did they have to bring in specialized Ugly Designers in to come up with that look?
If you are referring to the whacky paint scheme, that probably is an attempt to make it hard for spies to make out what it ultimately will look like...
Too bad they didn't go through with it.
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Common guys, it was a Jeep/Chrysler product. Weak axles, high gearing, low powered engines, bad gas mileage, nice design ruined by crappy production result, unitized hub bearings that fail, probably an air activated front diff, ummm...should I continue?
Now if it had been designed by Mitsubishi or an Asian maker I bet the story would have been different...but...who can ever say. ???
Oh yeah, and the Raider was bigger than a Track/Kick. A Raider was just a rebadged Montero/Pajero. They were about the same size as a Bronco II, S10 Blazer, 2 door Cherokee, Trooper, etc. There was one in the paper a while before I found my Tracker and thinking it might be a possibility I looked into it. I was surprised by the size, I too remembered them being smaller, but I guess I was wrong. It was a rattle trap anyways so I walked away fast...
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FUGLY! not to mention that my 9 year old daughter would kill me for buying a "4 letter word car"
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Common guys, it was a Jeep/Chrysler product. Now if it had been designed by an Asian maker......
Yeah, what he said!
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it looks like a cross between a liberty/ jy/ 70 series land cruiser and sidekick! ;D
I think it has a decidedly "Liberty" look to it. ;D
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Woah, no wonder they scrapped the idea.....
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it might look better if you smashed it into a tree and had ALOTof mud on it.. hmmmmmm maybe not.. it's still frickin ugly....lol
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i thought the color scheme was for a release at halloween.
Ross
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Common guys, it was a Jeep/Chrysler product. Weak axles, high gearing, low powered engines, bad gas mileage, nice design ruined by crappy production result, unitized hub bearings that fail, probably an air activated front diff, ummm...should I continue?
Oh yeah, and the Raider was bigger than a Track/Kick. A Raider was just a rebadged Montero/Pajero. They were about the same size as a Bronco II, S10 Blazer, 2 door Cherokee, Trooper, etc. There was one in the paper a while before I found my Tracker and thinking it might be a possibility I looked into it. I was surprised by the size, I too remembered them being smaller, but I guess I was wrong. It was a rattle trap anyways so I walked away fast...
Your description above sounds like a newer Trackvit with the air activated front diff and high gearing and weak engine description. Every Jeep I've driven has a very low low range compared to my Tracker or Montero Sport.
Awhile back I parked next to an older Montero and it seemed to be close to the same dimensions as my Tracker. Today I looked at the specs on Edmunds. It was the same width as a Trackick, but about a foot longer. It was quite a bit heavier though, like 1300 pounds heavier.
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The average YJ of that era has 3.73 or 4.10 gears, some came with 3.55's. Even with a 2.72 low range that's not that impressive.
Our front air diffs aren't famous for dying or not fully engaging. Dodge's was so infamous they replaced it on the Jeeps. Never figured out why they kept it on the 94-01 Rams.
My GV has something like 4.6 axle ratios and it's not lacking for power. Maybe the powerband could be down lower but it isn't slow at any time. The 3" taller tires on it hardly slowed it down!
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it was before it's time, with a bit of redisigning, it could sweep through like wildfire. If it looked exactly like a tj only say 1500-2000 pounds lighter, it would kick butt
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I believe that picture is an old testing mule for the liberty, it is certainly not a 1989 era jeep or chrysler by any means.
Incidently, look for an article online about the new jeep wrangler......its pretty impressive but far too expensive to ever take off road. Has electric front and rear locking diffs, electric stabilizer bar to improve onroad sway control and still allow off road articulation, three piece hard top so you dont have to take the whole thing off to get some air, new engine, diesel option, etc.....
I know we are all suzuki fans, but it is still an impressive soft top.... too bad it isnt cheaper.....
too bad suzuki doesnt make soft tops any more.......
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anything new that is actually good for what we would do will be expensive we have to face it that if you really want one it will cost us or we will build an older vehicle and scavenge for parts....
it sucks that my coworkers look and my truck and then say " why don't you wash that thing" my wife knows there is no point cuz it looks the same ten minutes later. the people that sport cutes (car based suv that does not go anywhere) do not need a lo range since they will never crawl over anythnig except the rear seat since they cannot figure the back door out.
I love my trucklet and am torn between keeping it and buying a car or getting the Xterra for all round dd and light trail duty. really there is no samurai in north america or anything close to it
sooo saad!
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I wonder what will happen in 10+ years when all the trackicks are rotton/dead....... we'll have to switch over to jeeps............... :-X
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I wonder what will happen in 10+ years when all the trackicks are rotton/dead....... we'll have to switch over to jeeps............... :-X
No, they will still be making them in Spain. You'll have to move though. ;) Actuall it will be more than 10 years though. Many 1990's are still on the road and doing well. Since they stopped making them in 2004 you are probably good through 2020 or so.
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Move south, that's my plan. 8)
Errr wait, you're in Canada...guess you can't get out of the situation without immigrating.
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Dont worry. You always can buy suzuki of Santana in Spain. Now (2005-2006) the manufacture of the Vitara under another name has begun: Santana 300 or 350 (5p) :o
(http://magazine.avtoindex.com/bn_img_news.php?id=803)
(http://magazine.avtoindex.com/images/exclusive/2005/santana_300_2.jpg)
(http://santana.cz/media/ps350/67AW9903B.jpg)
(http://santana.cz/media/ps350/67AW9920.jpg)  Tunning!!! ::)
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What an infamous way to end its life >:(
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I like it because of what it is vs what it has become here in the States...but GAWD are those headlights OOOOGLY! :P
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Dont worry. You always can buy suzuki of Santana in Spain. Now (2005-2006) the manufacture of the Vitara under another name has begun: Santana 300 or 350 (5p) :o
I bet it still has Santana's dodgy build quality :(
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I like the taillights tho ;D
On the Zuki of course.
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Dont worry. You always can buy suzuki of Santana in Spain. Now (2005-2006) the manufacture of the Vitara under another name has begun: Santana 300 or 350 (5p) :o
I bet it still has Santana's dodgy build quality :(
Of course... VERY dodgy>:( >:( >:( >:(
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Suzuki could really try and dent the jeep market hard if they had brought the newer model jimny's into the US. Same size as a samurai, but coil springs, and very similar driveline to the samurai but with a newer style 1.3L, soft top and hard top options, solid front and rear axles, all the good stuff. They could have sold those better than the samurai's ever sold since they ride so much better. All they have to do is make them left hand drive for the US and canada and people would buy them. Their car sales are going ok, but something like a jimny would be really sweet. Think of all the high schoolers that would get them (parents would buy them cause they're cheap).
See images and stuff here. http://www.suzuki-samurai.nl/jimny/andere-jimnys/andere-jimnys.html
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Suzuki could really try and dent the jeep market hard if they had brought the newer model jimny's into the US. Same size as a samurai,
We have a Jimny. Its much bigger than it looks, pretty much the same size as a Track/Kick. The wheelbase is 2" longer than a Track/Kick as well.
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I'd take one, but I'd buy a jeep if I was buying something new. They are nice, but they just don't look as rugged as a samurai/jeep.
I agree though, we need a true samurai replacement.
Anyone know how strong the jimny's axles are?
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Hi,
Obviuosly the left hand drive Jimny already exists, many are sold in Europe and South America.
I don't think they will ever come to the US, not when the model is already 8 years old... It came out in 1998, so I don't see them coming to the US.
It's true they've got a lot of plastic on them, but it can be removed ;).
I don't see Jimny axles being much stronger than Samurai axles... :(
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I'd take one, but I'd buy a jeep if I was buying something new. They are nice, but they just don't look as rugged as a samurai/jeep.
I agree though, we need a true samurai replacement.
Anyone know how strong the jimny's axles are?
The diffs are smaller than a Samurai, about the same size as a 410. I'm told that Samurai axles are stronger.
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I think Chrysler canned the JJ concept due to the small volume expected, and its use of K car floorpan and powetrain components. Even the Chrysler execs of that time recognized how bad the K cars were compared to any other rivals domestic or foreign at the time. The K cars served their purpose during the restructuring of the early eighties, but were severely long in the tooth during the JJ concept development. How many aries etc... do you still see on the road now? I am guessing not too many. They were basic transportation at its worst and not really known for their durability under duress :)
Albeit the JJ was planned to be a direct countermeasure to the samurai, but economics changed and Consumer reports put the nail in the coffin of the samurai stateside.
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hummm the Suzuki Jimny MOAB, has a nice ring to it ;D :D
Stu
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([url]http://santana.cz/media/ps350/67AW9920.jpg[/url])
I like the taillights too HotRod!
are they US legal?
anyone know where to find them?
(or do I start another thread)
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that chrystler thing is ugly but I'm upset they didn't make it because we need more off roaders on the market really badly.. sure chrystler does things really wierd and stuff but oh well. Good to see 1st gen kicks still on the market even though the headlights look way too rice. Also, I agree that the jimny could have a really good market in the US. doesn't it not meet US safety ratings or something?
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doesn't it not meet US safety ratings or something?
No.
Do a search on this forum for Jimny. There was a big, long thread about it that ended fairly recently. We discussed this.
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yea, i think I was reading that one, I was pretty sure there was something said about the jimny not meeting safety standards in the US but I wasn't sure.