ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Maroon Monsoon on January 21, 2006, 09:41:22 PM
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I have a problem with my 4 wheel drive. Nothing is broken.. it just sucks right now. If I am at a stop sighn and I can hardly move in 2, I will push in the clutch, and put it in 4. Knowing that the front doesn't engage right away, i ease into it and try and start moving as slowly as possible, then the front drivetrain clunks and I'm in 4 wheel drive.
I am pretty sure this is 100% because of my POS automatic hubs. Does anyone know for sure.. I have a 2000 grand vitara
I am hoping some nice manual hubs would completely eliminate this problem.
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Yep, autos are slow to enguage
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thanks, one of my dumbass friends told me it was my T case but I was quick to tell him he was full of shit
I will get manual hubs and fix this problem, auto hubs are crap
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I thought Autos would be nice because if you
forget to lock them you don't have to get out
in the mud and lock them, BUT as it turns out,
they suck way more than mud on your shoes
Wild
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they suck way more than mud on your shoes
LOL..... yeah... that is an understatement!!
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He has a 2000, no auto hubs. He's got drive flanges. However he does have the air actuated front diff. Could be that? ???
On our 2003 the thing seems to clunk in pretty fast. The wife has never complained and the few times I've used it you pretty much have 4x4 as soon as you put it in 4x4.
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I wonderer about that, but he said auto hubs.
Could be the air activated system too
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Unless he swapped a pair on (why in god's name? ???) I bet he's just mistaken his drive flanges and not having manual hubs for auto hubs. Coming from IFS Chevy's and 94+ fullsize Dodges you wouldn't beleive how many people think their vehicles have auto hubs simply because they don't have dials to turn up there. :P
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Unless he swapped a pair on (why in god's name? ???) I bet he's just mistaken his drive flanges and not having manual hubs for auto hubs. Coming from IFS Chevy's and 94+ fullsize Dodges you wouldn't beleive how many people think their vehicles have auto hubs simply because they don't have dials to turn up there. :P
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/crusher-destroyer/th_Zuklackofhub.jpg) (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/crusher-destroyer/Zuklackofhub.jpg)
yea, this is what I think to be "my auto hubs" not so sure what they are now. Some other dude that put some warns on a GV said that it had auto hubs so that's what makes me think they could be auto hubs that are just a bit funny looking
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He has a 2000, no auto hubs. He's got drive flanges. However he does have the air actuated front diff. Could be that? ???
On our 2003 the thing seems to clunk in pretty fast. The wife has never complained and the few times I've used it you pretty much have 4x4 as soon as you put it in 4x4.
well, like I said, if you can hardly get traction it will clunk pretty hard once you finally get the front axle to roll enough to engage whatever it is.. hubs or drive flangers.. not sure because I've heard it has both from different people. thinking it's the drive flangers now.
is that 2003 a push button 4 wheel drive or a lever activated?.. mine's a lever.. maybe that makes a difference, I don't know... any input is greatly appreciated, if manual hubs would eliminate this problem I'm buying some.
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That is just a splined cap, you have the air operated diff. The diff is actuated by an air pump connected through the ECU to the 4wd light switch. As it actuates then I'm guessing that the hoses and pump are OK. I would change the diff oil and see if that makes any difference.
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Unfortunately, I can't lay my hands on any GV front-end information...  So let's take a look at various 4wd engagement systems:
First the tried-and-true locking hubs.  Turn the knob one way and the axle shaft is connected to the wheel.  Turn it the other way and the wheel is disconnected.  If the hubs are unlocked, it don't matter what mode the transfer case is in, you have 2 wheel drive.
Second, auto locking hubs.  Follow the instructions in the owners manual and they engage or disengage like a manual hub at the wheel -- if you hold your mouth just right.  Again, unlocked and you have 2 wheel drive no matter what mode the transfer case is set in.
Third, the slip-joint coupler in the front axle housing method.  Found on various Jeeps, this system consists of a sliding joint -- usually found on the long section of the front axle -- that disconnects the wheel from the differential.  The sliding coupler is acutated by a cable or a vacuum line through a button or lever in the passenger compartment. (EDIT: or as Rhinoman has suggested, electically through the ECU or the 4x4 indicator.)  The wheels are always connected to the front axle shaft (no locking hubs).  No matter what mode you have the transfer case in, if you don't push the button or pull the lever, you don't have 4-wheel drive.
Now, on to speculation...
A fourth possibility might be a combination of  two and  three above.  Upon putting the transfer case in 4-wheel drive, the energy transmitted through the front driveshaft causes the sliding coupler to move and lock the inner axle onto the outer axle putting the truck into 4 wheel drive.  When the transfer case is placed back into the 2 wheel drive mode, the coupler releases and the front wheels are running free again.
What do you think?
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(EDIT: or as Rhinoman has suggested, electically through the ECU or the 4x4 indicator.)
Not suggested, I have this system in the front of my Vit, and I have the schematics too ;D
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98 Europe and elsewhere and 99 US/Canada/elsewhere? to 05 Track/Vits/GVs/XL7s have drive flanges just like that picture above shows. There's a slide coupling and two peice axle shaft inside the axle tube similar to what YJ, TJ, XJ Jeeps and Grand Cherokees along with 94-02 Dodge Ram 4x4's had. It is activated by an air pump system. There's articles around here somewhere on guys swapping it out for a more conventional system. It's Suzuki adapting the previous gen's tried and true front axle setup to be more yuppie friendly without the problems associated with auto hubs. "I don't want to get out and turn those hubs..."
Ours is lever controlled, only the 04+ had push button I beleive. It works pretty much the minute you activate it, provided the manual hubs I put on are engaged.
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98 Europe and elsewhere and 99 US/Canada/elsewhere? to 05 Track/Vits/GVs/XL7s have drive flanges just like that picture above shows. There's a slide coupling and two peice axle shaft inside the axle tube similar to what YJ, TJ, XJ Jeeps and Grand Cherokees along with 94-02 Dodge Ram 4x4's had. It is activated by an air pump system. There's articles around here somewhere on guys swapping it out for a more conventional system. It's Suzuki adapting the previous gen's tried and true front axle setup to be more yuppie friendly without the problems associated with auto hubs. "I don't want to get out and turn those hubs..."
Ours is lever controlled, only the 04+ had push button I beleive. It works pretty much the minute you activate it, provided the manual hubs I put on are engaged.
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Unfortunately, I can't lay my hands on any GV front-end information...  So let's take a look at various 4wd engagement systems:
First the tried-and-true locking hubs.  Turn the knob one way and the axle shaft is connected to the wheel.  Turn it the other way and the wheel is disconnected.  If the hubs are unlocked, it don't matter what mode the transfer case is in, you have 2 wheel drive.
Second, auto locking hubs.  Follow the instructions in the owners manual and they engage or disengage like a manual hub at the wheel -- if you hold your mouth just right.  Again, unlocked and you have 2 wheel drive no matter what mode the transfer case is set in.
Third, the slip-joint coupler in the front axle housing method.  Found on various Jeeps, this system consists of a sliding joint -- usually found on the long section of the front axle -- that disconnects the wheel from the differential.  The sliding coupler is acutated by a cable or a vacuum line through a button or lever in the passenger compartment. (EDIT: or as Rhinoman has suggested, electically through the ECU or the 4x4 indicator.)  The wheels are always connected to the front axle shaft (no locking hubs).  No matter what mode you have the transfer case in, if you don't push the button or pull the lever, you don't have 4-wheel drive.
Now, on to speculation...
A fourth possibility might be a combination of  two and  three above.  Upon putting the transfer case in 4-wheel drive, the energy transmitted through the front driveshaft causes the sliding coupler to move and lock the inner axle onto the outer axle putting the truck into 4 wheel drive.  When the transfer case is placed back into the 2 wheel drive mode, the coupler releases and the front wheels are running free again.
What do you think?
yea, AJMBLAZER says I have drive flanges and the air activated actuator. So I'm thinking it's like the 4th possibility
I was thining those things didn't look much like hubs
so since it's pretty likely that I have the drive flange set up with and air actuator, what would I gain from manual hubs? also, I heard the mileage improves with manual hubs when they are free.. is this true? I think it is
Oh, one more thing, do I have to move a tadd to get the actuator to lock it into 4 wheel drive? That very well could be auto hub like characteristics.. again, not sure and that's why i'm asking
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You might have to move a teensy bit if the splines on the axleshafts weren't aligned, but we're talking less than a tire rotation.
We picked up no noticeable difference in mpg by putting the manual hubs on. The main reason I did it was to just save wear and tear on the stuff up front that would be spinning otherwise. Remember the reason auto hubs came around, drive flanges came back, and front axles without any sort of hub at all came around was because more yuppies started buying 4x4's and didn't want the work of owning a 4x4. So there wasn't anything wrong with or necessarily better than a manual hub, people just wanted something easier.
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You might have to move a teensy bit if the splines on the axleshafts weren't aligned, but we're talking less than a tire rotation.
We picked up no noticeable difference in mpg by putting the manual hubs on. The main reason I did it was to just save wear and tear on the stuff up front that would be spinning otherwise. Remember the reason auto hubs came around, drive flanges came back, and front axles without any sort of hub at all came around was because more yuppies started buying 4x4's and didn't want the work of owning a 4x4. So there wasn't anything wrong with or necessarily better than a manual hub, people just wanted something easier.
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You might have to move a teensy bit if the splines on the axleshafts weren't aligned, but we're talking less than a tire rotation.
We picked up no noticeable difference in mpg by putting the manual hubs on. The main reason I did it was to just save wear and tear on the stuff up front that would be spinning otherwise. Remember the reason auto hubs came around, drive flanges came back, and front axles without any sort of hub at all came around was because more yuppies started buying 4x4's and didn't want the work of owning a 4x4. So there wasn't anything wrong with or necessarily better than a manual hub, people just wanted something easier.
so does your 4 wheel drive engage any smoother with your manual hubs? also, doe the drive flange do anything? I know they hold whatnots and suchnots together and all, but other than that.. would you strongly recomend manual hubs?
also, all the vehicles are going yuppie thease days and it's pissing me off. I am stuck with a stupid air activated front diff no matter what unless I realy want to dump some money. Look at the new grand vitara for example.. they got rid of the idea of having a box ladder frame and went unibody, also did 4 wheel independent... what crap also the XL 7's and newer GV's right before the 06 had push button... it's not that bad, but why not a lever? is it that hard to pull a lever, especially in the GV where it's right next to you
I don't know, all the new vehicles are way too yuppie
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The engagement of the system really has nothing to do with the hubs if you already have them in. Locked in and functioning correctly there really isn't much difference between drive flanges and hubs. They're locked, that's it. If there's any issues you're having, it's somewhere else.
The drive flanges are stronger for extreme wheeling but in our case they were simply so Suzuki could put a fancy chrome plated cap on, run the air system, keep the yuppies happy, and not have to totally redesign the front suspension and axles on these things to keep said yuppies happy.
There's a reason I told the wife we'd be keeping the GV a good long while.
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Here's the article in case you are interested in getting rid of the air actuator in the diff.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm
Ditto on the yuppie SUV's. Got my wife the Tracker as the family car with 1 baby when it was brand new. Now she's moved on to a full size to carry 3 kids and the Tracker is my DD/toy. I plan on keeping it until it won't go anymore. Oh and one other thing, the Tracker will hold 2 car seats and an infant carrier. My oldest loves bouncing around offroad. Try doing that in a Wrangler.
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Here's the article in case you are interested in getting rid of the air actuator in the diff.
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm[/url]
Ditto on the yuppie SUV's. Got my wife the Tracker as the family car with 1 baby when it was brand new. Now she's moved on to a full size to carry 3 kids and the Tracker is my DD/toy. I plan on keeping it until it won't go anymore. Oh and one other thing, the Tracker will hold 2 car seats and an infant carrier. My oldest loves bouncing around offroad. Try doing that in a Wrangler.
thanks, I don't know if I will do that, but I do plan on manual hubs so I don't prematurely kill my front axle with regular driving. the other thing is that if I did put in a kick axle that didn't have a retarted air actuator, I will aready have good hubs for it
Yea, about the 2 car seat thing, one of the main resons I haven't seriously looked into trading my GV for a wrangler is lack of interior space, I carry a 4 12" guitar speaker cabinet allong with lots of other stuff when I go jam with my band
also, try getting 22.7 mpg in town with a wrangler, I can in a gv so ha. Wranglers are still really awesome though
Glad to see people in agreement with the overpopulation of yuppie vehicles