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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Quaddawg on February 16, 2006, 11:25:22 AM

Title: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on February 16, 2006, 11:25:22 AM
I looked around for a good topic on the easy way to remove the rear third on my tracker.. I couldn't find one.. so I will write one.

I put my Mini-spool in today, and it took a little over an hour and a half.. and part of that time was walking to my house to get my welder... and driving it back down to the garage in my truck.. lol.


OK, on a Tracker, it's simple.

Remove rear tires/wheels

Drain oil from diff

Remove brake drums (4 nuts, each side)

Remove top brake springs on each side (it is in the way of the bearing retainer sliding out)

Remove 8 nuts  (4 each side) on back of the brake backing plate. On mine, 7 came loose, and one spun.. so I just tack welded the stud to the bearing retainer, it came right off.

With a slide hammer (mine is  5 lb) break axles loose, and slide them out about 6 inches each side (careful with the seals)

Remove 4 bolts holding the third link to the top of the diff housing.

Remove 4 bolts holding driveshaft to pinion flange, hang out of way

Remove ABS sensor shield and wiring connector (if equipped)

Remove all nuts holding differential housing in

Break the pig loose with a large dead blow, or jack up on it  with some sort of jack.

It's out!


I put a mini spool in mine, then reset the backlash and bearing preload (that's another topic all together)

I used RTV sealant around the housing, and reinserted the pig. Tightened all bolts, reinstalled the top link mount, reinstalled the ABS wiring and shield. Reinstalled Driveshaft.

Ease the axles back in, taking care with axle seals and bearing retainer.

Reinstall nuts on back of backing plate to axle housing flange

Reinstall top spring on brakes, brake drum, and wheel..

Refill differential with appropriate gear lube

DONE


This is what it will look like when you are ready to pull the pig.

NO brake or brakeline disassembly, save for the one spring.. is needed.


Leave it like this:

It was a real breeze...





Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: binkie on February 16, 2006, 07:13:42 PM
What is a mini spool and how is it different from an auto locker?

Marc
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on February 16, 2006, 07:38:30 PM
Mini-spool is a solid piece of steel, machined to drop in and replace the spiders and side gears..

It is like having a solid rear axle, locked ALL the time.....
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: prairie_dog on February 16, 2006, 10:07:01 PM
 What's with the mini spool if you already had the welder out  ;D ;D ;D

  :D MILLERMATIC TRACTION ADDICT  :D

 Steve :)
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on February 18, 2006, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: prairie_dog on February 16, 2006, 10:07:01 PM
What's with the mini spool if you already had the welder out  ;D ;D ;D

  :D MILLERMATIC TRACTION ADDICT  :D

 Steve :)


Good lord, why bother welding when you have to take the whole carrier apart to even GET to the spiders... it's a HELL of a lot easier to drop in a minispool than weld these spiders.. yeah, I know it's been done.. but it't not like a GM 12 bolt where you can pull the cover and weld them in place...  I think welding the rear end is good if you are broke, and you can get to them easily, as in a Dana, or GM rear end.. but on a 3rd member style, you can't do that.. so why not drop in a mini-spool?  I think I paid what.......a hundred bucks for it?  no biggie..
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 03, 2006, 08:34:01 PM
I've been looking in my Hayne's manual... Is it important to make sure everything goes back together the exact way it came out.. Did you mark all the splines etc...

ERock
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 03, 2006, 08:53:14 PM
Within reason yes.. why did you bring up such an old topic?

Mechanical sense more than anything is what is important doing this work.. if you are changing gears, or adding a spool, you can't put the splines back in the same holes they came out of.... cause they aren't there....  lol..  Some things are important to put back exactly..

Like.. bearing caps.. bearing races  and just about anything that touches a bearing or gets "worn in"  other things don't make a difference at all.. like individual nuts and bolts...


common sense goes a long way in working on vehicles... and remember  Haynes manuals are written by people. not gods... lol...  People trying to keep the average shadetree mechanic from destroying his vehicle...   ;)
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Carnage on May 03, 2006, 08:57:44 PM
"why did you bring up such an old topic?"


because youre the man who did it!
(and he probbed wanted to know)


honestly wish I was around when people do stuff like this

learning should be like breathing
(you should always do it)
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 03, 2006, 09:03:53 PM
That's right... I was searching the forum for instruction and found this thread... I sent you an e-mail about the PDF for the backlash instruction you made.. Good Stuff!! Thanks for the effort Quaddawg!!!

ERock
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 04, 2006, 10:08:48 AM
It's all good.  Sorry, I didn't realize you found the thread actually searching for info before posting.. I wasn't upset at all, just wondering how you found that article..  hmmmmm, I guess it was a good thing that I posted that topic for others to find...

Good job. See guys, the search feature DOES work after all.. lol...


Peace
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: brlj on May 04, 2006, 01:54:35 PM
Dude your lucky your axles came out with that "little" 5lb hammer - lol..... When I took mine out I had to put a small block chevy harmonic balancer on the slide. Even with the extra weight it took me 1/2 hour to get the axles to come loose... :-\

Bill
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: crikeymike on May 04, 2006, 02:30:11 PM
getting that drain plug out can be a pain sometimes also...  Yeah, i've always needed a "slide hammer" of some type to get those axles out.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 04, 2006, 02:32:49 PM
We *made* our slide hammer out of another sidekick broken rear axle. LOL. Just slipped a piece of square tubing around it (2x2 I believe) and then welded a "butt" on the broken end.

The bolt holes line up perfect (axle to axle LOL) and just slide that 2x2 tubing back and smack it against the "butt".

Hah.

And really, if you're just replacing the rear third, just make sure you put everything back together the way you pulled it out (pretty easy) and the only thing that really "exactly" should be in place is the driveline splines. Don't worry about splines in the axles. You can't see them anyway.

:)
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ack on May 04, 2006, 04:09:34 PM
Quote from: Quaddawg on May 04, 2006, 10:08:48 AM
It's all good.  Sorry, I didn't realize you found the thread actually searching for info before posting.. I wasn't upset at all, just wondering how you found that article..  hmmmmm, I guess it was a good thing that I posted that topic for others to find...

Good job. See guys, the search feature DOES work after all.. lol...  Peace

Ya know, the ABSOLUTE BEST improvement you could make to that wonderful backlash/preload pdf document is to remake it with your name included as the author!   

Toot your own horn! It's a danged nice one!

I'll be ever vigilant to recieve an updated one for the FAQ! 

Heck, maybe I'll be able to get it online in les than fifteen minutes, this time!  ;D

BTW:  BIG Improvements coming to the FAQ VERY SOON!
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: legionnair on May 04, 2006, 04:35:05 PM
if you are broke and want to weld sidegears what you do is weld the teeth together on all but the ones where the spiders gears sit on both side gears grind so the filled in teeth have a smooth profile.  reassemble and with about 2-3 hours work and .50$ of welding wire you have a homemade mini spool

Dustin
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 04, 2006, 05:40:33 PM
Why do we have to take out the axle shaft?  Is this to free up the rear 3rd?  If I'm not putting in a locker or a spool, and just doing a straight diff swap?
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 04, 2006, 07:50:40 PM
Yes, the axles go into the 3rd member. It will become obvious to you when you get it out.

You don't have to take them all the way out either, just pull them 6 inches or so, don't pull the brake plate or anything. According to how your brake springs are set up, you may or may not have to move one out of the way on each side, I did.  You will most likely need the slide hammer, but they are cheap, or free loaner at AutoZone.

One time though this, and you will be fine. It is really quite simple once you do it. I had done just about everything but this type of rear end, and it was very very simple to me. With a lift and air tools, I can pull my third in 15 minutes or less.  20-25 on my driveway, but I am fat, and it takes me time to slide under... lol..


The last time I swapped gears, in my driveway, it took under an hour.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 04, 2006, 07:54:20 PM
(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7484/axle1ra.jpg)

Maybe this'll help.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 04, 2006, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: ack on May 04, 2006, 04:09:34 PM
Quote from: Quaddawg on May 04, 2006, 10:08:48 AM
It's all good.  Sorry, I didn't realize you found the thread actually searching for info before posting.. I wasn't upset at all, just wondering how you found that article..  hmmmmm, I guess it was a good thing that I posted that topic for others to find...

Good job. See guys, the search feature DOES work after all.. lol...  Peace

Ya know, the ABSOLUTE BEST improvement you could make to that wonderful backlash/preload pdf document is to remake it with your name included as the author!   

Toot your own horn! It's a danged nice one!

I'll be ever vigilant to recieve an updated one for the FAQ! 

Heck, maybe I'll be able to get it online in les than fifteen minutes, this time!  ;D

BTW:  BIG Improvements coming to the FAQ VERY SOON!

LOL,  I don't care if folks know I wrote that little thing... but if it'll appease you, I'll add it, if I can find the darned thing....

I LOVE your Faqs....   keep up the good work.

Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 05, 2006, 03:54:08 AM
Cool.. I'm on my way today to check out the 89 track/kick...  I'll let you know what I find.. Fingers Crossed...

ERock
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 05, 2006, 05:21:34 AM
And really, if you're just replacing the rear third, just make sure you put everything back together the way you pulled it out (pretty easy) and the only thing that really "exactly" should be in place is the driveline splines. Don't worry about splines in the axles. You can't see them anyway.

:)
Quote

Driveline splines, These have to be in exact place in reference to what part?  Are these the splines in the axle?  Is this something I mark and just line up when finished?
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 06:19:12 AM
Quote from: ERock on May 05, 2006, 05:21:34 AM
And really, if you're just replacing the rear third, just make sure you put everything back together the way you pulled it out (pretty easy) and the only thing that really "exactly" should be in place is the driveline splines. Don't worry about splines in the axles. You can't see them anyway.

:)
Quote


Driveline splines, These have to be in exact place in reference to what part?  Are these the splines in the axle?  Is this something I mark and just line up when finished?


Somebody else want to chime in here?

My drivelines are no longer slip yoke style like yours - but I'm pretty sure on yours, you just put a chalk mark line, or marker line from the driveline to where it connects with the tcase. Kind of an, alignment line. This way, the splines will line back up correctly, and you won't get vibration.

Sort of like:

(http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/slipjoint1.jpg)
 
(This picture isn't from a sidekick, and this is on the rear pinion so it looks funny but it expresses the line)
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 05, 2006, 07:20:44 AM
Ok, I got it... I thought you meant line it up to the third, but I'm replacing it (hopefully) with the 5.62's.  Another thing...

Was the diff housing aluminum in 89'

I haven't taken a close look at mine, is a 96' steel,

What year did they change?

Thanks for all the help,

ERock
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ack on May 05, 2006, 08:24:41 AM
Quote from: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 06:19:12 AM
Quote from: ERock on May 05, 2006, 05:21:34 AM
And really, if you're just replacing the rear third, just make sure you put everything back together the way you pulled it out (pretty easy) and the only thing that really "exactly" should be in place is the driveline splines. Don't worry about splines in the axles. You can't see them anyway.

:)
Quote


Driveline splines, These have to be in exact place in reference to what part?  Are these the splines in the axle?  Is this something I mark and just line up when finished?




Somebody else want to chime in here?

My drivelines are no longer slip yoke style like yours - but I'm pretty sure on yours, you just put a chalk mark line, or marker line from the driveline to where it connects with the tcase. Kind of an, alignment line. This way, the splines will line back up correctly, and you won't get vibration.

Sort of like:

([url]http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/slipjoint1.jpg[/url])
 
(This picture isn't from a sidekick, and this is on the rear pinion so it looks funny but it expresses the line)




The key to proper driveshaft installation is to have the yoke in the same plane of rotation with each other.  I have yet to monkey with my TracKicks' driveshafts, but I seem to remember the slipjoint is actually on the end -- not between -- the yokes as is the case with the Samurai and many other vehicle driveshafts.  So the yoke alignment concerns do not apply.  Balance issues may exist, so I always mark the shaft at the flange so it goes back together like it came apart.

If you are interested, there is a video on how to reassemble a driveshaft at Ack's FAQ. Do a search for driveshaft.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 08:34:50 AM
Quote from: ERock on May 05, 2006, 07:20:44 AM
Ok, I got it... I thought you meant line it up to the third, but I'm replacing it (hopefully) with the 5.62's.  Another thing...

Was the diff housing aluminum in 89'

I haven't taken a close look at mine, is a 96' steel,

What year did they change?

Thanks for all the help,

ERock

All Track/Kicks are aluminum. All Samurais, some GV's, and I think all XL7's are steel.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 08:37:10 AM
Quote from: ack on May 05, 2006, 08:24:41 AM
Quote from: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 06:19:12 AM
Quote from: ERock on May 05, 2006, 05:21:34 AM
And really, if you're just replacing the rear third, just make sure you put everything back together the way you pulled it out (pretty easy) and the only thing that really "exactly" should be in place is the driveline splines. Don't worry about splines in the axles. You can't see them anyway.

:)
Quote


Driveline splines, These have to be in exact place in reference to what part?  Are these the splines in the axle?  Is this something I mark and just line up when finished?




Somebody else want to chime in here?

My drivelines are no longer slip yoke style like yours - but I'm pretty sure on yours, you just put a chalk mark line, or marker line from the driveline to where it connects with the tcase. Kind of an, alignment line. This way, the splines will line back up correctly, and you won't get vibration.

Sort of like:

([url]http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/slipjoint1.jpg[/url])
 
(This picture isn't from a sidekick, and this is on the rear pinion so it looks funny but it expresses the line)




The key to proper driveshaft installation is to have the yoke in the same plane of rotation with each other.  I have yet to monkey with my TracKicks' driveshafts, but I seem to remember the slipjoint is actually on the end -- not between -- the yokes as is the case with the Samurai and many other vehicle driveshafts.  So the yoke alignment concerns do not apply.  Balance issues may exist, so I always mark the shaft at the flange so it goes back together like it came apart.

If you are interested, there is a video on how to reassemble a driveshaft at Ack's FAQ. Do a search for driveshaft.



Thanks, Ack. I wasn't sure how important getting alignment up on a slip-style shaft was.

I always remember putting some kind of alignment markings on mine in the past, before I went SAS though - just didn't want any trouble.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 05, 2006, 09:10:14 AM
Front housings on kicks are aluminum, rear is steel.


You aren't going to be messing with any splines at all, other than axle splines....

The drive shafts are going to unbolt, and bolt back to different pinion flanges, so you can't put them back either..

So, the word "splines" is confusing here.


The only thing you are really going to be messing with, that requires it to go back together just as you took it apart......... is   NOTHING REALLY!!!     

If you are just swapping in thirds......  drop the driveshafts by unbolting the flanges  don't even take them out... SO.... you don't have to worry about them.. they will only bolt back up to the pinion flanges two different ways, 180 degrees out... er... maybe they will bolt on four ways.. it might be square.. BUT the point is, it's the flange, and doesn't matter... iand the pinions will be different, they don't care which holes are bolted to the driveshaft. You have to worry about that alignment only if you have a slip shaft, and you can get the U-Joints out of phase, you can't in this case.

The splines in the axles are going into different side gears in the different thirds... so you can't realign those splines.. and once again, it isn't balanced that way, so no difference in how you slide the axles in.

Hmmmm.... I am having a hard time thinking of ANYTHING on a simple 3rd member swap that has to go back with care on original alignment..


am I daffy here? did I forget something??


This is a simple straight forward swap... except the losing of the rear ABS Sensor..



not to mention it depends on a 89 Tracker even HAVING the 5.62's in the first place.. a REAL long shot.. most wrecking yards I have talked to have not even HEARD of that ratio..



One thing at a time. Get the gears, come on back and take it one step at a time. There are no great mysteries on a simple 3rd member swap, and once you do it, it will all be clear as day.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: hcgalvin on May 05, 2006, 09:27:36 AM
Oh DUH. Yah back is steel front is aluminum. LOL.   ::)

Wow. Can't believe I slipped.

Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 05, 2006, 03:48:12 PM
Went junkyardin and they did end up being 5.12's... Ah well... Gives me something to hunt for, which is half the fun... Now I am still going to look for removing front diff. so I'm prepared.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: ERock on May 06, 2006, 04:10:42 AM
Will just the 5.62 ring and pinion gear swap out of an existing diff with 5.12's?  I get the idea that's a whole other story with setting things up which I can post if it ever happens.  Just wondering.  Some junkyards do charge less if you just strip out the R&P's..
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Quaddawg on May 06, 2006, 05:55:14 AM
Yes for the front, no for the rear, unless you grab the carrier too...  the 5.62's have a 10 bolt ring gear, and  93 and up have a 12 bolt carrier.
Title: Re: Removing rear 3rd on Tracker
Post by: Rhinoman on May 06, 2006, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: ERock on May 06, 2006, 04:10:42 AM
I get the idea that's a whole other story with setting things up which I can post if it ever happens. 

If you swap the R&Ps you will need to set up the clearances (backlash) in the diff and/or the pinion preload using a new crush sleeve. You might want to invest in an FSM if you're going to do that.