ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ningram1 on February 20, 2006, 10:54:00 AM
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Hi all
I got the money together for a new cam and gas flow job on the spare cylinder head I've got ;D
I'm looking for low and mid range power
what camshaft do people recommend?
Thanks
Nick
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8 Valve or 16 Valve ?
Any cam is an improvement,
Hawks has a 16V cam that
should work well for you.
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8 Valve or 16 Valve ?
Any cam is an improvement,
Hawks has a 16V cam that
should work well for you.
Aw c'mon Wild I expect more from you like..........TURBO it.
;D
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At least he could show us how to grind the back side of the cam with a 4" black and decker grinder ;D
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I have a smog legal 8V cam, had it
custom ground before performance
parts were available, noticeable
improvment over stock. Cost me 4
hours drive and $200, but I'll get
you a custom ground cam for $30,
I'll use my 4" angle grinder ;D
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;D
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I have a smog legal 8V cam, had it
custom ground before performance
parts were available, noticeable
improvment over stock. Cost me 4
hours drive and $200, but I'll get
you a custom ground cam for $30,
I'll use my 4" angle grinder  ;D
What lift and duration? ;)
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What lift and duration?
Lots of both :)
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D'oh ::) should have said
92 Vitara 8 valve single point injection
I'm in the UK, was thinking of the Calmini cam, but if there's a better one out there....
Ta
Nick
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No One got any opinions on this then? ???
Nick
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Things to watch on cam selection (In my opinion)
RULE OF THUMB
Where do you want your power?
The stock cam (by memory) in your engine is 200 degrees duration and .350" lift
If you want more power up higher then you will need more duration...ie: 220 degrees
If you want more power down lower then you need less duration...ie: 180-190 degrees
More lift is a gain but lots of lift can be tough on the valve train (found out the hard way)
I would not exceed .395"
As a rule of thumb there are always exceptions but over the years I have found it to be 90% correct. (My experience).
Post more detailed engine specs (got a header or other mods?) with where you want your power and the kind of gains you are looking for and maybe myself or others can be more exact.
Zag
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I had a cam from calmini...
It was to long....
Took it back to them and the ground off the difference on the gear...
After that everything matched up....
But the engine ended up dieing a few months later...
Im not sure if the cam did ir or not...but I bent a rod....
Got an engine from asianauto....with his custom cam, seems a bit more perky....
(still going to swap in a 16v though)
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Zag
Engine is stock - I run a K & N flat panel filter, and I have a 4 bracnh manifold (think you call them headers).
I have 5.83 R & Ps, otherwise stock transmission, and with 33" Goodyear MTRs the gearing is back to stock (checked on GPS).
It's just about liveable with, both on and of road. But in the summer when I want to tow my folding camper it will be a PITA.
I reckon I have a choice - either sammy t case swap, or get more power from the motor. A friend has just done the t case swap, he has gone back to stock R & Ps, he runs 32" tyres and is running at 4k rpm at 60. So if I do the same swap I would also have to go back to standard R & Ps... trouble is I have a shoulder injury so would have to pay someone to do all of the above.
Other option - find more power form the motor. I have a spare cylinder head, that's in better condition than the one on the truck at the moment, and have found a cylinder head specialist near home, so I thought if I can get more torque between 2 and 4k RPMs that will help when lugging the camper.
I reckon a cam tuned for more torque and gas flow job would do the trick?
Yoak thanks for the info on the calmini cam, think I will drop Hawk a line...
Cheers
Nick
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Zag
Engine is stock - I run a K & N flat panel filter, and I have a 4 bracnh manifold (think you call them headers).
I have 5.83 R & Ps, otherwise stock transmission, and with 33" Goodyear MTRs the gearing is back to stock (checked on GPS).
It's just about liveable with, both on and of road. But in the summer when I want to tow my folding camper it will be a PITA.
I reckon I have a choice - either sammy t case swap, or get more power from the motor. A friend has just done the t case swap, he has gone back to stock R & Ps, he runs 32" tyres and is running at 4k rpm at 60. So if I do the same swap I would also have to go back to standard R & Ps... trouble is I have a shoulder injury so would have to pay someone to do all of the above.
Other option - find more power form the motor. I have a spare cylinder head, that's in better condition than the one on the truck at the moment, and have found a cylinder head specialist near home, so I thought if I can get more torque between 2 and 4k RPMs that will help when lugging the camper.
I reckon a cam tuned for more torque and gas flow job would do the trick?
Yoak thanks for the info on the calmini cam, think I will drop Hawk a line...
Cheers
Nick
do the trany case swap and ill treid you r&ps. mine a little cash for yours.
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Hello again
All the info you gave was great, missing one thing though!
Where do you want your power.
Think of the cam sorta like the engines brain, it tells the rest of the engine at what rpm the peak hp and torque are going to occur.
So YOU really need to get a handle on where you want your power increase to be.
Let me know and I will see if there is something I know of to help you out.
Zag
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Zag
Looking for more pulling power between 2 and 4k RPMs. Not too bothered about top end.
I'm no mechanic, so just need an idea of which is the best aftermarket cam for the job.
Thanks
Nick
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Hey ho
That helps........
To drop the hp and torque peaks to where you want your power it would be ideal to get a cam with 180-190 duration and a lift in the area of .375-.395".
I saw a little tractor with a Zuk in it and it had a cam with roughly those specs installed and it pulled like a little monster.......but the power drops off over 4500-5000rpm (shorter duration).
Check around to see if you can get one reground in the UK, alternatively check to cam manufacturers websites and find the specs on what they are offering.
Hope the opinions help
Tom H
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I think Kent can do a grind for an 8V, I've only ever had one cam from Kent though and it wasn't very good. I would get it flowed first and then choose the cam, if you get it flowed by someone with a flow bench they will be able to tell you what lift you need (the better the flow the more lift you need). To some extent you will have to do a trade between duration and lift to maintain a sensible valve acceleration rate. IIRC there's a place near you that does custom grinds (Newman cams?). I would ensure that the cam is either ground from billet or built up and then ground back, a straight regrind can do horrible things to rocker angles.
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This is my specialty.
Since you are in the UK, its not really feasable for you to buy from me, and there is no way I can compete with Hawks pricing. On the other hand, I specialize, and they retail.
Stock duration on the 1.3 8V cams is 192 with .330" lift. 1.6 cams are 202 duration, and .356" lift.
You don't want to drop any in the duration. Its already a little too low. Keep lift at, or below .400", and you will be fine. A reground cam is fine for your application. Don't waste money on having one welded. Its costly, and unnecessary. Several stock aplications have a profile that should be pretty close to what you are looking for.
Stock 260 Z lobes are 205 duration, and .280" lobe lift. It would give you about a .375" gross lift. Mitsu 2.9/2.4/2.6 are in and around these numbers as well. Most good sized automotive machine shops should have these masters. Just tell them what you are trying to do, and they should be able to take care of it.
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Superfly, if you don't need to weld then thats good. How are you measuring duration? Do you have any timing figures?
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i bought a cal-mini cam and header for my '90 8v tracker. it runs great. about the same power as stock off idle. (not much), but once it gets over 2,000 RPM, it is strong and starts dropping off around 4,500 RPM. I have run it up to almost 6,000 RPM. I rebuilt it, and after breaking it in, I ran it hard a couple of times. I figured if it was gonna blow, I'd do it now.
No cat. Crappy OEM size exhaust which I am about to throw in the trash.
A custom grind can sounds nice.... I still have my OEM cam on the shelf. ;D
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Superfly, if you don't need to weld then thats good. How are you measuring duration? Do you have any timing figures?
Welding up the lobes is only required for extremely radical profiles, in this application. Something we will likely never need.
I degree everyone of my cams, and new grinds in a head, on the bench with a degree wheel.
What kind of numbers are you looking for?
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Welding up the lobes is only required for extremely radical profiles, in this application. Something we will likely never need.
I degree everyone of my cams, and new grinds in a head, on the bench with a degree wheel.
What kind of numbers are you looking for?
I was looking for opening/closing times and the lift at which they were measured. The only figures I found for an 8V Zuk were from Kent for a Spanish 1.3.
Application Power Band Cam Lift(mm) Valve Lift(mm) Duration Timing Full Lift VC (mm) LTDC Required Parts
Supersports 3000-7500 6.98 10.21 285 Deg 34/71 34/74 108 Deg 0.25 N/A N/A
Related Products List: Part No. Part Type Description
SZ6 Camshaft Supersports
Application Power Band Cam Lift(mm) Valve Lift(mm) Duration Timing Full Lift VC (mm) LTDC Required Parts
Sports 2000-6500 6.07 8.83 276 Deg 28/68 68/28 110 Deg 0.25 N/A N/A
Sorry, that doesn't cut and paste very well, original is here:
http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=SZ5&CatID=1&PartID=357&VehPartID=3078&ModEngID=247
US sites only seem to quote duration and lift which doesn't give the whole story. I like to see what the overlap is too. I have found that it can make a significant diffrence if one cam is quoted at 0.5mm lift and another at 1mm, the Kent is quoted at 0.25mm which is quite a small clearance.
Edit: I forgot, I also found this, which gives the timing for a stock Jap 1.3:
http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~jeff/cam.htm
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I have an 88 Samurai. I've found three places that seem to sell cams, but no one bothers to publish the lift/duration/overlap :'(
http://www.roadlessgear.com/page/RGL/PROD/E/RGE110
http://www.puresuzuki.com/mid-range_camshaft.htm
http://www.hawksuzukiparts.com/
I use my Sami as a "summer vehicle". More of a daily driver, with light duty offroading. So, I want a cam that's going to be mostly responsive in the mid-range / daily driving conditions.
Anyone have any experience with these cams? Anyone pass cali emmissions with one of these? I am not really into doing a custom grind 'cause I don't know enough about cams for something like that 8)
~J~
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Anyone running one of the above cams in a 1.3l???
~J~