ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ZeusZuki on February 22, 2006, 08:17:03 AM
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Hi Team,
I was just reading through a thread and I see CJ has just got a new toy ;)
For anyone interested. I have just fitted a Calmini 3" lift kit under my 2.0l V6.
EVERYTHING bolted up no problem. The only thing requiring modification was the Diff drop brackets - because the chassis is wider and the front housing is the same as the 1600's I had to space the drivers side ( passengers to you American viewers ) 25mm and cut the passenger side ( drivers side for our American friends ) , realign it then weld it back up. The Cv's and half shafts sit flat ;D
Because the V6 is heavier than the 1600 the front springs are quite well matched to the weight of the vehicle and it rides very well.
Suspension travel off road is VERY good as a result - the front end works incredibly well compared to stock. The back works way better than stock but you all know this already.
I am running 30.5" tyres actual ( measured ) and only had to trim the front bumper a little for clearance :) The tyres are 16" 235/85
I will get some pics today if anyone is interested.
PS: Over here in NZ we get a rebadged Zuk V6 called a Mazda Proceed. This is what I have. They have bigger injectors and a bigger throttle body stock compared to the Suzuki badged vehicles = way more power. I have driven plenty of 2.5 V6's and this thing will eat them. I have even lined up against 2.5's and left them ;D and still get 10 km/l
Rumour has it that the original 2.0 V6 was sourced from Mazda. The same motor can be found in the Ltd edition 4x4 323 and Unos Mazda vehicles. Suzuki then developed this base motor further until it became the 2.7l donk we see today.
ZeusZuki
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Cool 8) Please post some pics. I know this has been a question floating around the Suzuki BBS's for a while now. Thanks for the info.
Zig
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We have one in our club fitted with the Calmini already and mine will get fitted in the near future. The mods to the diff drop brackets aren't to bad. I knew there was a Mazda badged version but not that it had motor variations. Can you check a couple of things for me? The Mazda version of the engine as used in the Eunos etc. was a KF engine and I think this also ran a timing belt not chain. Is the one in yours a KF or a H20A engine? Also, I 'd love to know the throttle body and injector size in yours ;D I know my old lwb worked better with the 3" suspension than my swb too. I found out that the 2.5 is a straight swap and now I have found someone else who has done a straight swap from 2.5 to 2.7 with no changes in a GV so there are some options there too.
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Hi CJ,
The motor is a H20A. We have a big Suzuki wrecker over here and he has pulled just about every Suzuki type ever made. He then measures everything and works out what will fit into what - a very handy man to know ;)
As for the throttle body and injector specs, I will see if I can find out more for you - no promises though but I will try.
Said wrecker has also fitted a 2.5 into a 2.0 - he found the electrics to be different and not compatible at all - the engine runs but the fuel mixture is way off :(
Someone in your club already fitted a Calmini 3" kit - anyone think about posting it when it was done >:( so the Zuk community could get the wheels turning a little more.
Q: CJ is the 2.0 stuffed :'( and if not why do you feel compelled to do a swap ??? My experience is that the 2.0 motors go very well and do not justify all the hastle and expence of a swap :o
Just curious,
I may be wrong about the Unos but there is definitely stock road cars running the same donk it is just the Alzeimis setting in :P
ZeusZuki
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Be great if you could find out that info.
They did the Calmini thing quite a long time ago and don't do the forum thing. There has been someone else who has done it though and posted pics on their site.
The 2.0 has the dreaded timing chain rattle and a leaking rear main seal. I have been looking at the swap option as I could get reasonable money for my engine and auto complete and pick up a wrecked 2.5 GV or even a XL-7 at the auctions to drop in without it really costing anything and given that I would be putting the money from the repairs towards the swap as well it is similar cost either way I go and the swap gives me more capacity. It will depend on whether I can pick up a wreck soon or not.
I have been getting differing feedback on the swap and I'm starting to think it may depend on what year 2.0 you are starting with and what year 2.5 or 2.7 you are trying to swap in so I need to do a little more research in that respect. I'm not to worried if I stay 2.0 especially if I can upgrade it to be like yours, it's just that the swap seems to be a cost effective option.
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I see where you are coming from CJ ;) - makes perfect sense to me :). I suggest you get a wreck and swap all the engine management stuff over so the thing runs right and gives good performance / economy - just a thought mind.
If you do decide to do the chains and main seal ( the seal one is a real bugger ) then make sure you fit new chain guides and CLEAN OUT THE OIL PUMP FILTER MESH- often overlooked :-[ but very important :-\
Good luck with it all and let me know how things progress ;D
Just going to snap some shots of my Vit - be back soon.
ZeusZuki
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We had one here have the oil pump shaft fail. Not pretty and not cheap due the all the other damage that it caused.
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Hi Team,
Sorry I have not posted the pics yet :-[ but I went outside with camera in hand only to discover that it was at our local Suzuki dealer. I forgot that I had taken a GV home for apprasal ::)
I am out of town at present but promise to take some pic's when I get home :-\
On the plus side though - the GV is Awesome. It is a 2.5l V6 manual and well it now lives in my garage next to my X90 ;D - I am in love :-* I had no idea how much better they are than the early Vits - I mean WOW :o I guess a Calmini 2.5" kit and body lift will be heading my way soon ;)
ZeusZuki
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Any joy finding out about the different throttle body and injectors in the Proceed? I had a look in the owners manual and it gives 10.9l/100km highway and 13.3l/100km urban and I'm getting 11l/100km highway(although that is at a higher speed than they test at) and 12.5-13l/100km. Not quite your 10l/100km and some more power would be nice too.
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Hi cj,
Been out of town - thus the lack of activity :-\
Will get my A into G and get some pic's at least.
10km / litre - still get this with my rig fitted with true 31's :o . I tell you, I am very surprised at this. Cruising speed of 100 - 110 km/hr too ;D. It actually seems to prefer the larger tyres ??? - weird aye.
I was actually just about to sell it after getting my 2.5 V6 manual GV, but I am not sure selling it would be a wise decision ::) :( I really like the little 2.0 and would be sad to see it go :'(> Not to mention - it goes like stink ;D and I do not mind knocking it around a bit :-X
Ohhhhh - so many Suzuki's , so little time ( or is that money ;D )
ZeusZuki 8)
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I just fitted some 29's today for my daily driving and I almost thought it was better, maybe I wasn't wrong. I'll be interested to see what happens with the mileage figures. I've still got to swap out the 4.875's for 5.125's at some stage. That will be better for when I run my 32's for offroad.
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Not to get too off topic, but how much lift to you guys think the CALMINI Lower Arms actually add to the total 3 inch lift?
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After a little bit of thought, that is easy.... 2 inches.
http://www.puresuzuki.com/2_lift_kit.htm
Replaces the control arms but not the front springs ;D
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After a little bit of thought, that is easy.... 2 inches.
[url]http://www.puresuzuki.com/2_lift_kit.htm[/url]
Replaces the control arms but not the front springs ;D
Well slap me around and call me Sally! :-X I should have know better, and looked at thier website.
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Got me thinking and now I want to know what size throttle body and injectors are used on the 2.5 and 2.7 too. Wonder if there is a good upgrade there somewhere. Must do some hunting.
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Yeah you might be onto something there cj, the 2.5 and 2.7 donks could be potential donors - it does sound expensive though ( unless you can find some blown motors for parts ), good luck on this if you look into it ;D
As you and I know, Suzuki seems to build "prototype" vehicles that they release for sale into the Japanese market to gauge upgrades intended for future models ;)
The "wide body" Vits appear to be a prototype for the GV's. They sort out drive train and suspension for future models. This is also evident if you look at the sammy range as well. While it is true that the next generation does have its own unique configuration there is definitely some similarities.
From my experience with Suzuki motor cycles it is evident of certain proven parts continued through to the next model. Suzuki seem a little reserved in this respect but then why change a proven thing - especially when you are already tooled up to produce thousands of them :o
Remember the RG500 road bike - you could bolt RGB road racer engine parts onto the street version without much modification ( the cases are almost identical ). Just one example. And the GSR series...............................................................you getting the gist of all this?
What are your thoughts on this cj ???
I mean we are very lucky because we get "Japanese only" vehicles that a lot of countries never see :)
ZeusZuki 8)
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I always like to investigate all options, you never know where it might lead. Given your comments on your 2.0 with respect to the power and economy it got me thinking and researching. I haven't really bothered looking into the noise I'm hearing properly yet. With these engines it may be related to the hydraulic lash adjusters/lifters, carbon knock, friction gear or the timing chain tensioners. I'm going to have a proper look at it and see if I can determine the cause. I found some Mazda TSB info that relates to all of the above except the timing chain as they ran a belt on the KF. A series of oil changes and a flush may be on the agenda to see if that makes any difference and start running it on 5W/30 synthetic. If the problem can be solved relatively easily and cheaply then staying with it but with a couple of simple mods to improve it may be best way to go. The 2.5 or 2.7 swap is always there as fallback position. If there is a larger throttle body available that will improve the torque on the 2.0 that would be nice to know the variations between the 2.0 (& your Proceed), 2.5 and 2.7 with regards to items like the throttle body and injectors etc. Even the Mazda KF-ZE or the KL series engines may provide some options that could be retrofitted. There may even be cam options available.
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You are particularly fortunate with all the JDM imports into NZ as it means more options at the wreckers. The wreckers here aren't generally that knowledgeable or accommodating when trying to work out what might be able to be used on other models which makes it harder to work out mods.
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If you get an opportunity can you have a look at your injectors and see what colour is around them? Also if you can get a pic of your intake manifold that would be cool too. Just trying to see if there are any visible differences a Mazda had a variety of intake manifolds and the injector colour may identify the injector rate.
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cj,
Just checked my vehicles out back and here goes:
'92 Escudo 1600 16V - Pink injectors
'95 2.0 V6 Proceed - Pink injectors
'96 X90 - Yellow injectors
'99 2.5 V6 GV - Green injectors
I can check my wifes '99 2.0 4cyl GV later if you like too?
Both throttle bodies on the V6's are made by Hitachi - I will see if I can find any model / serial numbers or the likes that may help identify them apart. At this stage they look identical ::) .
ZeusZuki 8)
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Pink injectors on mine too and a Hitachi throttle body. Can't see any identifying marks either without taking it off at this stage. I know that on the K series engines the 1.8 V6 used a smaller 180cc injector and the 2.0 KF and 2.5 KL both used a 220cc injector.
I've had a bit a listen to the engine and I think it may be the hydraulic adjusters so I'm going to try a series of oil and filter changes and an engine flush to see if that will fix it.
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cj,
You seem to know quite a bit about this engine stuff - how come ???
ZeusZuki
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??? What I know is nothing compared to some of guys around here. I like to learn I guess, do a little reading, ask a few questions and have a go from time to time. Most things can always be brought back to basics.
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FINALLY - a pic :-\
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Today I was told that the 2.0 V6 and 2.5 V6 have the same size throttle body, possibly a 65mm and the 2.0 4cyl has a slightly smaller throttle body, maybe 60mm. These sizes still need confirmation. The other thing I was told is that one of the Suzuki Dealers here recommends an engine flush at every oil change for the V6 and 5W/30 synthetic oil and also substitutes one litre of oil with one litre of Morey's Lubricant and it seems to keep them running silent and looks after the timing chain tensioners too. The guy I was talking to has a business modding Zuks and also has a 2.0 V6 and he also follows this routine. His Vit has 250,000kms on the clock and sounds quieter than a newer GV. He seems to think that these are the strongest engines and have a very long life IF looked after but they are a pain to work on.
Here's mine still stock suspension on 29"s
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Yeah I heard from our local Zuk dealer that you need to run 5w/30 oil. A friend of mine actually took this advice and all of sudden his V6 sounds heaps quiter ( she was a bit of a rattler - even with recently installed chains and guides ).
What is "Morey's Lubricant" ??? Never heard of it.
It is VERY reasuring to hear that these motors are strong - I have heard all sorts of horror stories - but this may boil down to poor maintenance ;)
Personally I just love these motors - they perform pretty well and sound soooooooooooooo good when you wind them up ;D
Sounds like you are going to stick with the 2.0 :) Maybe there is some potential in there after all ;)
Your rig looks good - any plans for the future? Pic of mine when it was stock ::)
ZeusZuki 8)
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http://www.moreyoil.co.nz/
I'll be swapping everything over from my swb so that means the Calmini 3" suspension, t-case gears, front and rear airlockers with 5.12's, steel front housing and LHS driveshaft on the RHS. I've got some 7.50x16's with Secondair internal beadlocks on 2.0 Vit V6 steel rims for offroad. I'm working on how to setup a Safari snorkel at the moment. I've got some Toy CV's waiting but I need to know the compressed length of the 2.0 V6 CV/driveshaft and Stan's adapter flange thickness to work out what thickness to get Stan to make the flange for mine. I'll also be making a custom front bar to take the highmount I've picked up and some sliders. Then there's always the future projects like the rear bar with swingaway carrier, full floater rear axle and rear disc conversion and long range fuel tank. I'm trying to get away without the bodylift.
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The donor..
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Looks good, I still wish they would come back out with another soft top. I would love to do something with a newer ride, but I love the topless wheeling.
Zig
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Looks good, I still wish they would come back out with another soft top. I would love to do something with a newer ride, but I love the topless wheeling.
Zig
You got that right, it just doesn't feel like a zuk if it's not topless ;D It makes the winter topless runs that much more fun ;D
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We have a big Suzuki wrecker over here and he has pulled just about every Suzuki type ever made. He then measures everything and works out what will fit into what - a very handy man to know ;)
Is this Te Puke Partsworld or is it another one?
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Looks good, I still wish they would come back out with another soft top. I would love to do something with a newer ride, but I love the topless wheeling.
Zig
You got that right, it just doesn't feel like a zuk if it's not topless ;D It makes the winter topless runs that much more fun ;D
Don't disagree but I wanted the wheelbase and I get a bigger 70l/17.5 gallon gas tank as standard and even more room to fit a bigger one eventually. Now if Suzuki would do a longer wheelbase softop that would be 8)
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Injector sizes
2.0 V6 193cc
2.5 V6 280cc
2.7 V6 240cc
Now if only I could find out the valve sizes and cam specs to see if there is a head upgrade in there somewhere.
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Hey guys, I'm in the Sydney Suzuki 4WD club, and a friend told me of your thread. I too have the same 2.0 V6, and contemplated at one stage of changing over the throttle body. I had heard from a wrecker here that the body on the 2.5 is supposed to be bigger....and he had suggested swapping that in...
I've always been desperate to try and get more power outta the thing....my fuel consumption figures are about the same as you've quoted, near spot on....approx 11L highway, and 12-13L city.
I'll fill you in on my mods so far:
3" suspension lift, simply longer springs, OME struts and Rancho shocks.
225/75/16 tyres on GV steel rims (0.5" wider with 0.5" change in offset)
5.125 diff ratios
I've tried all sorts of (failed) things to increase power and attempt to lower fuel consumption. In comparision to the GV engine, mine is a bit of a hungry slug. If only I could get 10L, it's happened only a few times....I've cut back the air intake a little inside the drivers guard. A friend of mine with the same model found the pipe had up against the plate behind the headlight. High flow air filter. I also got desparate and installed one of those Hiclones, and found it did provide a small difference in low end power. After around 80,000km I started running 10W, then 5W, now full synthetic 5W oil. My engine is noisey, I think the lighter oil makes it even noiser. It races on startup when cold and could be mistaken for a diesel. But once warmed up it quietens down. I have reasonably good power since the diff ratios were changed. Prior to that it pretty bad. But with my experience not matter what I've done to improve fuel economy it's pretty much all the same. Although I did play around with the air intake sensor on my last trip fooling it to thinking it was cooler air, got a good noticable increase in power and fuel consumption was actually pretty good for alot of heavy low range driving...was climbing steep hills in L2 under 1000rpm, and could crawl up in L1 400rpm.
A good service thing I've found is to remove the MAF sensor and make sure it's 100% clean. Any dirt on this sucker and it kills the power and chews more fuel. I check it ever 12 months now.
Sorry if I've just hijacked your thread a little....but very interested in what you guys have been discussing.
Cheers
Tim
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Hi uppitt,
Welcome my Aussie friend.
"Highjacking" our thread - I think not. This forum is EVERYONES so knock yourself out ;)
cj and I have been knocking things around for a while now ( cj must be a member of EVERY Suzuki thread that exists :o - He keeps popping up everywhere ;D ).
My Zuk is a SWB and cj's is a LWB - I wonder if the exhausts on the LWB are too restrictive ??? - they are fitted with pea shooters stock >:(. What is yours?
Just tweaked my 3" to 5" - still no body lift and heaps of room for the 235/85x16's - looks like I could go 33's with a little guard "massaging" ;)
5.125's - have not done this yet. Will have to think about this one - may keep the 5.125's for my GV when I fit a 2.5" lift and 245/75x16's ;D
Could rob the 5.125's from my X90 though I guess ::) - oh hell I will work it all out later :-\ - to many Suzuki's , so little time ( and cash :P )
Anyway - any further ideas ???
ZeusZuki 8)
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Could rob the 5.125's from my X90 though I guess - oh hell I will work it all out later - to many Suzuki's , so little time ( and cash )
Has your X90 got 5:12s?
Injector sizes
2.0 V6 193cc
2.5 V6 280cc
2.7 V6 240cc
The 2.7 has smaller injectors to make more power? Is the fuel pressure higher or is it just way more efficient?
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Here's a little more detail for comparison but it is not complete.
             Fuel Pressure           Injected Fuel Volume
G16B 1.6 4cyl  35.6 - 42.7 psi           152 - 192cc/min (Kick), 168 - 208cc/min (Vitara)
J18A 1.8 4cyl  38.4 - 44.0 psi
J20A 2.0 4cyl  35.6 - 42.7 psi           220 - 248cc/min
H20A 2.0 V6   38.4 - 44.0 psi           193cc/min
H25A 2.5 V6   38.4 - 44.0 psi           256 - 280cc/min
H27A 2.7 V6   38.4 - 44.0psi           224 - 240cc/min
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Sorry if I've just hijacked your thread a little....but very interested in what you guys have been discussing.
Cheers
Tim
Welcome and feel free to join in. I wouldn't say it's our thread but the 2.0 V6 never made it to the US so there won't be too many discussing this although they got the Sport which is the same as our LWB 2.0 but with a 1.8 version of the 2.0 4cyl we got in the SWB.
I keep meaning to look at my exhaust as I think an upgrade there will help with performance. The GV 2.5 went from 106kW to 116kW when they increased the exhaust size. I think something in the order of 2.25" would probably be about right for us but I haven't sat down to figure it out properly yet. What would be nice is a decent set of headers and a true dual exhaust setup for the V6 but you will be talking $$$. I am going to talk to someone about this in Melbourne in the near future as the headers should also work for the 2.5 and 2.7 motors and if there is enough interest then a reasonable price may be acheived.
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I have changed a small portion of the exhaust......when the front wheels fired a rock straight through my muffler a few years ago I had a less restrictive muffler put on and the 2" pipe from the cat back was replaced with a 2.25'. It made a minor change to performance, mainly when you're up above 4000rpm, otherwise not really noticable apart from the new 'tone' the Vit now makes. The exhaust has since had a hotdog installed which helped quieten it down.
I also had considered changing the whole exhaust over, but the cost turned me off..... I still could be swayed.
Also on the XL7 when they brought out a new year model, can't remember exactly which year it was 2003 ?? they managed to get another 10-15kw out of the engine....not sure what they did.
do you know if the 2.0 and 2.5 have the same sized throttle body ?? any other parts that could be upgraded with our 2.0, maybe a changed MAF ???
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The XL-7 went from 130kW and 231Nm to 135kW and 250Nm. From what I can gather it was basically a programming change. There is someone who was in the NBS4x4 Club in Brisbane who had done a little work to his 2.0 V6 including fitting a Unichip I think. Must see if I can find out more.
I don't know about the throttle body sizes for sure yet but I am going to try and confirm them to see if there is a difference.
Changing to higher flowing cats can make a difference. I did this on my 1.6 and went up one size bigger than my pipe size and gained a bit more again. I think the headers are the real key though. I shudder when I look at the Factory manifold design.
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I know the guy from the NBS club....been a friend for a few years...and driven his 2.0....definitely leaves mine for dead, and he gets great fuel economy. And yes he had the unichip fitted. I do know that the unichip only changes to sensors, the MAF and the timing sensor. nothing else is changed. I know the timing sensor is moved (advanced), so then I'm gather the chip possibly advances it further....Not sure whether it simply reads the MAF or whether it also fiddles with the output of this....
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I know he did a couple of other small mods too. Do you know if this dyno chart is with or without these mods?
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What octane fuel does that require?
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I think 98 RON from memory.
I think the only mods done was a high flow air filter, a Hiclone, and the air intake pipe cut off a little.
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so all this talk about 5W 30, is that a good thing to run in a 2.5 as well? My cams, lifters and valves are really loud and always have been.
also, does running oil other than this take away from the engine life? I've been running 10 W 40 I think.. forgot and too lazy to check. I use castrol syntec and change it about every 6k since people tell me you can run synthetic longer than petrol.
I'll check the weight of oil I use, please give me feedback on what I use
that 3 inch lift 2.0 vitara is pretty sweet. I like the two door hard tops, they aren't seen as much
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so all this talk about 5W 30, is that a good thing to run in a 2.5 as well? My cams, lifters and valves are really loud and always have been.
5W30 is what seems to be working well for all the Mazda K series and Suzuki H series V6's from what I have been able to find out.
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so the 2.5 is the "H series"?
thanks
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Yes,
2.0 H20A
2.5 H25A
2.7 H27A
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Ended up changing the guides and timing chain in my 2.0 V6, sounded even worse for a couple of weeks then settled down to as quite as new. Once you get that ticking guide noise there not much choose really, tried flushing oil etc but didn’t make any difference. I’m starting to feel all V6 motors may need regular belt changes.
Regards Charlie
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Yes,
2.0 H20A
2.5 H25A
2.7 H27A
thanks
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Zeus, I was just out laying under my swb and lwb comparing the standard control arm to both the Calmini arm on the swb and the standard forged arm on the widetrack and the widetrack arm appears to be even wider than the Calmini arm. Did you compare yours when you swapped it?
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cj - What sort of question is that ??? Of course I checked it all out first ;).
Stock 1600 arm - 20" front pivot bolt to ball joint centre - 17.5" rear pivot bolt to ball joint centre. The V6 measures up the same.
Calmini arms - different ( I have sworn to secrecy ;) ). Well not really, just didn't bother to measure them ::)
I have now installed Calmini GV front springs ( Thank you David ;D ), and the front is sitting really nice. The thing now has 5" of lift - suspension only :o. Just dialling in the camber now but everything else is working good.
I really am growing fond of this truck :-* - wish I had tweaked one years ago :-\ - got the 413 / Sammy is way better mentality ( BIG mistake :'( ). CALMINI rocks ;D - regardless of what people think, I am really impressed with the lift and the flex, quite outstanding compared to stock. My mate is about to get me to fit a kit to his 2.0 LWB V6 Vit ;D. Yeah baby yeah 8) And the auto.................................................................... :-* :-* :-*
Zeuszuki
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how much lift did you get from the GV springs alone ? I have some XL7 fronts which look identical to the GVs (well that I could see), just haven't had a chance to put them in.
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wait a minute, I'm hearing that a stock arm on something is linger than a calmini replacement. are you guys talking about first or second gen track/kick/vitaras/escudos?
thanks, it would be something if a stock arm was longer than the calmini, I would be shocked, but it would work out well for me since I have the stock arms
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What we are talking about relates to the Sport model which we got in other markets with a 2.0 V6. I haven't measured it up. I was just underneath with a standard Kick arm in my hands comparing it to the Sport arm on my lwb and the Calmini arm on my swb and at first glance it looked like it was longer but apparently ZeusZuki has measured it at the same dimension as the Sport arm so it is not any longer :( I have not compared a Kick arm to a later GV type.
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I think 98 RON from memory.
I think the only mods done was a high flow air filter, a Hiclone, and the air intake pipe cut off a little.
I have been in touch with Dick and he is running Premium (98 I think). He has another dyno chart he is scanning for me too. Also said he is getting a full exhaust next week including headers. He has also gone back to paper filters for better filtration.
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What we are talking about relates to the Sport model which we got in other markets with a 2.0 V6. I haven't measured it up. I was just underneath with a standard Kick arm in my hands comparing it to the Sport arm on my lwb and the Calmini arm on my swb and at first glance it looked like it was longer but apparently ZeusZuki has measured it at the same dimension as the Sport arm so it is not any longer :( I have not compared a Kick arm to a later GV type.
that's a pitty. I do know that a 2nd gen arm is cast or something and the first gen isn't. it's kind of liek pressed steel or something on a 1st gen. don't know the advantages either has to offer but I do think they must mount different or something seeing as how calmini only makes a 2.5 inch lift for a 2nd gen but a 2 and 3 for a 1st gen.. it's wierd... maybe the 2nd gen one is supposed to be stronger, I have noticed the front of the frame on my 2nd gen being straight and taller than a 1st gen which is skinny and curves down in that spot.. I don't know... seems like they did a few good improvements on the 2nd gen except I am baffled as to why they got rid of the nice 3 link that was on the 1st gen and put a 5 link on... the 3 they had was great and no panhard bar compications and the axle stays centered instead of likeing one side more than the other like my 5 link does.. oh well
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Hi uppitt,
Here in NZ we are getting between 4 and 5" of lift out of the box from the Calmini 3" lift kits. My 2.0 V6 got 5" with the standard kit but using GV springs  ;)
Went out for a play with the club today - flex still really good and ride is spot on. The Gv springs held the front up nicely ( the Calmini 1600 springs are a little too soft for the weight of the V6 engine ). Sits nice and level and drives as good as stock - so I guess you can have your cake and eat it too ;D
Recent pic attached 8)
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The pic ::)
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wait, so you ordered the 3 inch kit, got ahold of 2.5 lift GV coils for the front since you have a V6 and it lifted it 4 or 5 inches instead? this is madness.. I saw a kick here in bend oregon this week that probably would tower over my dad's stock 99 dodge dakota, it was a wicked kick
yours looks quite assertive like that, very nice
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Madness maybe :P - Those are 235/85 x 16 tyres under there and zero body lift ;D ( 360mm / 14.25"under the chassis cross member :) )
Wait until I attack my 2.5 GV complete with body lift and enhanced calmini 2.5" kit - I have already fitted a 2.5" GV kit over here ( for a club member ) and I got 4" of lift no problem ;) - Immmmm 4" + 2 or 3" body lift - that equals 6 to 7" , wonder what size rubber I could get under it ??? ;)
Oh yeah - I am currently developing the 2.0 V6 kit for Calmini and that is why I get what I need - coming together really well with off the shelf parts :) Looks like Calmini just needs to build some new drop brackets and viola they will have a 2.0 V6 kit to offer - gotta be good 8)
ZeusZuki
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so are you all adding spacers or soemthing to the calmini kits to get all that lift out of them? I am baffled and jealous at the same time
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Hmmm....question time Zeus.
What rim size and offset are you running? Have you done any trimming and/or hammering? How are the CV angles now? What about the strut length? Are you running the Calmini GV springs in the rear and if you are, how are the shocks for open and closed length? Actually what are your open and closed lengths as I heard that maybe Calmini changed them. Got a side on pic? Are the Calmini GV springs the same wire dia.? Did you compare the free length of the Calmini GV springs with the Calmini Kick springs?
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Any answers Zeus? also have you fitted the kit to your mates lwb yet?
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Here is a later chart after the diffs were changed to 5.125 and the Hiclones were fitted.
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Also in a few weeks hopefully I will have a snorkel fitted. I was going to use a 1.6 snorkel and airbox with some custom work required but now I have a Manufacturer who is prepared to make one for this model. It should fit all the 2.0 V6 lwb, 2.0 4cyl swb and 1.8 Sport lwb. I will keep you posted on progress.
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Hi cj,
Been away and the weather has been shit :-\
I will try and get your shopping list of requests together tommorrow if all goes to plan.
Front springs - GV. Rears - 1600 kick. All the arms, trailing arms etc are standard Calmini kit stuff.
Points of interest - the Widebody Vits have longer CV half shafts. The "A" arm and front diff' mounts are totally different than the 1600 set up - in fact the whole chassis is different. This means that the kit ends up giving slightly different results than it would if bolted to the 1600 chassis. The "fangs" that the arms bolt to are a lot shallower than the 1600's.
Rear shocks are Calmini and they worked very well. I did however change them for some rear Holden rodeo units and got even more flex.
GV springs are same wire diameter but not wound as tight as the 1600 ones. Free length is the same as the 1600 springs so it is coming together better than I could have wished for.
Rims are 16 x 7 - I will have to check on back spacing for you.
Trimming - I had to trim HEAPS off EVERYTHING - just kidding. I only had to trim about a 20mm arc out of the front bumper for clearance. I did have to adjust the steering stops though to stop the tyres rubbing on the chassis, but that is fine because it will help the CV's last longer. The CV's get BIG angles on full lock standard ( too much in my opinion ).
More to come tommorrow.
Oh yeah - I think a '97 Toyota Hilux snorkle will fit.
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Some pic's
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You should try the weather in Melbourne, it's all over the place ::)
What do you mean by the kit giving different results? Also, how do you find it different between the two sets of springs? How many turns on the GV coils?
Any particular Rodeo shocks?
I always end up adjusting my steering stops.
I was also considering trying some different snorkels to see if they would fit but now that I have someone prepared to make them for this model it will make it pretty easy. Just need to do about 3 trips over a period of a couple of weeks for the mould to be taken of the guard and for them to work it all out then make the prototype and then fit it.
You had the 235/85's on with the standard kit didn't you. How was the clearance then?
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looks like you definately did the job right.. looks good
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Hi cj,
GV springs = 9 coils top to bottom.
1600 springs = 12 coils top to bottom
Lift giving different results - if this kit was bolted on to a 1600 the results would be way different. Crawl under your rigs and check out the mounts on each one. Notice how they mount in different locations relative to the chassis ( the 1600's hang down further than the Widebody ).
2006 Holden Rodeo - a mate of mine ( the guy with the LWB ) works for Fully Equiped and scores them off of the "upgraded" trucks for free - they fit heavy duty stuff and ditch the stock dampers ( good for us ). 290mm of travel stock from the Rodeo dampers.
The 235/85's were fitted from the time I fitted the kit. I trimmed the front bumper as soon as the kit was fitted ( had to ). The 1600 springs were just too soft - but they did flex real easy ( too easy ). The GV springs support the vehicle perfectly and still flex as good.
The CV angles worked out very well with my "custom" drop brackets too.
Thanks Maroon Monsoon - glad you like it. It drives even better than it looks. The auto and the extra power make this thing walk through stuff without fuss. I am actually surprised at how well this rig performs - Realistically, if you look at it, it does not exactly look extreme. Pretty damn tame actually - but this thing performs quite outstandingly and I have not even locked it yet ( modified Sammy carrier sitting on bench waiting for install in front, rear locker installed in spare rear diff - 5.13:1 going in. Stock is 4.8's ).
Well that will do for now. Enjoy.
ZeusZuki.
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Lift giving different results - if this kit was bolted on to a 1600 the results would be way different. Crawl under your rigs and check out the mounts on each one. Notice how they mount in different locations relative to the chassis ( the 1600's hang down further than the Widebody )........
.......Realistically, if you look at it, it does not exactly look extreme. Pretty damn tame actually
I will when the weather gets better ::)
I thought the same about my swb with just the 3" suspension and the 7.50x16's. Doesn't make it look overdone and doesn't attract unwanted attention. I'm going for the same thing with the lwb.
What do you think about the valving of the Rodeo shocks? OK?
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Hi cj,
GV springs = 9 coils top to bottom.
1600 springs = 12 coils top to bottom
Lift giving different results - if this kit was bolted on to a 1600 the results would be way different. Crawl under your rigs and check out the mounts on each one. Notice how they mount in different locations relative to the chassis ( the 1600's hang down further than the Widebody ).
2006 Holden Rodeo - a mate of mine ( the guy with the LWB ) works for Fully Equiped and scores them off of the "upgraded" trucks for free - they fit heavy duty stuff and ditch the stock dampers ( good for us ). 290mm of travel stock from the Rodeo dampers.
The 235/85's were fitted from the time I fitted the kit. I trimmed the front bumper as soon as the kit was fitted ( had to ). The 1600 springs were just too soft - but they did flex real easy ( too easy ). The GV springs support the vehicle perfectly and still flex as good.
The CV angles worked out very well with my "custom" drop brackets too.
Thanks Maroon Monsoon - glad you like it. It drives even better than it looks. The auto and the extra power make this thing walk through stuff without fuss. I am actually surprised at how well this rig performs - Realistically, if you look at it, it does not exactly look extreme. Pretty damn tame actually - but this thing performs quite outstandingly and I have not even locked it yet ( modified Sammy carrier sitting on bench waiting for install in front, rear locker installed in spare rear diff - 5.13:1 going in. Stock is 4.8's ).
Well that will do for now. Enjoy.
no prob, what did you do for your custom drop brackets? I thought the calmini kit came with them. the CV angles look like they are set really well by the way. looks pretty high for a 3 inch lift but I remember you saying you got more lift out of it or something.. if so how did you do that? did it just happen to work that way or did you add spacers or something? It looks like the GV lift springs are working great for you and that's awesome that it drives great too. How's the cornering compared to stock?
ZeusZuki.
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hello, I was wondering if you could give me the dimensions on the diff. drop brackets you made? Material, thickness, how did oyu cut it out
I have a 94 sidekick 8valve - don't know if the ones you made will work for mine>
I have 2.5 in. coil spacer lift; as you would guess my cv angles are disgusting! :'(
Iv'e wheeled how it is for about 3 months and nothing has broke YET!
I just skimmed through your thread- sorry for the off topic
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hello, I was wondering if you could give me the dimensions on the diff. drop brackets you made? Material, thickness, how did oyu cut it out
I have a 94 sidekick 8valve - don't know if the ones you made will work for mine>
I have 2.5 in. coil spacer lift; as you would guess my cv angles are disgusting! :'(
Iv'e wheeled how it is for about 3 months and nothing has broke YET!
I just skimmed through your thread- sorry for the off topic
holy crap, good nothing broke yet. that's probably about 3 inches of lift up front if you have 2.5 inch coil spacers up there. good to know they can take that kind of angle although it's probably best they don't
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Yeah I have wheeled the poop out it and nothings broke yet. But I have stock gearing and open frint and rear. I'm surprised myself actually.
I was also wondering / do you think?....
that 1 its harder to turn the front wheels with that kind of cv angle?
Is it harder to engage the front?
what on the freeway one of though cvs decide to give? Byebye rig and driver?
I would like to lower the diff obviously
But I still need the diff drop brackets dimensions so I can fab up some or have somebody do it
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do you have manual hubs? looks like it since your boots aren't all shiny from rubbing themselves up like mine do because of my drive flanges. with manual hubs unlocked you probably don't really have to worry but I'm not 100% sure, it's when they are locked that you have to worry.
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Nope I got automatic hubs. So far they have worked great, no rubbing either
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well, since they disengage unlike my stupid drive flanges you are probably disengaged quite often so it's probably saving your CV's.. but the wheeling they have withstood just makes them seem like tough little bastards.
boondox makes a lift kit for kicks that has axle drop brackets. If you contact them you may be able to get just the axle drop brackets and take care of those CV angles
I think the site is: www.boondoxmotorsports.com
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Thanks, I sent them an e-mail and they said within a couple weeks they will have them for-sale on their site in a couple of weeks. There is a site in Japan I belive that sells track/kick parts; but they want 130 $ with shipping just for the 2 drop brackets!!!!!!!! I went whelling the other night and my c.v.s. are still fine. ??? Weird. I am probally pushing my luck though.
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Hi magicat,
Finally getting back to you. The brackets I fitted are modified Calmini drop brackets. You can make your own if you wish. Just unbolt the two front brackets at the diff end and let the diff "hang" ( you may need to pull it down a bit ). Get your CV angles to a point you are happy with. Then get some cardboard and make some templates that match the whole lot up. Get some 6mm steel plate and cut and drill to your template. Then bolt it all together. You can use the original drop brackets and adapt it all to bolt up.
Just use your imagination. I made my own this way years ago - way before Calmini days. I think my home made ones dropped the front diff about 1 3/4" - 2".
I suggest you do this sooner than later. Those CV angles are not good at all.
Good luck.
ZeusZuki.
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Thanks, I think I will try that. It doesn't seem that bad; I guess!
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that really makes me want to make my own diff drop brackets when I lift my zuk someday. It's going to be a while because of collgege but someday I'll ift it.
It might be a stretch but I was thinking about making my own control arms that are even more of an upgrade than calmini.. longer, shaped different, I don'tknow, I'd have to figure out what works best. Maybe someday even make it dual control arm.. that wouldn't be for a long long while though
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Yeah, I really don't know where to go next with the kick. I don't have the fab skills to do all the trick stuff. I just tool a 60 mile trip on the freeway and I hated how it drove. It's scary in the hihgway. I stayed at 55 the whole time. It seems to almost have bump steer or something? It always drifts and wanders. I was thinking of flipping the tie-rods; but heard this is not good for on-road driving. Why? The tie-rods would be almost parallel instead of being slanted; right? I'm definitely not a mechanic or suspension expert.
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on really rutted roads my GV grabs everything and just goes everywhere, it's really hard to drive on rutted roads and it's stock, I think it's just a track/kick/escudo/vitara thing. Unless you were doing that on a smooth road, I can freaking haul on a smooth road and it's tracks great, it's the ruts that get scary. I know it's alighned because if I let go of the wheel on a smooth road it goes stright so.. guess ruts are just complete crap for use 1st and 2nd gen kick owners
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This is jus tyour normal interstate. Pretty flat!
Overall it feels very unstabe at speeds above 40 - 50 mph? Maby I need to drive a sammy with a spoa to get a real comparasion. ;D
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Maroon - I agree, the GV's are S :-XT compared to the earlier Vits. I suspect it all comes down to a mismatch between the arc the "A" arms follow and the arc the "drag links" follow causing the wheels to toe in and out as the suspension cycles :-\. Oh well - I do enjoy the 2.5 V6 power though ;D. Probably helps being a manual too.
Magiccat - Check your steering geometry. Especially your toe setting. I set this at about 2-4mm toe in if you are running around 31 inch tyres. This is about all you can adjust easily - the rest requires some fiddling around with mounts etc ( a PITA if you do not know what you are doing - in fact if you do not understand how everything interelates then start reading BEFORE you adjust anything ;) ). My experience is a properly lifted Kick / Vit drives as good as stock if not better.
My old Kick / Vit that was built about five or six years ago - sat on 33 inch Wranglers.
ZeusZuki.
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your old kick is awesome. The only thing I like less about a 2nd gen vit compared to a 1st gen other than some of the styling is the 5 link on a 2nd gen is reatarted since they already had a nice 3 link that rode just as nice and didn't have the panhard bar complications.. makes no sense to me but I do really like my 2.5, it gets up and goes for what it is. I've kept up with a lead footed ram 2500 cummins driver that had stacks.. th ink he could have wasted me if he would have given it everything but I was still very proud because he was on it pretty good.
don't the 1st gen vits have the exact same suspension up front with a different control arm? I would think they'd ride about the same. Maybe when I lift it someday it will drive nicer, everyone seems to say they ride much better lifted