ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: rkteckt on February 27, 2006, 08:34:26 PM
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Im gearing up for my first long distance trip towing Trogdor behind my avalanche and would appreciate any advice that experienced flat towers can offer.
i'm ordering a custom hitch because i need an 11" lift to get from the hitch reciever on the avalanche to the tow bar coupler on the samurai. And i need 24" clear between vehicles to open the tailgate without disconnecting the hitch.
I cant imagine that a samurai would strain a 2" steel tube over a 24" legnth since most of the force is parallel to the shaft, but criticism would be appreciated.
I've never flat towed anything before and im picturing my sammy bouncing from right to left tires and then flippng over suddenly...... :-)
Is it safe to load up the sammy with camping gear as long as i stay away from the shifters and the steering wheel?
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/815000-815999/815975_22_full.jpg)
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post a pic of your tow bar, I just disconnect the rear drive shaft,unlock the front hubs, turn the key untill the steering wheel unlocks and go for it. ok hook up towbar safty chains x2 and plug the lights in, I just towed a tracker 250 miles no problem.
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I've flat towed my Sami thousands of miles with no problems. If you really want to avoid issues, some people remove the rear drive shaft to avoid the risk of it separating. Judging from experiences on several BBs, this doesn't seem to be an issue if your drive shaft is the correct length for your lift, has enough slip yoke length for your suspension travel, and is well maintained. (I'm lifted 2.5" with stock shafts and don't bother pulling the dshaft.) You might consider pinning missing links if you've got them to minimize droop.
The 2" shaft is akin to most receiver hitches on the other end. A pic would tell a lot here.
I often load the sami under tow with a few hundred pounds of firewood, etc and it's fine. I usually load it either behind the front seats or on the passenger side floor to avoid shifter conflict. Note that the owners manual suggests TCase in neutral, Trans in 2nd while towing. Stop every 200 miles to idle the engine thus lubing the tcase.
A trick I learned is to turn the key on then turn it all the way off. If you don't remove it, the column remains unlocked.
Cheers,
D
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(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/815000-815999/815975_26_full.jpg)
heres the hitch idea
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Do a search for flat and tow at Ack's FAQ. The link is in my signature.
Although there is a lot of information on the Tracker (auto locking hubs, Automatic Transmission, etc.) The basic material also applies to a Samurai.
I generally drop the rear driveshaft and unlock the front hubs when flat towing. That way everything is disconnected (more or less in the front...) from the tcase/transmission.
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I would put some perty thick paint on the new part and drive it around the block a few times and look for any stress marks on the paint, they make hitches for setups like that for trucks with campers but it has another 2" reciever below the stock one and a bar coming out of it and welding to your 24" piece, but like you said there is no tounge weight, so try it out close to home first, then go for it.
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New member here.
I don't believe the hitch extension you have drawn will be very successful. The long distance back and the offset will create a lot of movement at the ball. The only way I can see it being safe would be if you could get it fitted to the reciever so there is NO slop in the connection. If there is slop the towed vehicle will wander and be a PITA to tow.
I built the tow bar and attaching brackets for my '87 Sammi. I used 1 1/4" square steel tubing with 1/8" wall. I am 38" from the ball to the connection on the Sammi front shackles. I made replacement front spring shackles out of 1/4" plate shaped in kind of a triangle shape with 5/8" holes in a third hole in the new shackle plates. If you look at the shackles in your picture and visualize that center hole being about 2" forward that is where the bar is connected. That will eliminate the need for so much rise in your hitch.
I tow with the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in second gear as recommended by Suzuki. No shaft removal.
Jim
Bellingham, WA
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"I tow with the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in second gear as recommended by Suzuki. No shaft removal. "
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That is fine if your stock and not lifted, the front drive shaft turns on a sammie when the t case is in nutral, mine has a nasty vibration and tends to loosen all of the drive line bolts, who knows what other damage it does inside the t case.
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So lemme see if i have this correct.....
Its probably ok to tow a lifted samurai by following the manufacturers suggested tranny in 2nd and tc in neutral.....Idle the engine for five minutes or so every 200 miles.....
If im mechanically inclined and paranoid i should disconnect the drive shafts for the tow....
I should take it for a test run to see if i can hear any vibration from the front drive shaft.....
And finally i should redesign my hitch for less lateral play in the receiver?
Actually i could probably get away with a much shorter hitch arm if i padded the top of the coupler while opening the tailgate.....Avalanches have this plastic tailgate panel that will probably shatter if it hits the coupler.....but still, opening the tail gate is a conveniance issue on the road, could just be less conveniant.
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PULL YOUR REAR DRIVE LINE. you would probably not make it fifty miles befor you destroyed something with the lift that you have.
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I LIVE RIGHT BY U I HAVE ATOW BAR IF U WANT TO BORROW IT
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Thanks for the Towbar offer, my front bar has one that bolts right one.
SO what kind of damage are we talking about to the rear drive shaft if it is not disconnected?
I guess i can go get a quick lesson on how to remove it and re-install it, just seems wierd that a part of the car thats supposed to turn while its moving would be in danger of damage when the power is coming from the wheel end instead of the TC end.
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You don't have to drop the front driveshaft as long as your front hubs are unlocked. To be safe, disconnect the rear driveshaft. No big deal, only four bolts. Just remember to make sure that the u-joints are in phase when you reconnect it.
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FOur bolts.....Meaning just disconnect one end? I assume the end closest to the differential?
And what do you mean by u-joints in phase?
Im a real novice at car repair. I think i may have my mechanic give me a class on dropping the drive shaft. Maybe have him put some new bolts on it while he is at it so im sure i can get them loose.
When i re-connect it do the bolts have to be torqued on? or can i just tighten them up pretty tight?
Thanks, you guys are saving me from buying a 1200 buck trailer by the way.
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When you put a sammie tranfer case in nutral it locks the front and rear drive line together, so when you tow it down the road with a lifted samurai the front drive line is trying to come off of the t case which in turn telegraphs all of the vibrations right on through the t case and will eventually loosen all the bolts in your drive line and your drive shafts will fall off on the road doing sixty that will probably take out your brake lines and a few other things in the immediat area.
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When you put a sammie tranfer case in nutral it locks the front and rear drive line together, so when you tow it down the road with a lifted samurai the front drive line is trying to come off of the t case which in turn telegraphs all of the vibrations right on through the t case and will eventually loosen all the bolts in your drive line and your drive shafts will fall off on the road doing sixty that will probably take out your brake lines and a few other things in the immediat area.
Well, We dont want that to happen now do we.......Guess its time to go to remove drive shaft school.
I was laying in the street a little while ago looking at it.... should i go ahead and take the driveshaft out compeltely? it doesnt seem safe to disconnect the rear and tie it to something.....
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I have to laugh every time I see this.....Two pages just to tow a Sammi.
With thousands of towing miles behind me (literaly!) I can tell you there is no need to pull the shaft, make sure the front hubs are unlocked, transfer case in 2WD, tranny in neutral, SW.unlocked.
If you are VERY worried, stop after 5 miles and check the temp of things.....every thing should be cool to warm.
Any standard tow bar will work, just have mounts made to fit your bumber and get a step up hich for your tow vehicle. A tow bar doesn't have to be 0deg. but wouldn't go much more than 20deg.
And, if you are super paranoid go to u-haul and rent a dolly...cheap, almost fool proof, and the guys there will check for proper hitch.
Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps.
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I assume the end closest to the differential?
Yea.
And what do you mean by u-joints in phase?
If your u-joints are out of phase, your Zuk will shake like a fat girl at a barn dance. Just line up the dots.
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,16725.15.html
http://www.ackerdackerly.com/driveshaft.wmv
When i re-connect it do the bolts have to be torqued on? or can i just tighten them up pretty tight?
Pretty tight always works for me...
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I have to laugh every time I see this.....transfer case in 2WD, tranny in neutral
I have to laugh too... This is WRONG. The FSM specifies Transfer Case in NEUTRAL, Tranny in SECOND gear. There are good reasons for this.
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I don't give advice from what I've read or heard from someone else I ONLY post when I know what I am saying works. Like I have said, I tow my Zuk everywhere and have had NO problems with my method..
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All right,
I found a commercially available hitch that gave me enough lift to keep my tow bar flat......
I have magnetic brake lights for the rear of the Toad Trogdor.....
I got a lesson on removing the rear drive shaft......
and finally im replacing my bias ply mudders with some more road worthy mud/street tires.....
I took it around the block a couple times today and nothing exploded.... so
Can anyone think of any other handy tips for towing a lifted samurai?
And my final question regards the idling the engine at every 200 miles.....If i am disconnecting the rear drive shaft do i even need to do this? I mean it isnt as if the TC or transmission will even be in motion to need lubricating.....or am i missing something?
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I found a commercially available hitch that gave me enough lift to keep my tow bar flat......
I have magnetic brake lights for the rear of the Toad Trogdor.....
I used little bungees to help keep my lights on the rear of my sami when I used to flat-tow it. I lost a light one time on a trip home and it was just flappin in the wind...lol Also, check everything and make sure your trun signals are correct. It's easy to put those magnetic lights on wrong.
I got a lesson on removing the rear drive shaft......
If it were me, I'd just drop the rear shaft and be done with it. You'll have a lot less to worry about, and won't have to stop every 200 miles to start your rig and let it run so everything is oiled. Only thing you'll have turning will be the diffs. Plus if you have supplies in the rig, and they should happen to hit any of the shift levers while driving, you won't have to worry about anything.
and finally im replacing my bias ply mudders with some more road worthy mud/street tires.....
I took it around the block a couple times today and nothing exploded.... so
Can anyone think of any other handy tips for towing a lifted samurai?
I always left the steering unlocked, but put a bunge on the steering wheel with just enough tension that the wheel would center it's self back up after I turned a corner. I have swampers on my sami and my front wheels had a bad habbit of NOT tracking correctly
And my final question regards the idling the engine at every 200 miles.....If i am disconnecting the rear drive shaft do i even need to do this? I mean it isnt as if the TC or transmission will even be in motion to need lubricating.....or am i missing something?
If you drop the rear D-shaft, you won't have to do this.
I towed for 4 years like this and only had problems once, and it was minor stuff.
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([url]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/815000-815999/815975_26_full.jpg[/url])
heres the hitch idea
If I am viewing this correctly, you are extending the stinger 2' behind the reciever. Do you still have a typical tow bar behind that or is your pivot point within 12" of the front of the Samurai?
You will have better towing charactereistics if you keep the pivot point as close to the center of the rear axle (towing vehicle) as possible. The farther back you go, the more exagerated the "wag" of the pivot point moving the oposite direction of the turn prior to moving in the same direction of the turn.
In this case, if you turn left, the extended stinger will swing to the right, causing the Samurai to move right, then left. The more exagerated, the greater the forces that try to 1) break things, and 2) push the rear of your tow rig to the side.
This is why commercial trucks have the 5th wheels over the rear axles.
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heres the hitch idea
If I am viewing this correctly, you are extending the stinger 2' behind the reciever. Do you still have a typical tow bar behind that or is your pivot point within 12" of the front of the Samurai?
You will have better towing charactereistics if you keep the pivot point as close to the center of the rear axle (towing vehicle) as possible. The farther back you go, the more exagerated the "wag" of the pivot point moving the oposite direction of the turn prior to moving in the same direction of the turn.
In this case, if you turn left, the extended stinger will swing to the right, causing the Samurai to move right, then left. The more exagerated, the greater the forces that try to 1) break things, and 2) push the rear of your tow rig to the side.
This is why commercial trucks have the 5th wheels over the rear axles.
Actually i found an 8 inch lift hitch that brought the ball up high enough that my tow bar is almost flat, so i dont have to bother with the custom hitch.
I found a commercially available hitch that gave me enough lift to keep my tow bar flat......
I have magnetic brake lights for the rear of the Toad Trogdor.....
I used little bungees to help keep my lights on the rear of my sami when I used to flat-tow it. I lost a light one time on a trip home and it was just flappin in the wind...lol Also, check everything and make sure your trun signals are correct. It's easy to put those magnetic lights on wrong.
I got a lesson on removing the rear drive shaft......
If it were me, I'd just drop the rear shaft and be done with it. You'll have a lot less to worry about, and won't have to stop every 200 miles to start your rig and let it run so everything is oiled. Only thing you'll have turning will be the diffs. Plus if you have supplies in the rig, and they should happen to hit any of the shift levers while driving, you won't have to worry about anything.
and finally im replacing my bias ply mudders with some more road worthy mud/street tires.....
I took it around the block a couple times today and nothing exploded.... so
Can anyone think of any other handy tips for towing a lifted samurai?
I always left the steering unlocked, but put a bunge on the steering wheel with just enough tension that the wheel would center it's self back up after I turned a corner. I have swampers on my sami and my front wheels had a bad habbit of NOT tracking correctly
And my final question regards the idling the engine at every 200 miles.....If i am disconnecting the rear drive shaft do i even need to do this? I mean it isnt as if the TC or transmission will even be in motion to need lubricating.....or am i missing something?
If you drop the rear D-shaft, you won't have to do this.
I towed for 4 years like this and only had problems once, and it was minor stuff.
Thanks for the answers, it definently sounds like pulling the driveshaft out is the way to go.
On a side note during my second test tow i noticed that my RRO towbar that is part of my RRO bumper is about 1/4" off center......Just lovely..... :-)
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Thanks for the answers, it definently sounds like pulling the driveshaft out is the way to go.
/quote]
tack weld the driveshaft bolts to the flange, that speeds up the removal/installation, you just need one hand and one wrench
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I crawled under trogdor today to take a look at the driveshaft and see if i could get it out. After some wd-40 and elbow grease i was only able to loose one bolt from the TC end. The others started to round off a little with my adjustable wrench.
I guess i need to go buy some 14mm wrenches that will fit up close to the flange and not slip.....
So heres a question for you, when i get the bottom accessible bolts out, how can i rotate the shaft to get the other bolts down under where they are easy to get to...... is there a trick to it other than rolling the sami forward a foot? ( i was trying to do this without jack stands and all that because i have to replace and remove it while on a campsite at the other end fo the tow....and i dont want to pack along a bunch of stuff just to make the switch.
Also, I was reading a thread ages ago about leaving the rear out and driving in 4whigh with the front hubs locked..... Seems like it should work, but is there a down side?
Thanks.