ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: hobgoblin on March 27, 2006, 11:13:09 AM
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Hello,
Have a DT Header on the way...This is what I'd like to do...
Header to 2.5" Highflow cat,2.5" to Flowmaster two chamber Muffler that has two 2.25" outlets,then 2 tail pipes,one on each side. Is this to much flow???I know it needs back pressure but the cat should hold it back some.....It's a 8valve 1.6 I need opions before I order cat and muffler.
Thanks Tom K.
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Ever heard a fart in a wind tunnel ;D Kidding
I don't think you'll have much back pressure if any ( even with cat ), I have 2" (O.D.)all the way with no cat and a turbo muffler and you don't feel alot of tailpipe exhaust ( hand on end of pipe) that's with a fresh engine in it.
Maybe go 2.25 to the muffler and 1.5 dual out of the muffler?????
My .02
Steve. :)
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Ive been told anything over 2.25 - 2.5 is to much and will result in loss of power..
I have a calmini header and I am running 2.5 and its pretty perky.
I have also hear d putting a flowmaster on a tracker/kick will be very loud....and thus not highly recomended (this is what the muffler shop told me)
(Ive also heard it will make your car sound like a boat unless you have a v8)
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One of the technicians at work told me that the less backpressure you have the better. I found this hard to believe, as backpressure makes bottom end better, but I found that while I was running my trackick with the cat but no muffler, it works better all around (bottom end and top end)
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One of the technicians at work told me that the less backpressure you have the better. I found this hard to believe, as backpressure makes bottom end better, but I found that while I was running my trackick with the cat but no muffler, it works better all around (bottom end and top end)
Hmmm thats interesting, seems to defy what one would think, maybe I should try something like this out and see what the results are
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Ive wrote many articles on this discussion.
Backpressure at the valve, on the head, at the exhaust port.... is bad.. always, from a power perspective. Its true you can burn a valve with too little BP, but then you have a wimpy engine. :) But... I've never burnt a valve, even with 2" straight pipe on my 3 Cyl 1.0L sprint at 7500 RPM... which I drove for 60,000 kms.
However, too little backpressure in your exhaust can create more backpressure on the head at the exhaust valve, specifically at lower RPM.
Without delving into a 3 page discussion.... when you have too little backpressure in your exhaust system, the exhaust pulse (which is followed by a vacuum pulse) rushes out of the exhaust leaving a vacuum behind it, and fresh air rushes INTO your exhaust to fill the vacuum, and collides with the next exhaust pulse, creating backpressure at the head.
This goes away at higher RPM for a HP gain, the best exhaust is horn shaped like on a motorcycle. Narrow at the begining and slowly widening, this gives you the most area under the TQ curve, or in other words, the most overall HP in your powerband.
For me, this was the best setup, and still is I cant believe how well it works:
http://x90.zukiweb.com/bbs/index.php?topic=644.0
The sound is awesome at 5000 RPM but so quiet below that, and yet great overall TQ. (I think the reason is the dual setup, one pipe is about a half wave length longer then the other pipe, so at lower RPM's the noise cancels out)
-Steve
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I have also hear d putting a flowmaster on a tracker/kick will be very loud....and thus not highly recomended (this is what the muffler shop told me)
(Ive also heard it will make your car sound like a boat unless you have a v8)
]
I have the doug thorley header, 2.5" to the muffler a 3" big block 2 chamber flowmaster, then 2.25" the rest of the way out. Mine actually sounds pretty good, which surprised me when I put it on, but I really like it now. Its not that loud and not that annoying fart can buzzing sound. Granted it is not quiet, you can hear it...but doesn't sound all that rice-burner-ish.
Don't laugh the muffler was given to me :D
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You don't want backpressure, that's what you're trying to get rid off but what you do want to do is to keep the exhaust velocity up for good scavenging. The problem is people fit too large an exhaust in an effort to remove backpressure and then say that they lost power because the engine needs some backpressure to run right. What they really did was to open it up so much that the velocity of the exiting gases fell and the scavenging effect with the pulses was lost. In effect what you are looking for is the smallest pipe with the least backpressure for the job. You can even reduce the pipe dia. at the rear of the system a little as the heat is going out of the gases at that stage and they are starting to slow down.
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Just to clarify for some what scavenging is, it is in effect creating a vacuum to help draw out the exhaust gases and at the same time also helps to draw in a fresh charge. Backpressure is the enemy of this.
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Ive wrote many articles on this discussion.
Backpressure at the valve, on the head, at the exhaust port.... is bad.. always, from a power perspective. Its true you can burn a valve with too little BP, but then you have a wimpy engine. :) But... I've never burnt a valve, even with 2" straight pipe on my 3 Cyl 1.0L sprint at 7500 RPM... which I drove for 60,000 kms.
However, too little backpressure in your exhaust can create more backpressure on the head at the exhaust valve, specifically at lower RPM.
Without delving into a 3 page discussion.... when you have too little backpressure in your exhaust system, the exhaust pulse (which is followed by a vacuum pulse) rushes out of the exhaust leaving a vacuum behind it, and fresh air rushes INTO your exhaust to fill the vacuum, and collides with the next exhaust pulse, creating backpressure at the head.
This goes away at higher RPM for a HP gain, the best exhaust is horn shaped like on a motorcycle. Narrow at the begining and slowly widening, this gives you the most area under the TQ curve, or in other words, the most overall HP in your powerband.
For me, this was the best setup, and still is I cant believe how well it works:
[url]http://x90.zukiweb.com/bbs/index.php?topic=644.0[/url]
The sound is awesome at 5000 RPM but so quiet below that, and yet great overall TQ. (I think the reason is the dual setup, one pipe is about a half wave length longer then the other pipe, so at lower RPM's the noise cancels out)
-Steve
You don't want backpressure, that's what you're trying to get rid off but what you do want to do is to keep the exhaust velocity up for good scavenging. The problem is people fit too large an exhaust in an effort to remove backpressure and then say that they lost power because the engine needs some backpressure to run right. What they really did was to open it up so much that the velocity of the exiting gases fell and the scavenging effect with the pulses was lost. In effect what you are looking for is the smallest pipe with the least backpressure for the job. You can even reduce the pipe dia. at the rear of the system a little as the heat is going out of the gases at that stage and they are starting to slow down.
Just to clarify for some what scavenging is, it is in effect creating a vacuum to help draw out the exhaust gases and at the same time also helps to draw in a fresh charge. Backpressure is the enemy of this.
Great Great Information,
Now I understand something with some great background information
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I have the doug thorley header, 2.5" to the muffler a 3" big block 2 chamber flowmaster, then 2.25" the rest of the way out. Mine actually sounds pretty good, which surprised me when I put it on, but I really like it now. Its not that loud and not that annoying fart can buzzing sound. Granted it is not quiet, you can hear it...but doesn't sound all that rice-burner-ish.
Don't laugh the muffler was given to me :D
I stand corrected ::)
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Ok,
You guys talked me into it.... ;).I had a flowmaster on a V6 Dodge Pick-up and it sounded like a Nascar!!!...Kinda looked like one to....LOL.But the DT Header is the Split one that has the two into one pipe into one large one...You Know......Tri Y.... So it should work ok...If not I just drop the pipe from the converter to the muffler to 2.25. Heck the way I drive it might be smashed shut in a few weeks...LOL.
Later Tom K.
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I have the doug thorley header, 2.5" to the muffler a 3" big block 2 chamber flowmaster, then 2.25" the rest of the way out. Mine actually sounds pretty good, which surprised me when I put it on, but I really like it now. Its not that loud and not that annoying fart can buzzing sound. Granted it is not quiet, you can hear it...but doesn't sound all that rice-burner-ish.
Don't laugh the muffler was given to me :D
I stand corrected ::)
Hehe...seriously...its not that bad....just saying. :)
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From my experience, I have the Calmini Header running to 2" exhaust. The Muffler Shop (yeh, original name for a muffler shop) told me anything more than 2" would not really make sense on a 4 cylinder, this was the owner telling me and hes an old family friend. I have the stock cat though, Im meaning to replace or just get rid off completely. I can see exhaust coming out real good, it sounds great, and it added a good chunk of HP, enough to easily get the tires spinning into 2nd. Granted, i have the 16 valve though.
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Silver is running a Calmini header, catless into stock size tubing and muffler. The exhaust smell is nasty without the cat and I wouldn't recomend going catless on a ragtop. It seems to work fine, though.
The Green Goblin is running a Hawk header into a 2" high flow cat, 2" Dynomax muffler and 2" tailpipe. The sound is very quiet idling, just as quiet as stock, but a little deeper tone and when I get on it, it gets a little louder than stock, but also deeper tone. Kinda sounds like a good throaty performance ricer sound, not the buzzy fart can style ricer wannabes...
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Thanks for suggesting using a cat, I didnt think about the smell issue. I will most likely go with the perf. cat. I see one on ebay that would work perfect. I saw a much cheaper one thats 2.5" inlet/outlet and I wonder if that would work well with 2" exhaust, Im not an exhaust expert.
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Silver is running a Calmini header, catless into stock size tubing and muffler. The exhaust smell is nasty without the cat and I wouldn't recomend going catless on a ragtop. It seems to work fine, though.
I run a softop with no cat and have never noticed exhaust smell. My husband's Samurai also doesn't have a cat and no exhaust from it either. He did have trouble with exhaust smell when he tried to rerout his tailpipe, but not since its back to stock location.
I run no cat, turbo muffler and 2" exhaust on my 8valve Sidekick. I like the deeper sound, but didn't really notice the change increased power. I need a header though. Thats one of the two mods I have left on my wish list! (but its an everevolving list!)
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Well, I guess the extra holes in my body and the tailpipe getting pushed/bent forward is probably the cause of the exhaust leeching into the interior, but I still suggest using a cat, even a performance one as it does help the smell and the environment...
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To best avoid smell and CO, exit the exhaust to the side and not out the back.
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Here in california, we have the most nazi smog regulations, so I cant get rid of the cat. I wish mine was the 49 state one, so I could put all the 49 state accessories, like the calmini header and the intake and cam. I can still put a header on it, but it has to be the DT 50 state one, and since the cam doesnt affect smog too much on these, I could put one in it.
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Ok well i have stock exhaust, with a high flow turbo muffler, i have a custom 3.5" short ram intake, "yeah its a little ricy sounding" and you here the intake more then the exhaust, "yeah it makes a funny sound when its ideling" and on a dry day i can spin the back tires through first, chirp into seccond, on a wet day you are lucky to keep traction until you hit third, and if i want to i can spinn then through 3rd on a wet day, it is an 8valve motor, proted and polished when i rebuilt the head and timeing is a bit advanced.
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I am running a calmini header and have not had any issues with smog here in ca..
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The Green Goblin is running a Hawk header into a 2" high flow cat, 2" Dynomax muffler and 2" tailpipe. The sound is very quiet idling, just as quiet as stock, but a little deeper tone and when I get on it, it gets a little louder than stock, but also deeper tone. Kinda sounds like a good throaty performance ricer sound, not the buzzy fart can style ricer wannabes...
That sounds like something Id want to look into.
The only thing is that Id want to turn it into dual 2"s
Header ---> 2" CAT ---> 2" Muffler ---> Dual 2"s with tips.
Do you think that would ruin performance?
Can I run bigger duals? 2.5"?
What about all that "backpressure" stuff?
What do you think would be the best setup?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!
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X32...................X32CarDomainPage...................X32 (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/673055)[/url][/size]
I want to swap my bolt
pattern from 5x139 to 5x114.
If anyone has any input,
please let me know!
Also, I get a lot of people who
want to buy my UNIQUE Tracker.
(so if youre SERIOUS and got the $$$)
contact me and we can talk.
RyouBakua|removethispart|@Hotmail.com[/size]
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anyone?
or should I make a whole thread for it?
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I dont have a Sidekick at this time, but should have a machine soon. I plan on purchasing a stock unit and adding aftermarket things that I want. This is a common thing to do with Suzuki's these days, especially with Calmini backing them up. Anyway I plan on getting a Calmini header exhaust combo [ NO CAT ] and routing the catback through their single tube rear bumber [ Calmini of course ]. I figure this is one of the best set-ups available and is designed for off-road driving. I am not a fan of the stock Sidekick rear bumper because of how the exhuast tail-pipe runs through it, causing it to melt and things. It just doesnt look good! I guess buy installing the Calmini unit this problem would be eliminated. I also have no air-care or smog regulations where I live here in British Columbia so chopping the cat is no problem. The 1.6L 8V sounds great with a performance exhaust system, well I think so. Maby someone could post pics how they have their tail pipe routed. :-\