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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Quaddawg on May 06, 2006, 03:27:56 PM
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OK, it happened, had to back off a steep hill today, foot sort of slipped off clutch and I knew something would break.. and it did.. just busted the "ear" off the rear of the front diff.. split it in two actually... it's still ok in forward, but trailing throttle, or reverse, or engine breaking down big hills will pull it out and allow the pinion flange to rub on the bell housing? (I think it's the bell housing.. anyway.... it's broken
Has anyone had ANY luck welding, stregthening or fixing this problem?
I saw a picture in another thread of a front housing that was totally armored, and welded with aluminum plate all around it..ÂÂ
I would like to just go ahead and put the steel housing in it, but there aren't any in junkyards around here.. how are they from Hawk's or something?  I will have to use my old carrier right? OR, will my ring and pinion fit the GV housing and carrier as is? ( I GET CONFUSED on this, I have read the article before..)
Crud. Now I know why so many people either do a SAS or gooti beefier componants.. I baby my Trackick in the rough stuff and still break it fairly easily.
I have a guy that can weld aluminum very very well..  I would like to go steel, but I really can't afford it right now.. I also don't want to buy a new front housing, why spend more money on weak stuff...ÂÂ
CRAP!
LOL..
Well, this is going to have to wait a couple weeks to get fixed, I have other concerns at the moment. Guess I will take a break till I get this sorted.
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There is another way if you don't mind doing some fabbing and that is to modify a Sammy housing. It's a bit of mucking around but it does work. A whole lot easier is to get a GV steel one. Also have a look at Izook in the tech archive for another option with the alloy housing.
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Better have that sucker fixed before the 3rd!
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Whats the 3rd?
Bill
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Whats the 3rd?
Bill
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=11384.0
I can't imagine it will be broken for a month... that's just not like me..... lol
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OK, it happened, had to back off a steep hill today, foot sort of slipped off clutch and I knew something would break.. and it did.. just busted the "ear" off the rear of the front diff.. split it in two actually... it's still ok in forward, but trailing throttle, or reverse, or engine breaking down big hills will pull it out and allow the pinion flange to rub on the bell housing? (I think it's the bell housing.. anyway.... it's broken
Has anyone had ANY luck welding, stregthening or fixing this problem?
I saw a picture in another thread of a front housing that was totally armored, and welded with aluminum plate all around it..ÂÂ
I would like to just go ahead and put the steel housing in it, but there aren't any in junkyards around here.. how are they from Hawk's or something?  I will have to use my old carrier right? OR, will my ring and pinion fit the GV housing and carrier as is? ( I GET CONFUSED on this, I have read the article before..)
Crud. Now I know why so many people either do a SAS or gooti beefier componants.. I baby my Trackick in the rough stuff and still break it fairly easily.
I have a guy that can weld aluminum very very well..  I would like to go steel, but I really can't afford it right now.. I also don't want to buy a new front housing, why spend more money on weak stuff...ÂÂ
CRAP!
LOL..
Well, this is going to have to wait a couple weeks to get fixed, I have other concerns at the moment. Guess I will take a break till I get this sorted.
Here's that article.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/feature_sidekickdrivetrainimprovements.htm
Yeah, the article does seem a bit confusing... As I read it, the GV front third matches closest to the 'Kick aluminum front third as does the XL-7 steel front housing. To solve the problem, it looks like you take the "guts" out of your aluminum third, stick it into the GV third, then stick it onto the XL-7 housing and then plug everything back in.
But they refer a Samurai front carrier, too... I guess the Samurai carrier with it's 4 pin spider gears and the extra machining was added in the article for extra strength and would possibly be optional. Probably a good option for hard wheeling, though ;D
Finally, I have an aluminum front third housing laying about that I snatched the 4.625 R&Ps out of that you can have (!) for shipping.
PM me.
Hope this helps!
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Was a steel offered in an earlier model... If you tell me what to look for in a junkyard, I'll do some searching in my area...
ERock
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Was a steel offered in an earlier model... If you tell me what to look for in a junkyard, I'll do some searching in my area...
ERock
From my experiences, there is nothing but Aluminum on all TracKicks. Only in the XL-7 and GV do you find Steel components... Maybe they exist in the Sport models, but that's just a wild guess.
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Ack, thanks for the offer. I may just take you up on that, as finances are close right now.. getting ready for summer..
Will the steel third housing bolt up to the alumium axle housing? I doubt it, but if I could do it in stages, I could probably afford to order just the third housing for now...
If not, then, ack.. I would really love to take you up on the offer...
THANKS!
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Regarding swapping the Sami Carrier into the GV third, this is done primarily so you can fit the Sami Lockright into the front diff. I'm sure the steel carrier is a bit stronger too if you are really hard on them.
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The steel housing will bolt up to the alloy....and the Sport has alloy housings too.
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time for the strait axle!!! now you have an exuse to really upgrade
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The 3rd are interchangable. THe Steel came out in some early GV's (V-6, 5 speed I believe), and in most of the XL-7's (but not a few of the early ones) If you are junk yard hunting just tale a magnet with you to check. You do take the guts out of your diff and place it in the steel 3rd and that can bolt to an aluminum, steel or Anvil housing. The Sami carier is to fit a locker in the front as mentioned above, There is a comparison alum to XL-7 in http://zukiworld.com/month_110103/feature_zigsbeef.htm
HTH, Zig
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ah, that's good news.. Now to try to find a steel 3rd housing.. Good to know it will bolt up to an aluminum axle housing.. IF, I can find one, I can do it in stages, and get an anvil, or XL7 stee axle housing later..
BUT, I might still need that aluminum 3rd Ack!!
Maplebar, I am a bit confused on your post, I think you might be calling the 3rd member housing a carrier?? not sure..
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Well I am no where near a mechanic, but I think I got the right terminology (or at least what is commonly used around this board). An optional upgraded when doing diff work is to replace the Sidekick carrier with a modified Samurai 4 pin carrier. The Samurai carrier is a different design (4-pins and steel) and there is a Lockright and Detroit locker application for them. You can then install your R&P, Sidegears and a locker with the Samurai carrier into your GV/XL7 Steel diff and bolt that to whatever axle housing you want (stock aluminum, GV/XLY steel, Anvil).
Here's the article using a Sami carrier, Detroit locker and XL7 axle housing
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/feature_sidekickdrivetrainimprovements.htm
Here's the article using a Sami carrier, Detroit locker and Calmini Anvil
http://zukiworld.com/month_110103/feature_zigsbeef.htm
This is also where they mention that the XL7 3rd member has beefier mounting tabs than the GV and is therefore a stronger upgrade option.
One more 3rd member and Carrier upgrade article, Front end upgrades with Hagen.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm
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I would like to put some information in one place about Housings and 3rds. I have the following info so far, but do not have all the info (see the ??s). ÂÂ
Can you guys help me make sure the info I do have is correct and help me fill in the spaces?
I'll Update this post as info comes available.
XL-7 2001+  4 doors
ENGINE
 2.7-Liter, V6, DOHC, 24-Valve
TRANSMISSION/with Related RING AND PINION RATIO
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 4.30
 Auto, Ring and Pinion 5.12
FRONT DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO:
 All XL-7 have steel front Differential Housings, but the crossmember mount is different and does not directrly bolt to a GV, Vitara, Sidekick, or Tracker.   (crossmember needs mounting holes drilled in it)
  XL-7 Front Carrier uses airline to acitvate 4wd.
  Front Diff 26 Spline
  XL-7 CV shafts are longer than GV, Vitara, Sidekick, or Tracker CV Shafts.
  4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
REAR DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO
  Rear Diff ?? Spline
  4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
Grand Vitara 1999+ 4 doors,
ENGINE
 2.5-Liter, V6,  24-Valve, 4-Cam, Engine
TRANSMISSION/with Related RING AND PINION RATIO
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 4.30
 Auto, Ring and Pinion 4.88
FRONT DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO:
 99+ manual, 2004+ Auto, Grand Vitara have Steel Front Housings, Bolts directly to a Vitara, Sidekick, and Tracker (no modification required).
 Front Diff 26 Spline
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
REAR DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO
  Rear Diff ?? Spline
  4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
Vitara 1999+ 2 and 4-door,
ENGINE
 1.6 Liter, 16-Valve, SOHC, Engine
 -or-
 2.0 Liter, 16-valve, DOHC
TRANSMISSION/with Related RING AND PINION RATIO
  Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 4.88
  Auto, Ring and Pinion 5.12
FRONT DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO:
 ALL housings are Aluminum
 26 Spline
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
REAR DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO
  ?? Spline
  4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
Tracker  2 and 4 Door
ENGINE 1.3, 1.8 ??
TRANSMISSION/with Related RING AND PINION RATIO
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 5.12
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 5.38 (1989-91 8v Five-Speed 4 Door Only)
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 5.62 (1989 1.3 Five-Speed Only)
 Auto, Ring and Pinion  4.62
 Auto, Ring and Pinion  4.30 (Ca Model 16v 2 Door Only)
FRONT DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO:
 ALL housings are Aluminum  ??
 96+ 26 Spline ??
 95- 22 Spline ??
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
REAR DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO
 ?? Spline
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
Samurai  (I have not had time to research all the Samurai info.)
ENGINE 1.3 ??
TRANSMISSION/with Related RING AND PINION RATIO
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 3.73 ALL SWB??
 Five-Speed Manual, Ring and Pinion 3.90 ALL LWB pickups??
FRONT DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO:
 ALL housings are Aluminum  ??
 ??+ 26 Spline
 ??- 22 Spline
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
REAR DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING INFO
 ?? Spline ??
 4 or 2 Pin Spider Gears ??
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After reading my first post again I think I may have confused you by stating that the Sami carrier is steel (implying that the sidekick isn't). I'm not completely sure on that part, it was something I thought I picked up when seeing the Sami guys talk about using a sidekick 3rd. They always say you should swap the R&P gears and not just bolt it up because the Sami stuff is stronger and steel. Of course they may have just been talking about the 3rd member housing.
Here's a post Zig made a while ago to clear up his article a little bit.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=8035.msg81849#msg81849
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Yeah Maple, that is the sentence that made me think you were confused.. I can see now you aren't. ;D
I don't need the sammy carrier, as I am not going to lock the front with a sammy locker... I might get the trail tough locker and carrier.. I may not.
All I need is a steel 3rd housing for now.. Hawk says he has one.. but he won't price it via email, so I have to actually call and talk to someone... lol will do that today.
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Just give him a call. I have called a couple of times, he didn't have what I was looking for but was very nice to talk to and picks up in 1-2 rings.
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Andy,
Here's the link to the fix I called you about.
http://www.izook.com/tech/tracker/pinion/pinion.htm
Hope this helps.....
Later Tom K.
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I heard that the newer "Chevy Trackers" like the funny looking body style ones from 98 or 99+ have steel fronts as well. Can anyone confirm this? It may be easier to find a junked one of those compared to a suzuki GV model.
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Jeezle Petes!! Hawks want $255 for just the 3rd housing...
Too rich for my blood at this point in time.. that article said they got one for $165 from a dealer... didn't it??
OH WELL..
ACK, I guess I will take you up on that aluminum one for now..
PLEASE!! lol...
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Crap.. no wreckers around here even HAVE a GV..
I am going to have to weld this one up and add some beef... or something..
I will swap ACK's in for now.. but it'll break again..
What started out as a love affair, is slowly sending me back to Jeeps.. these little trucks just aren't made for this sort of abuse.....
I don't care for the ride of a SAS on a tracker........ CRAP..
Maybe I will just sell this thing and move to another hobby..
dejected.... broke.. and tired of breaking stuff so easily..
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How easily you sway to the darkside... :P Here's the link to the reinforced 3rd member.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/240265/4
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/240000-240999/240265_70_full.jpg)
Might be a good plan if you have a buddy that can weld aluminun.
It seems that the steel diff/3rd were cheaper and easier to find a few years ago before EVERYONE knew about them and wanted to upgrade.
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I heard that the newer "Chevy Trackers" like the funny looking body style ones from 98 or 99+ have steel fronts as well. Can anyone confirm this? It may be easier to find a junked one of those compared to a suzuki GV model.
I don't think so. Mine doesn't and Chevy did not offer a MT with the V6 (which is where you find them on the Suzukis).
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dawg, just get a sammy rear 3rd and use it up front. Youll have to weld a block on it for the pinion mount. Theres a tech write up on it by Mike. The thing I really like is its got 4 spider gears instead of just 2. I busted my stock spiders at the Melt last year. Ive got a extra housing but no carrier, if you can find a cheap or freebee carrier youll be in business..
Bill
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Are you talking about this
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm
It says he's using a Sami carrier with the GV 3rd member housing.
However that would probably work since you can bolt a Sidekick front to a Sami. Has anyone done that?
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'03+ Grand Vitaras, regardless of manual tranny or auto, have steel front housings. I checked and ours has steel despite it's auto trans.
Now let me say that we have a late year '03 and it has more in common with '04 models than earlier '03 GV's....soooo some '03 GV's might have aluminum front housings...I dunno for sure. :P
Jeeps break too, remember the D30 front axle and the D35 rear axle...then there's some of their craptastic transmissions...
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Are you talking about this
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm[/url]
It says he's using a Sami carrier with the GV 3rd member housing.
However that would probably work since you can bolt a Sidekick front to a Sami. Has anyone done that?
Yeah, maybe a sami carrier would be better in the long run...
LOL...
I am just venting.. I love this little truck... but as soon as I get some cash together, I am seriously thinking ANVIL!! or at LEAST steel for both housings.. then I wonder what breaks.. prolly axles... lol...
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Are you talking about this
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm[/url]
It says he's using a Sami carrier with the GV 3rd member housing.
However that would probably work since you can bolt a Sidekick front to a Sami. Has anyone done that?
The sammy rear 3rd will bolt into the aluminum housing. This is the setup I run with a Lockrite.
Bill
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My 5.62's will bolt up to the sammy carrier and clear in the housing and everything too, right?
that might be a plan, I can weld a block on for the mount, or make one of those horse collar mounts I think... I think I can , I think I can... LOL.
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The only other thing youll need is a diff can. Its a piece of aluminum that slides onto the carrier to hold the spider gear pin from falling out. Spidertrax sell them.
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Crap.. no wreckers around here even HAVE a GV..
I am going to have to weld this one up and add some beef... or something..
I will swap ACK's in for now.. but it'll break again..
What started out as a love affair, is slowly sending me back to Jeeps.. these little trucks just aren't made for this sort of abuse.....
I don't care for the ride of a SAS on a tracker........ CRAP..
Maybe I will just sell this thing and move to another hobby..
dejected.... broke.. and tired of breaking stuff so easily..
Don't worry about breaking a second housing... I have another!
The first time you want to upgrade after "crossing over", you'll wish you bought a Samurai -- or kept your Tracker!
;D
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Yeah, I am not going to cross over.. I have been driving this little thing on the street all week, since I can't safely wheel it for a little while.. I just love these little things..
Even for street vehicles, they are pretty darned cool..
I haven't seen even ONE more Tracker with any sort of off road mods on it around here. Not one... so, it is still pretty unique in my area too....
Heeps are everywhere...