ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Adventure (Let's GO WHEELING!) => Topic started by: LilRed on May 10, 2006, 08:05:28 PM
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  We took a couple of Samis, my Kick & the brother n law's 05 Rubicon to Paddy's Bluff for some fun this past weekend, and boy did we find it! After rain off & on all week, and more on Sat. night, the muddy hills were like ice! My buddy Jerry keep his winch busy pulling out stuck jeeps as well! Was lots of fun to tease the Rubicon when all 3 Zuks made hills he couldn't make with both lockers! All that weight did him in!ÂÂ
  On these hills, if you didn't make it to the top, as soon as you stopped moving forward, you'd start sliding back. I'd hit em as hard as I could, and come back down twice as fast! Luckily, no trees nearby!
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/nooptions/c1e138ac.jpg)
  I named this one Tailgate hill. First it bit Jerry's Samurai tailgate.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/nooptions/JSamitailgatehill1-06.jpg)
  Lucky me, I made it up farther than either of the Sami's, but not far enough so I tagged two trees! Slid back into the tree in the picture. Winched the back end out so I was straight on the trail, and I'll be darned if I didn't slide into the next tree down just as soon as I started releasing the brake!! Looks dang near impossible in the pics, but it was like a frigging magnet!!
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/nooptions/LKicktailgatehill2-06.jpg)
  I ended up the same way one of the Sami's and the Rubicon had been earlier in other spots when I tried to follow Jerry's Sami through the Mud Run! The water was only inches below the bottom of the window! I feared I had sucked water into the motor, but only lost the air filter!!
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/nooptions/LKickMudRun2-06.jpg)
  Guess I'll be washing the Zuks this weekend!
 ÂÂ
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Looks like fun!
How much pressure do you run in that Track's tires? they look kinda full, and sorta slick?? :)
I sure wish I had been there.. I like slippery climbs!!!
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Looks like fun!
How much pressure do you run in that Track's tires? they look kinda full, and sorta slick??  :)
I sure wish I had been there.. I like slippery climbs!!!
  Oh, I reckon I had around 25lbs to begin with, maybe down to 18 by the end of the weekend!! I have slow leaks from all the crap in the bead so they air themselves down! LOL!! Gotta get em cleaned up!! But I don't usually air down very low for mud!!!
  I'll post up next time we go and maybe you can make it down!
 ÂÂ
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The looks like it was alot of fun, I wish we had some hills like that around here
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I find that slick hills are 10x easier aired down to 5 or 6..... seriously.. no comparison, night and day, do you find otherwise?? just curious..
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I find that slick hills are 10x easier aired down to 5 or 6..... seriously.. no comparison, night and day, do you find otherwise?? just curious..
  I wouldn't know. Anytime we're running trails we slick hills, we anticipate running through deep mud as well. You don't want to do that with low tire pressure. So generally, my tire pressures are higher when mudding than dry or rocky conditions.
  But, I seldom run mine lower than 12psi on dry trails. And depending on where we're riding, I sometimes will start out fairly high and only air them down when I get to somewhere I pretty much have to. I'm too stingy with my ground clearance as that stops me more often than loss of traction. Plus, the extra challenge on hills and experiencing different pressures in same places will do me good! Being my first 4x4, I kinda try to build my driving skills rather than build my vehicle to compensate for my lack of them! And besides all that, I'm only running 235 MTs, so no so much ground clearance and I'd think the tire pressure changes make less of a difference than on bigger offroad tires.ÂÂ
   Which all brings me to a question for you . . . aren't you running 31" LTBs? If you're airing down to 5 or 6, how much height are you losing? All along, I've planned to eventually run 31" tires and I like the look of the LTBs, but now that I've more experiences and kinda seen all the effects of larger tires on my Kick, I'm questioning if I won't lose more than I'll gain. Ground clearance is my Kick's biggest weakness now for most of the place we run.
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IDK about 5-6 that is coming REALLY close to bead problems, but 31's at 8-12 would still be larger than your 235's... IT IS TIME TO GO BIGGER! ;D
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5-6 is high for a sidekick.... we run 0psi in swampers offroad, no beadlocks, no problems.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/ObeseFieldMouse/P5080144Small.jpg)
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I've run my bias TSL's at 4-5 psi a few times, and never lost a bead (but I'd usually end up having 0 psi in at least one by the end of the day).
Nowadays I just run 8
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Right on, I hear you guys.
Red, I wheel some nasty trails and ground clearance is rarely an issue, I drag my tracker over stuff that others clear... but it goes and goes..
I wheel with a guy in a nice little Sammy, TC Reduction, locked front and rear, 33" LTB's, great ground clearance, INCHES more than me.. but still.. He leads, I follow, I lead, he gets stuck, or can't make it. I crawl stuff he slides down or spins up.. HE REFUSES TO AIR DOWN. The only time he even gets close to getting me stuck does happen to be ground clearance, but I haven't gotten stuck yet, and he sure has. His little truck would be unstopable if he would just air down. He won't go lower than 15, and thinks that is LOW LOW... he isn't even squatting those tires.. he could run 0 all day long and go anywhere.. I am totally serious. I am going to let ALL the air out on him, way out in the boonies, and steal his compressor.. just to get him to try it. He tells me the problem is that he is TOO light to make it up the hills... he just doesn't get it.
I have to totally disagree about mud and tire pressure.. I have no problems with 5psi in deep deep mud.
as far as it being less of a concern with your 235's, vs my ltbs... no, I am going to have to disagree with you there too.. I had 235's on it right before I put the 31's on it, and the difference was night and day.
I am also going to have to disagree with the driving skill statement. You don't want your tires spinning if you can get away from it. Spinning tires tears up trails, and you simply don't have as much control over your vehicle if your tires are spinning. A good driving skill to master is never spinning a tire. Of course you have to, and a lot.. I know that.. but anytime you can walk a hill other have to spin thier way to the top of, you are exhibiting driving skill, conservancy, long tire life, less componant wear.. etc.. etc...
Take a look at this diagram, and you tell me, does airing down increase traction??
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5-6 is high for a sidekick.... we run 0psi in swampers offroad, no beadlocks, no problems.
([url]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/ObeseFieldMouse/P5080144Small.jpg[/url])
Yeah, I agree, on SOME tires.. Those boggers are extremely stiff in the sidewall... and 0 is working great for you. My LTB's were exactly like that at first, now they are softer, as I have worn in the sidewalls, I can't really run 0 all the time any more... Well, I never did run it all the time, but several times yes.. I have caked up the beads with bark and mud a few times, but never lost a seal, or broke a bead.
Yep, you got the right idea for traction... narrower tires benefit even MORE from low pressure.. due to "mechanical keying" or the tire conforming to the terrain, and "gripping" it even better than wide tires.. ESPECIALLY with these light vehicles.. My next tires will be at LEAST an inch narrower, possibly more.
Check out THIS diagram..
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I am also going to have to disagree with the driving skill statement. You don't want your tires spinning if you can get away from it. Spinning tires tears up trails, and you simply don't have as much control over your vehicle if your tires are spinning. A good driving skill to master is never spinning a tire. Of course you have to, and a lot.. I know that.. but anytime you can walk a hill other have to spin thier way to the top of, you are exhibiting driving skill, conservancy, long tire life, less componant wear.. etc.. etc...
Take a look at this diagram, and you tell me, does airing down increase traction??
  I thought not spinning the tires was common sense, as well as airing down tires offroad!! I guess I have been lucky to have always ridden with a group that included experienced offroaders who gladly shared their knowledge. I do get a kick out of reading how amazed you are about it though!!!
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LOL..... I am sorry, I talk (type) a LOT...
I am just saying that I see a LOT of people spinning where they don't have to, and running too much tire pressure when less would work a LOT better. I am not trying to be a pest, but when I think I can help someone have more fun, and go more places, I speak up about things I have done.
I am an old fart, and have been wheeling full size for a while. I am new to these light buggies, and airing down is just amazing on these little things. Not sure what tires you are running, but do yourself a favor and just TRY the low pressure, I am sure you will be sold if you will just try it. I think 10 would work real well, I am not sure how flexible your sidewalls are, maybe even less than that...
I am a little confused with this statement:
"I thought not spinning the tires was common sense, as well as airing down tires offroad!! "
when you had just said this earlier:
"Oh, I reckon I had around 25lbs to begin with, maybe down to 18 by the end of the weekend!!
25 is probably more than you should be optimally be running ON road.. and 18 I am sure isn't as low as you could go.. not nearly...
I guess my point is this.. with 10 or less, I bet you wouldn't spin nearly as bad.
Please don't get angry with me, I am just trying to understand and be helpful.
It is not so much that I am amazed by it, it is that I am trying to get more people to DO IT. And by posting how amazed I am, maybe more folks will actually air down, and I mean AIR DOWN.. Bias plys down to 5-8 radials down to 8-12.
I would love to get out with you folks sometime..
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I bet you could air these down, and just float over snow too :)
~J~
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I would love to get out with you folks sometime..
  I'm sure our paths will cross sometime and I'm looking forward to it!! You are very helpful to a lot of people and its very appreciated!! Relax and don't worry so much!! ÂÂ
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LOL, I sure make a mess out of folks threads... HA!
Thanks.. a lot of people take offense at my straightforward approach to discussions.
It's hard to hear a tone of voice when reading, or to imply one when typing..
plus, I CAN be a smartass now and then.. but now in this case.
Are you guys going to be able to make the Daniel Boone run next weekend?? I am thinking about going down to Richmond Friday evening, and spending the night in a motel, so I don't have to get up at 4 am to drive from Ohio.
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  We're not going to make this one. I really, really wanted to as I love what I have seen of the DB and sounds like a great group going. But we just can't get away that weekend. More than likely, we won't ride again til Zookimelt. I expect you'll be there as well so we'll definitely have to meet then!!
Hope ya'll have a good time!
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Yeah, I will be at the melt.
I am pretty sure we are going to the DB run.. but I don't know who else is even coming, and now I am worried about my rear axles and this spool.. that would be expensive to get towed from down there... hmmmmmmmmmm
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quaddawq, I know exactly what you mean about your kick sliding over what it can't clear, I've done that with my GV many many times... it's so funny, even after denting my stock muffler and scraping the frame and some plastic on the body. Oh how I love zuks
thanks for all the info on airing down, next time I wheel (may be a while) I need to get a compressor out there so I can fill up after I try airing down, I'm getting some new tires in a month or so probably.. most likely general AT2's or chapperal A/P's in 235/70/R16 cause I won't be able to lift for a while and when I do they will probably be decent still as far asa size and tread.. going with an all terrainish tire because I mainly daily drive my zuk