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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Jeremiah on May 11, 2006, 07:14:49 PM

Title: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on May 11, 2006, 07:14:49 PM
I've got an overheating problem in my 1.3L - I think I just need to replace the head gasket ($70 fix), but it got me thinking... when my 1.3L does finally give out, what engine do I want to put in her?

I know of the following swaps:
1.6L "Stroker" from a Tracker / Sidekick
Doesn't require much modification from what I understand. Just a mounting kit, and modification of the oil pan / oil dilevery or some kind of a lift kit to clear the steering components. The popularity of this swap into the sami, and it's small size leave it wide open for bolt-ons like headers, A/C, power steering etc. You can even take the fuel injection with you (though this is appairently a wiring nightmare) or use the old 1.3L head if you want to stay naturally aspired... or any fun combination of heads / FI really.

Turbo / Supercharge It:
There's some good discussions out there already about Turbo vs Supercharged, and I don't want to re-hash the subject here. However, it's worth mentioning that this is a potential upgrade. There are no "bolt on" kits however, so be prepaired to make your own forced induction system. Aslo - forced induction tends to shorten the lifespan of a motor (some have said it doesn't, but I've never seen a turbo'd vehicle out last NA. It's been my experience that it usually cuts the life in 1/2... with the exception of diesel wich loves forced induction).

Toyota 22r
The 22r is pretty bulletproof, but it's usually a lot of $$$ and hard to fit into our Samurai. Also, it's one of the heaviest 4 Cyl motors out there, (so you'll have to do suspension mods, and you'll loose weight advantage, be more top heavy...). Appairently this isn't a good option when you consider what other motors can get stuffed in the Sami.

Chevy V6
Appairently there's a series of V6 engines from Chevy that can get stuffed into our Sami's. From what I understand it's GREAT power, and is about as powerful of a drivetrain as a Samurai can get.
Cons: Very little room in engine bay left for repairs or other upgrades, bad gas mileage and added weight.

1.6L & 1.9L VW diesels
These little work horses seem to produce great torque at low RPM (good for wheeling). They're also great on gas, and engine mounting kits are readily available (though in my opinion expensive |removethispart|@ $500-$800US). However, this cost is offset, because you won't need gear reduction - in fact - it's better to NOT get a gear reduction, as it will keep the engines in their power band.

2.4L Mercedes Diesel
Appairently this is a tight squeeze (may require re-locating radiator, and modifying the firewall). What you get is one of the longest lasting engines of all times (Mercedes has the longest running street engines ever - several have broke the 1 Million mile marker) and great low end torque. Appairently the gas mileage isn't quite as good at the VW, and MB parts are more expensive... but the MB Diesels are tanks. They'll outlive the cockroaches.

I've also heard of someone stuffing a Mazda rotery engine (seems like an odd choice, since rotaries get their power from high RPM), and also heard of someone using some kind of sporty Suzuki Swift engine (DOHC Turbo?). Though these may be urban legends for all I know.

Of Note:
The only thing I know of that we can legally do in California is the 1.6L swap (still need to get CHP to "ref" the upgrade - this means fees). I believe the other swaps are too "radical" for CHP to approve them :(

I'm a bit of a noob, so sorry if I have got some of my facts wrong. Let me know what other swaps you have done / know can be done. Fell free to post links / writeups / how-to's - lets discuss!

~J~
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: wildgoody on May 11, 2006, 07:18:25 PM
I think you could do a 1.6L swap and never
worry about the smog guys, the engines
look so much alike, a Smog tech would never
know
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jayzuki on May 11, 2006, 11:34:51 PM
Wow! Excellent writing Jeremiah, lots of info you have here.

Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on May 12, 2006, 11:21:25 AM
I think you could do a 1.6L swap and never
worry about the smog guys, the engines
look so much alike, a Smog tech would never
know

Yeah, this is probably what I'm going to do myself. I like that it's
1) Keeps what I like about the Sami (simple / cheap / easy to work on)
2) Lots of "support" as it's a common swap, it's easy to ask questions if I get stuck
3) Can prolly fool the smog guy

Mostly, I wanted to have one place where noobs, like me, can look and get an idea of what swaps are out there. Eventually I might even make a spread sheet like thing.... ah the possibilities?


~J~
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: takai on May 12, 2006, 11:59:04 AM
I would have to agree with Wild. I have the 1.6 16v in my Samurai and the only I would have done different is doing it sooner. LIke you, I waited for my 1.3 to grenade before I swapped. My roomate has a 1.6 bottom end with the 1.3 head and a weber. It has a lot more power than stock but I get better mileage and more "vigorous" acceleration w/ FI. Either of these could be done in the driveway. The 16v just takes a little more work with the wiring harness. IMO, it is worth the time.  ;D
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on May 12, 2006, 12:38:14 PM
I would have to agree with Wild. I have the 1.6 16v in my Samurai and the only I would have done different is doing it sooner. LIke you, I waited for my 1.3 to grenade before I swapped. My roomate has a 1.6 bottom end with the 1.3 head and a weber. It has a lot more power than stock but I get better mileage and more "vigorous" acceleration w/ FI. Either of these could be done in the driveway. The 16v just takes a little more work with the wiring harness. IMO, it is worth the time.  ;D

When I do the swap, I'll keep the fuel injection. To me, FI is worth the wireing hastles for shure! And, the 1.6L head breathes better.


~J~
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on May 12, 2006, 01:00:01 PM
Edited to add some info I found when searching for the Toyota swap:

Toyota 22r
The 22r is pretty bulletproof, but it's usually a lot of $$$ and hard to fit into our Samurai. Also, it's one of the heaviest 4 Cyl motors out there, (so you'll have to do suspension mods, and you'll loose weight advantage, be more top heavy...). Appairently this isn't a good option when you consider what other motors can get stuffed in the Sami.
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: wildgoody on May 12, 2006, 01:24:55 PM
Not to mention the cracking head problems,
or was that the 20R ?
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jayzuki on May 12, 2006, 01:39:34 PM
I am into Sidekicks but enjoy looking and reading about the Samurai model's and all of the swaps and things people do to them. I believe fuel injection is a must have, so the extra time spent while swapping a fuel injection engine should be 100% worth the time.


Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: takai on May 12, 2006, 03:24:59 PM
Not to mention the cracking head problems,
or was that the 20R ?

The 20R is more prone to cracking heads. 22R's run just about forever.

"I've also heard of someone stuffing a Mazda rotery engine (seems like an odd choice, since rotaries get their power from high RPM), and also heard of someone using some kind of sporty Suzuki Swift engine (DOHC Turbo?). Though these may be urban legends for all I know."

The rotary conversion has been done. They would make for a decent street application but are horrible for off-road.
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on May 12, 2006, 04:15:02 PM
Not to mention the cracking head problems,
or was that the 20R ?

Probably thinking of 20R, as the 22R is known for their reliability. One of the reasons so many people look to toyota for offroading with very little modification.

My friend has one in his truck - finally warped a head after 300k+ miles in it - and he beats the PISS out of his rig. He gave the truck to his dad (who had a shop fix the head, and plopped it back in) - he uses it as a daily driver / work truck. Mind you - this is in California where we have STRICT smog requirements.

I've been 1/2 pondering a 1.8L (7afe) Toyota Celica engine... like I just so happen to have in my celica that has 230K+ miles. Their reliability is tip top, and Toyota designed them to get most their torque early on. This was one of Toyota's staple economy engines for a LONG time. I wonder how much more it would weigh?

Engine: 7A-FE
Cylinders: 4
Displacement: 1.8 liters
Type: DOHC
Horsepower: 110|removethispart|@5600 RPM2
Torque:(lbs.-ft.) 115|removethispart|@2800 RPM3

I'll have to take some measurements later...

~J~
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: steveofrost on May 12, 2006, 10:11:51 PM
One of my friends has a rotery. It's great in any mud and I mean DEEP stuff. Good in the hills and lots of speed. Not much of a crawler naturally...

One thing that is funny though is that when next to the big boys that rumble, that little guy hums like a juiced rice rocket.

steveo
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jeremiah on June 18, 2006, 11:54:18 AM
Of note - you can switch to Diesel in Californa, but you will need to get the car re-classified via CHP as a diesel vehicle. As a bonus - no more smog. See DMV for details.
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Suzuki1.8 on June 18, 2006, 12:14:48 PM
Why don't you just look into the suzuki 1.8l there twin overhead cams with chain drive and coil packs not distrubuter to deal with. pretty bullet proof and are almost a straight swap like a 1.6. plus they have 120 hp more then toyota 1.8
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Jayzuki on June 18, 2006, 12:22:31 PM
I think engine swaps are kool but why not stick with Suzuki Motors?
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: droppedtracker on June 18, 2006, 07:45:26 PM
you can swap the swift motor pretty easily as long as you get the entire wire harness, ecu, gauge cluster. the blocks are the same 1.3l, so no custom motor mounts. the swift has the twincam head. your looking at 30 more hp between the two motors. plus theres a ton of aftermarket support for the G13B. also the internals in the G13B are forged, unlike the sami 1.3l or the tracker 1.6l which are cast.
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: Rhinoman on June 19, 2006, 04:55:09 AM
you can swap the swift motor pretty easily as long as you get the entire wire harness, ecu, gauge cluster. the blocks are the same 1.3l, so no custom motor mounts. the swift has the twincam head. your looking at 30 more hp between the two motors. plus theres a ton of aftermarket support for the G13B. also the internals in the G13B are forged, unlike the sami 1.3l or the tracker 1.6l which are cast.

Swift distributor comes out of the rear of the head and won't clear the bulkhead, you need an adapter. AFAIK the headers will have to be custom made.
Title: Re: Engine Knowledge Base
Post by: wildgoody on June 19, 2006, 08:15:14 AM
The 1.3 twin cam engine is also a shorter stroke,
not a torquer for wheeling, but it could be made to work