ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Allan on May 24, 2006, 01:41:57 PM
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I little quiestion. Can I use ARB locker in my Samurai? If the answer is yes, what I need to do for to install this system, and aprox. how many money I need ?
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Yes ARB has lockers for the Samurai. They run $700+ per axle, the compressor is another couple hundred and then you have installation.
http://www.rocky-road.com/zukarb.html
and here is an install article on a Samurai
http://www.izook.com/tech/samurai/drivetrain/arb/arbinstl.htm
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I'll cost you about $1300 - $1500 shipped and professionally installed.
~J~
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put mine in before moab this year. well worth the cash. real nice turn it on your locked, turn it off your not locked. took about 2 1/2 hours to do it myself. just follow the directions. not bad to do. i'm putting one in the front this fall. can't wait.
Ross
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Ok, thanks every body for the information, I´ll think what I will to do.
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I agree with Ross. I just put an ARB in place of my self breaking Ez-Locker in front, and it's amazing how I can steer again. ;D
The new little ARB pump they came out with just for running the lockers works great, installed clean and is the only shiny thing in my engine compartment.
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Lockright is only $200, and they're very dependable. You could buy 2 sets (front and rear) and still have $1000 left over for other toys.
~J~
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Baloney, if you CAN get the ARB.. DO get the ARB... those little lockers aren't really the answer.
Lot's of folks say the lockrites have done them well, and I am sure they have done OK.. but I bet those folks have never experienced a switchable locker.
The unpredictability of the lockrite type lockers makes them twitchy and noisey, and in my opinion unsafe and unfit for street driving, I have felt a jeep try to change lanes on the freeway suddenly with them.. yuk...
I wish someone would make a full size locker for these diffs like a detroit or something.. that would be cool and give another option, but for now, all we have are these half ass lockrites and ez-breakers..
Yeah, lot's of folks will swear by them.. but if I were you, I would DRIVE one with that type of locker before commiting. Don't let anyone tell you ARB's are 1300 delivered and installed, cause you can do it yourself, and power them with CO2 or compressed air if you don't want to buy the compressor.. there ARE other alternatives... I think you could get out of it for $800-850 an axle. and
ARB's are LIGHTYEARS ahead of those spider replacement type lockers..
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Exist another system for axcel locker, diferent of ARB?
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I think ARB is the only option for selectible lockers for the Samurai/Trackers. But I think Quaddawg said it best, if you can get one, get one. One of our club members runs Dual ARB's in his TJ and said he would not go back to a standard locker.
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If you have the money to invest, sound's like its worth it....
Best of both worlds..
I am going to save up for ARB's vs. lockers....
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if i can get my hands on a set of 5.83 gears, they're going on with arb's. imagin trail riding with open diffs, and only having to lock them when needed. it's worth the extra expense in my opinion.
i don't think of arb's as locker as they are more like a selectable spool.
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Y'all might hate me for this, but....
If I wanted to spend $1000 instead of $200 for things like lockers - I'd just get a Landcrusher. The beauty of a Samurai (to me) is that they are good innexpensive offroaders. If I'm going to spend $8000+ on a rig, it's not going to be on a $500 body.
~J~
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I Agree
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sounds like someones wife told him no when he wanted arbs
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sounds like someones wife told him no when he wanted arbs
 Maybe. They're often wiser!!ÂÂ
  I see no reason to spend the money for an ARB for the rear. We've had lockrites on the rear of our Sami & Sidekick for a few years now and have had no trouble with them! Nor has anyone in our group. As for the noises, don't be scared!! I like the clicking as it lets me know all is working as it should, or not. Little jerky with tight turns in parking lots, but ya get used to it. On the road, they're actually pretty predictable, I think. Like any other mod, you get accustomed to how it reacts on the street and drive accordingly. Drives a little different, and more noticeable on a manual transmission, but predictable. Maybe an ARB if you drive a lot in snow and ice, but we don't get much here.ÂÂ
  As for the front, we just installed a lockrite on the front of the Sami but have only wheeled it once so the jury is still out there. But I've about convinced myself to go with an ARB in the front of the Kick. It IS hard to spend and justify the money though, when the ARB (without the compressor) is more than I gave for the Kick!
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I was lucky and picked up my ARB for 500 with 5.12 gears. Technically it came with an axel as well, but I already had two of those in the shop so I tend to not count them anymore. :P
If you keep your eye out, you can find used ones from when someone finally does an axel swap. I did the Spool in the rear and a Detroit EZ up front for cost savings originally. Sadly, I should have spent the extra 50 bucks at the time and bought a Lockright.
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Hands down, selectible lockers are the SHIT !!!!!! for the simple reason of...... lockrights are ALWAYS putting extra stress on the entire drivetrain. The selectible ONLY puts added stress on the drive train when you need the traction. PERIOD !!
I personaly will never turn back. anyone considering an ARB needs to drive a rig with one, it WILL change your mind
My new rig has one in the back and will soon have one in the front.(i'll use the lockright for practice welding or something)
jason
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we determined that the reason i snapped all 4 axles is the lock-rites let go when they were needed. never again. arbs only. the ones that say they cost to much shouldn't even comment. believe me if they had them they would brag about them and how great they are....
Ross
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Thank you all for chiming in with your experiences. I appreciate why some of you would rather see me purchase ARB's (I wish I could afford them). I still have armour, recovery equipment, bumpers, lift kits, bigger tires, larger powerplant, power steering, etc to purchase. Unfortunately, I just can't spend that kind of money for lockers at this time.
~J~
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Thank you all for chiming in with your experiences. I appreciate why some of you would rather see me purchase ARB's (I wish I could afford them). I still have armour, recovery equipment, bumpers, lift kits, bigger tires, larger powerplant, power steering, etc to purchase. Unfortunately, I just can't spend that kind of money for lockers at this time.
~J~
nobody can fault you for that.
i've been saving up for them. i just was hoping 5.83 gears would have been available by now. i've also got a pair of calmini's hd rear axel shafts sitting in my closet. bit by bit over time works for me.
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Y'all might hate me for this, but....
If I wanted to spend $1000 instead of $200 for things like lockers - I'd just get a Landcrusher. The beauty of a Samurai (to me) is that they are good innexpensive offroaders. If I'm going to spend $8000+ on a rig, it's not going to be on a $500 body.
~J~
No reason to hate.. but if you go to the original post, original question.. he is NOT debating between ARB and Lock-rites..
Also, I understand your limited budget, no biggie, but a Samurai with even just a $750 ARB in the rear is NOT an $8000 rig, and it is more capable that you might imagine, the plus is that a measly little $750 will buy you INCREDIBLE versatility. Lock-rites are cheap.. yeah... just that too.. CHEAP. Sure, they work, but ideal? FAR FROM IT.... that is all I was saying.
I would prefer a FREE WELDING JOB aka: Lincoln Locker to a Lock Right.. that is just me.. hell, I run a $100 spool, it's not like I am loaded and have ARB's front and rear... YET... but the point is.. at this stage, if you can afford ARB, then GO ARB!
That's all.. I understand your stance, but if you are that cheap, why bother with a Lockrite, when you can weld'em up for free????? Works just a good, and is WAY more predictable..
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I thought welded means that the axles are locked all the time, and this puts LOTS of stress on the drivetrain / wheels.
~J~
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a welded dif would be locked 100% of the time. But like quaddawg said it will be much more predictable. You wont the lockrite clicking. And plus with the welded rear it will kick ass off- road. I would weld the diff rather than get a lockrite myself.
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Just to make things clear, it's not the "clicking" around turns that bothers me, that is fine.
It's the sudden engage and disengage that causes the twitchyness at speed ON road.
Also, at slow speeds in parking lots when the driveline winds up and unloads.. I am telling you that BANG and CLANK can't be good.. it just can't!
Have any of you driven a rig with REAL Detroit lockers? you know full carrier lockers? They are seamless, and after looking at the way they work, those little spider replacement lockers just don't seam right.. I mean the sidegears and the toothed portion of the lockers don't even match up.. It is just SO half ass, I can't bring myself to put one in the rear.
NOW, I might be use one up front.. off road only stuff.. but in the rear, I feel much better about having a spool, or welded gears, a full locker (which isn't made for our rigs, yet..prolly never) OR, in the BEST case... and ARB.
If I were swapping axles, I would just use a full detroit, if I couldn't afford an ARB. But, they can run from $350-500 too... so at that point, the cost is closer to an ARB..
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What's a spool? And, I thought spools were only available for Trackicks?
~J~
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I actually run a mini-spool, it replaces the spiders and the side gear, as well as the pinion block.
A full spool replaces the whole carrier, the ring bolts right to it, not made for our applications, but made for just about every other axle, common in drag racing and drifting and such, light, strong, nearly bullet proof.. but, like I said, no one makes one for zuks that I know of.
Welding does the same thing as a mini spool, yeah they are locked full time, wears your tires and is hard on axles, but I haven't broken one on the street......yet...lol I have broken an axle in a fullsize with a full spool, but I was farting around and deserved it, it was about 20 years ago though... on a Dodge...
The Minispool I use was actually made for a samurai, but fits the trackick too, got it from Randy's Ring and Pinion.
Read up on the other lockers available for the more popular axles.. the lockrites, and ez-lockers are looked down on by almost every hard-core off roader, since they were invented.. I know, cause I used to roll with a lot of guys like that. A full locker, like a Detroit, is a true posi and works much better than the lockrite type of locker.
Folks messing with Suzukis sometimes forget that the other full size carrier replacing lockers... like the one pictured below, is really much much better than a lockrite style, these are tried and true, and sworn by, by TONS of offroaders.. I sure wish someone would make one for our trucks... They are available used for about the same price as a lockrite..
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Here are mini-spools and a full spool to give you an idea.
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Thoose are some good pics 8)
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Thanks, I steal pictures well... LOFL!!
While we are at it, here are some more
Read the file names to keep them straight.
The full locker above is actually for a Ford 9 inch, NASCAR style...
Here are some more.
A govlock which is good, and a Powertrax No-slip, which I put below a Detroit, but above a Lockrite or ezlocker.. it fits inside a carrier, but doesn't have backlash, so the drive line can't wind up and unload.. plus it doesn't click OR bang.. lol
and finally, a true Detroit GM application, the most common type of locker seen in off road and racing apps.. The TrueTrac..
Once again, this doesn't pertain to us, unless we use swapped axles.. as they are NOT made for us.. sure wish they would.. Lockrites are only being recommended because they don't make GOOD lockers for us (Except ARB...) I guarantee noone would debate this if they did... hands down.
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I forgot, the cable locker!!!
Even bettter than ARB I think.. as no air needed
And oh yeah.. since the title of this topic is ARB Locker..
The one and only
ARB air locker!!!!!!
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Good lamer site - being a lamer / noob myself, I found this site to have some good info:
http://www.bc4x4.com/pr/2000/spool/spool.cfm
Looks like some of your same spools are available:
http://www.ring-pinion.com/content/products/default.asp?vid=10&pid=5
Another minispool:
http://www.trailtough.com/sidekick.htm
And, harp on these guys to finish up their project at the bottom of the page then:
http://www.izook.com/spy/roadlessgear/roadlessgear.htm
Since 95% of my driving is ON road, I guess I'm just reluctant to have my diff locked all the time. Shure wish there was someone local with a lockrite so I could "feel" what it's like myself. Grrrr... how frustrating.
~J~
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Well, if 95% is on road, then no, I wouldn't weld OR Spool it. That is a LOT of on road.. lol...
hmmmmm, if that was the case, I would probably agree with you and get a lockrite, UNTIL I COULD AFFORD AN ARB :P (JK, well, not really...)
You can get used to anything, and yeah, reluctantly I am going to say that a Lockrite does make pretty good sense in your situation.
Maybe a limited slip would suit you? Someone makes one for the Sammy I think... right??
I am not really a Sammy guy (would like to be though.. it's on my list...) so I don't know alot about what is available for them.
Yep, 95% on road is the PERFECT time for an ARB. Just think of it as, well... an expensive toy you REALLY REALLY REALLY want.. and besides, if you did go ahead and save up for one, you would probably be driving more off-road and less on... ;D
I hear you man, to spend that bread on a locker is a big step, but selectable lockers are just so the shit.
I just got back in from driving the little Tracker all day on road (found some power line right of way to climb though.. was a blast, did most of it in 2x4, as I still haven't fixed the front diff..)
Mini-spool and all.. yeah, the tires chirp going around corners, and I KNOW it's hard on axles and tires.. but still, it was a blast, not irritating and I am so used to the spool now, I hardly notice it. SO, if I can get used to a spool, I am sure you could get used to the Lockrite, you will probably not even notice/mind it at all... since I made such a big deal out of it, especially :P
I have prepared you for a HORRIBLE experience, and it will seem so tame when you do get it, you will wonder if I am a nut or what... lol... I don't like'm, but THOUSANDS of people like them just fine..
I just make more noise... LOFL...
You are the only one that will be able to say if you do, or don't. And as others have said, a lot depends on how they are set up, too. Set'em up loose, and they will make all sorts of noise. I would recommend using the Lock-right side gears, they at least look like they should engage. The ones I have seen with stock side gears just don't look right, the stock side gears are rounded, and the lockrite teeth are squared off.. just looks half ass.
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I got a lock right on the rear axle of my vitara and the thing is, I hardly notice it. It does click, but I can only hear it when I am parking. During normal drive it goes smoth and works just fine, I realy like it. Mine was installed with the stock sidegears, and my car is an auto( some say it works nicer on autos), If I had to chose again I would have gotten lockrights again but this time with the couplers.
I am thinking on my next move and saving money for the front axle, I am sure lockright is going to afect my riding since most of the time I ride on mud terrains, I just do not know how much it is going to interfere with steering on mud : ) since I have never driven anything with an lockright up front so because of that I am considering an ARB, but just for the front, the rear will remain with the lockrights.
My parents and my sister do drive my car and none f them noticed the change before I told them, after the lockrights. I think this says some.
but still I agree it would be realy nice to have more options with lockers, I would realy like to have an eletrac on my axles.
ARBs are sweet but I do not know if it justifies paying that much more, your kick has so many things to mess up riding already, I am pretty sure a lockright bother a lot less than mud tyres.
Gui
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Calmini has a limited slip for $459, I've been considering that for the rear and maybe front some day since it sounds a little more civilized for on road use (mines a DD) then a locker and cheaper and less stuff to go wrong then a air locker (no compressor, etc..)....
"This unit is the factory stuff!. This clutch type unit features precise torque loading and puts the power to the ground by eliminating the traction loss of a spinning drive wheel. This units design incorporates a progressive rate of slippage that delivers predictable on and off-road performance and reduced driveline component stress. Consider this instead of a locker if you drive mainly on ice or snowy road on-road conditions. Unit is available for the front and rear of all Sidekicks and Trackers and the front 10-bolt as well."
(http://www.puresuzuki.com/LSDfs.jpg)
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Calmini :'(
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For real offroad work the LSD isn't really the answer although teamed with traction control they can be pretty effective. If you can afford it and it is for a daily driver then the ARB's are sweet plus you will have a compressor onboard for airing up which is 8) I have them front and rear. If the budget can't afford it then there are other options as has been mentioned. Everything is a compromise but however you get it more traction is great.
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Quaddawg - again, thank you for chiming in so much on this. If I ever decide to go radical / super offroad ready with my rig, ARB's will be #1 on my list :)
~J~
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Ok thanks everybody.
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Quaddawg - again, thank you for chiming in so much on this. If I ever decide to go radical / super offroad ready with my rig, ARB's will be #1 on my list :)
~J~
LOL, it's hard to get me to shut up.. I am lucky to be able to type as fast as I talk....... LOL...
I have opinions, and am hardheaded in my beliefs, but I do listen to reason every now and again..
I think I will go buy a lockrite for the front axle now.. HAHA!! not kidding.. I can't justify ARB's at the moment either.. 8)
All in all, just for grins, I drove the Tracker about 200 miles this weekend, with the spool, and it was just fine..
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How is it driving with a locker in the rear?
Is it ok to drive freeway speeds?
How does it react going around corners at freeway speeds?\
Can you still drive your kick on trips?
Thanks
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How is it driving with a locker in the rear?
Depends on the kind of locker. Go here, and read about the different types:
http://www.bc4x4.com/pr/2000/spool/spool.cfm
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All in all, just for grins, I drove the Tracker about 200 miles this weekend, with the spool, and it was just fine..
Have you pulled the axles to check the splines? I know a lot of people said when they were working on the rear they found out that the splines were starting to twist.
Here's a good thread on the subject from a few years ago.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4946.0
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Yeah, I am pretty sure they will look not so good when I pull them out.. Actually, every time I turn a corner I wait for the SNAP.. I guess I had better get a spare, or two..
I REALLY thought I would have an ARB by now, but it just hasn't happened, something else keeps coming up.
I am either going to stop driving it on the street, or I'm gonna break an axle.. but as it stands, I have over 400 miles since the spool, street AND off-road, but mostly off road miles
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I have run both lock rites and ARB. Like was said if you can afford it the ARB wins.
100% nicer and work great offroad. When If I get the cash together a set will be going in my X-90. I would not run a locrite in this rig as it is a dd and will see dirt once in awhile.
My other rigs where 95% offroad. and I was still glad to have the ARB's as it just drove like normal on the street.
If you do use a Loc rite or detroit, buy the repair kit as part of the initial purchase as you will need them . also make sure the axle housing it still straight or they will not work right.
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make sure the axle housing it still straight or they will not work right.
You know, that is a darn good point.. overlooked a bit I bet. Easy to knock them out of alignment, and out of aligment in the rear will play hell with this type of locker, makes them want to unlock going straight.
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make sure the axle housing it still straight or they will not work right.
You know, that is a darn good point.. overlooked a bit I bet. Easy to knock them out of alignment, and out of aligment in the rear will play hell with this type of locker, makes them want to unlock going straight.
  Yeah, but at least with a lockrite, you can usually tell (I've read) because it will click when going straight instead of just when turning.ÂÂ
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make sure the axle housing it still straight or they will not work right.
You know, that is a darn good point.. overlooked a bit I bet. Easy to knock them out of alignment, and out of aligment in the rear will play hell with this type of locker, makes them want to unlock going straight.
Yeah, but at least with a lockrite, you can usually tell (I've read) because it will click when going straight instead of just when turning.
They will Snap and pop really loud when the housing is bent. (like you will think the locker is dead. ) If you truss a sami axle you need to be carefull with the heat as you can warp them easy. Been there done that with a friends rig. They are a good low cost locker, but they do have problems. I will not run them again as I like to drive my rigs on the road and not have to worry about it.