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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: LilRed on January 23, 2005, 09:46:24 AM

Title: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: LilRed on January 23, 2005, 09:46:24 AM
     Is there a gear reduction for a Sidekick?  Need advice!  My '92 Sidekick with locker in the rear seems like it has enough traction with a rear locker but not enough torque to pull the weight up some hills.  And that's only with 235 tires.  I want to go up to 31" eventually.  Its an automatic so that probably doesn't help.  Been in mud sometimes when there just wasn't enough power to spin the wheels enough to clean em out.  I've got a 2" inch exhaust with no cat and turbo muffler and I think I need a header to balance that out.  Would that help too?  
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: kerrywittig on January 23, 2005, 11:15:01 AM
With auto the gears are 4:625

You could install 5:625 gears in the axles and then sell the 4:625's

I just so happen to have a front and rear set of Tracker 5:625 third members if your interested

Contact directly if you are interested

Kerry Wittig/SOS
1468A Coddington Road
Brooktondale, New York
14817
Tel# 607-274-SLOW (7569)
Cell 607-227-1244
Email 16ltoy|removethispart|@msn.com
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 11:38:39 AM
Or find some 5.12's from any manual sidekick and install them in place of your 4.62's.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: LilRed on January 23, 2005, 11:45:42 AM
   Are all manual Sidekicks 5.12s?  If I'm going to change them out, I might as well go as low as I can.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: trialspro on January 23, 2005, 12:01:38 PM
i think all manuals, 89-98 are 5.12 or 5.13s... plus those 4.62's can get a decent price from sami guys, 5.13s are a bit too much of a sacrifice on the highway for most, but on a trackick it would be awesome with those tires
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: SnoFalls on January 23, 2005, 12:07:47 PM
I just got done with my 4.62 -> 5.12 change in my trac. (an automatic running 31's). Test run today on the hwy climbing a fairly steep hill had a top speed of 65, and I'm happy with that ...
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: kerrywittig on January 23, 2005, 12:16:32 PM
Quote
  Are all manual Sidekicks 5.12s?  If I'm going to change them out, I might as well go as low as I can.


No they are not.... Some 4 door manuals are 5:625
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: kerrywittig on January 23, 2005, 12:19:20 PM
Quote
i think all manuals, 89-98 are 5.12 or 5.13s

One and the same actual ratio is 5:125
5:12 & 5:13 are just rounding it off
Ring gear 41 teeth
Pinion 8 teeth
41 divided by 8 = 5:125............My 2 cents
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: tracker954x4 on January 23, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
I just swapped my auto over to 5.12's after blowing up my front diff with 31's. made a world of difference onthe road, still haven,t gotten a chance to test offroad other than in my back yard.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 12:28:25 PM
Repost:

Trackick:

4.30- Ca model 16v 2 door auto
4.62- 2 door auto and 91 only 4 door 8v
5.12- all 1.6 5 speed 2 doors and all 4 doors, auto and manual, except 91 8v 4 doors
5.38- 91 8v 5 speed 4 door only
5.62- 89 1.3 5 speed only

Sammy
3.73- all swb  
3.90- all lwb, including pickups

Trackers/Vitaras/Grand Vitaras
4.10- all 5 speeds
4.88- all autos

XL-7
5.12- manual and auto


My only extra input to this is that most if not all 3 speed auto trucks came with 4.62's. If you have a 4 Speed (with overdrive) you have 5.12's.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: kerrywittig on January 23, 2005, 12:31:42 PM
OK....I've learned not to question here*

* denotes humor

I got the 5:625'S out of a 92/93 4 door that as far as I knew was stock...must have been modified,,,,,,,me bad
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 12:32:47 PM
Quote
Or find some 5.12's from any manual sidekick and install them in place of your 4.62's.



I'll rephrase this.

Or find some 5.12's from any NORMAL manual sidekick  ;) and install them in place of your 4.62's.

LOL.

the 1.3L in 89, and the 8 valve 4 door 5 speed don't count as NORMAL.

;D
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 12:34:25 PM
Quote
OK....I've learned not to question here*

* denotes humor

I got the 5:625'S out of a 92/93 4 door that as far as I knew was stock...must have been modified,,,,,,,me bad



You know, sometimes I think they guys at the suzuki plant were just screwing off sometimes.

I guess it wouldn't surprise me to learn something new. Let's just say that's not NORMAL.. (referring to above post)..  ;D
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: trialspro on January 23, 2005, 12:34:46 PM
5.62- 89 1.3 5 speed only
is that a typo? or just a very rare or foreign version of a trackick... or maybe a sami
either way, i figure those gears would be worth a fair bit
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 12:36:01 PM
Quote
5.62- 89 1.3 5 speed only
is that a typo? or just a very rare or foreign version of a trackick... or maybe a sami
either way, i figure those gears would be worth a fair bit



Nope, not a typo, just a VERY early production 89 is my guess.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: trialspro on January 23, 2005, 12:36:16 PM
hahaha just as i posted you posted 2 replys, ill try and post faster next time
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 12:37:29 PM
Aww can't you see I'm trying to reach 1000 posts sometime soon??

LOL
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Bigzook on January 23, 2005, 12:58:36 PM
"5.12- all 1.6 5 speed 2 doors and all 4 doors, auto and manual, except 91 8v 4 doors"
 I am trying to get this statment. Are you saying that all 4 doors came with 5.12's no matter what tranny? I am not doubting you I am new to kick stuff. I have 2 sets of gears from 4 doors and I THOUGHT they were 4.62's as they are from auto's. They were bolth 16 valve motors. Not sure what years.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 23, 2005, 01:12:10 PM
Quote
"5.12- all 1.6 5 speed 2 doors and all 4 doors, auto and manual, except 91 8v 4 doors"
 I am trying to get this statment. Are you saying that all 4 doors came with 5.12's no matter what tranny? I am not doubting you I am new to kick stuff. I have 2 sets of gears from 4 doors and I THOUGHT they were 4.62's as they are from auto's. They were bolth 16 valve motors. Not sure what years.


Are they from 3 speed autos or 4 speed autos?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Bigzook on January 23, 2005, 04:53:14 PM
uh....ill tellya tomarrow
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: LilRed on January 26, 2005, 04:43:00 AM
Is there a transfer case reduction for the Kick like the GRS1 for the Samurai?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: ksa421 on January 26, 2005, 05:28:52 AM
Yeah check out Trail Tough's website they just came out with a 4:1 kit for the Kick. They do really good work.




Jacob
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: mrfuelish on January 26, 2005, 06:03:56 AM
Your high range I think stays at a one to one ratio.
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Zukipilot on January 26, 2005, 06:14:09 AM
Yea the 4:1 Kits only lower Low range, The High Range remains the same. You will have to do a Axle reduction or a dual case set up to reduce High range.

Zig
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on January 26, 2005, 06:39:03 AM
Thats one nice think about the trackicks. The 4 to 1 lies dormant while at freeway speeds (2wd). Less chance of potential problems. Ive been running the original Calmini set for several years now with no problems.

Mike
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: ed oorklep on January 26, 2005, 08:37:45 AM
Quote
Yea the 4:1 Kits only lower Low range, The High Range remains the same. You will have to do a Axle reduction or a dual case set up to reduce High range.

Zig


OR you fit a 2wd gear box with a sammy/SJ transfer case behind it. I think I'll go that route because the Calmini R&P set will cost me a fortune over here and I know someone who has several 2wd gear boxes in stock.... This would lower the high range too 8)
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: mesjr2004 on January 26, 2005, 09:42:08 AM
ed wrote
OR you fit a 2wd gear box with a sammy/SJ transfer
case behind it. I think I'll go that route because the Calmini R&P set will cost me a fortune over here and I know someone who has several 2wd gear boxes in stock.... This would lower the high range too  

thats what im dooing on my other track,only using samy trans ,i think i may have gone too low with gearing, are 5.71s gona kill my highway speeds with 4to1 t/case gears?
annyone?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: 1bigtracker on January 26, 2005, 09:51:46 AM
Quote

thats what im dooing on my other track,only using samy trans ,i think i may have gone too low with gearing, are 5.71s gona kill my highway speeds with 4to1 t/case gears?
annyone?

tire size?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: mesjr2004 on January 26, 2005, 10:03:51 AM
35'',sorry,thats kinda need to know info
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: 1bigtracker on January 26, 2005, 10:10:08 AM
i know thats too low.  i would think axle gears should be in the mid 4's      but thats just a guess from a tracker guy. ;D

stu
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: cj on January 26, 2005, 10:10:08 AM
Quote

thats what im dooing on my other track,only using samy trans ,i think i may have gone too low with gearing, are 5.71s gona kill my highway speeds with 4to1 t/case gears?
annyone?


5.71's and a Sammi t-case with 4:1 gears and 35's = high rpm and low speed in high range
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: szabotage on January 26, 2005, 10:17:18 AM
just something to keep in mind, the higher the gear ratio in your diff, the weaker the ring gear will be,

I ran 5.13 kick fronts in my sammi with a locker in the rear and only got 500k before grenading the ring gear. and only got like 2 trail runs in.

now I run the 5.13's from the rear and seem to be running good. but I wouldn't trust it to any higher ratio unless I upgrade to toy axles
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: mesjr2004 on January 26, 2005, 10:51:31 AM
im running toy axles,
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: ed oorklep on January 27, 2005, 09:56:49 AM
Okay, but for once (I couldn't find it in the search), explain to me how I'd calculate the needed/ accomplished gear ratio's. Whith a formula or something. Does anyone have such thing? Maybe even the stock ratio'a of all 5 gears in a sidekick/tracker/(european) Vitara thing. And as 3rd question the ratio'a of the 4.10/4.16/4.13/samurai transfer cases?
I know it's a lot questions but I really wanna know because of my probable set-up.....  :-/
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: zooky on January 27, 2005, 10:33:04 AM
Quote
I ran 5.13 kick fronts in my sammi with a locker in the rear and only got 500k before grenading the ring gear. and only got like 2 trail runs in.

if you got 500k with that set-up I wouldnt complain about grenading the ring gear
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: wildgoody on January 27, 2005, 11:45:56 AM
That's like about 300-350 miles
not too good
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: szabotage on January 27, 2005, 01:01:09 PM
lol, yup I think I was halfway through my second tank of gas from the time I got them installed that the ring gear decided to grenade ;D

500 kliks, not 500,000 ;)
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: wildgoody on January 27, 2005, 03:26:18 PM
I would say that you didn't set up the diff
right, that's about the only way to destroy
a R and P set, even set up poorly you should
get several thousand miles before failure.

Of coarse I wasn't there to see the setup
so I shouldn't comment on it being right
or wrong, this is just an experience baised
statement, I nuked a set of R and P in an
Audi I had, that one required shims to set
up, and the |removethispart|@$$ wipes at the machine shop
screwed up the thickness I requested, I put
it together anyway and it lived 5 or 6 months

I never saw the nuked set, but it began to whine,
louder and louder day by day, until one day it
went in grand style, chunk bang clunk vroom
free reving engine   :o  nuked gear set

Wild
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Natebert on January 30, 2005, 03:24:22 AM
Quote


I never saw the nuked set, but it began to whine,
louder and louder day by day, until one day it
went in grand style, chunk bang clunk vroom
free reving engine   :o  nuked gear set

Wild


I'd say that this is how most R & P sets go bye, bye.

~Nate

(at least thats how 2 of ours went)
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Baloo on January 31, 2005, 05:21:36 AM
 ???So is anyone running dual cases in a Sidetrack? It seems easy enough to add a Sammy case after the stock case. Might be a bit long for a two door but a 4door would be ok. Drive angles would be funky but a cv may be a cure. Any info here?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Natebert on January 31, 2005, 05:27:39 AM
Yup.
Works great.
vvvvv from OTT's website vvvv
(http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker%20three%20cutout.jpg)
vvvvv from our work bench vvvv
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/OTTstuff/DCP_5366.jpg)
Sticks inside cab;
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/SASdone/DCP_5402.jpg)
From underneath;
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/SASdone/DCP_5418.jpg)
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on January 31, 2005, 05:28:37 AM
Quote
???So is anyone running dual cases in a Sidetrack? It seems easy enough to add a Sammy case after the stock case. Might be a bit long for a two door but a 4door would be ok. Drive angles would be funky but a cv may be a cure. Any info here?


Yup.

http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker3.htm

(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/DCP_5370.jpg)

(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/DCP_5401.jpg)
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Natebert on January 31, 2005, 05:36:22 AM
Quote
???So is anyone running dual cases in a Sidetrack? It seems easy enough to add a Sammy case after the stock case. Might be a bit long for a two door but a 4door would be ok. Drive angles would be funky but a cv may be a cure. Any info here?


Shouldn't be to long for a 2door.  They are made for 2dr sammies.

~Nate
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: phoenix827 on January 31, 2005, 09:06:34 PM
Now do you keep hi and lo range in BOTH cases? I thought I saw in one of the links to another page that one case was locked in lo. ??? If I am understanding this right, this would give you street gears in hi-hi, and rock gears in lo-lo with bigger tires. am I right?
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Zukipilot on January 31, 2005, 09:28:09 PM
You should be able to run Hi or low in the ftont case, than 2hi, 4hi , 4low in the rear case giving you many combinations of gearing 2 and 4wd.

Zig
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: hcgalvin on February 01, 2005, 12:35:34 AM
Yep.

Lots of gear combinations.

Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: phoenix827 on February 01, 2005, 10:41:17 AM
ok, now how does this compare to a 4.1 or 6.1 tcase?
Aside from the extra gears you get, Which would be better for stock gearing, (axle) and say 33-34" tires on the street?
What about the trail?
Got a rough idea for cost for dual cases?
Am I asking enough questions? ;D
Title: Re: Gear reduction for Kick?
Post by: Natebert on February 01, 2005, 01:26:45 PM
Quote
ok, now how does this compare to a 4.1 or 6.1 tcase?
Aside from the extra gears you get, Which would be better for stock gearing, (axle) and say 33-34" tires on the street?
What about the trail?
Got a rough idea for cost for dual cases?
Am I asking enough questions? ;D


We have a 4.24:1 in one of the cases, the sidekick case.
This is great for the slow, crawly stuff.

We have stock Sammy gears, ~2.2:1 in the Sammy case, for regular like 4wd low.  (like most of the rest of the planet)

But combine them together (4wd low + 4wd low) and put the tranny in 1st gear and it will climb nearly anything at idle.  (overall crawl ratio is ~180:1, when stock sidekick is ~34:1)

Overall I'd say that by just doing the dual t-cases in a sidekick (Sammy +Kick cases) you wouldn't need diff gears and would be easily able to handle 33s on the street without issue.  (the Sammy has a reduction in high)

OTT Kicker 3 = ~$600 US.  (Send them a Sidekick t-case to modify)
Sammy T-case = ~$150 US.  (Average price from a junkyard)

Added together it's cheaper then a set of 4.24:1 gears alone.

But you may have to add the costs for custom drive lines, custom cross members, custom body work, etc.  (Which you can do yourself) to accomodate the additional t-case, shifter and moved output shafts.


~Nate