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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mudfkr on January 21, 2005, 11:48:26 AM

Title: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 21, 2005, 11:48:26 AM
Air actuator pix's for Whitfield.
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/air diff 001.jpg)
The air diaphram bolts to the bearing carrier cap.

(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/air diff 002.jpg)

(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/air diff 003.jpg)

(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/air diff 004.jpg)


Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: kerrywittig on January 21, 2005, 11:55:56 AM
Now this just engages the front diff? Or does it "lock" the diff? aka air locker.
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 21, 2005, 12:03:50 PM
Just engages it,
It's pity  they should have incorporated a locker in the design as well. ;D  
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: HotRod on January 21, 2005, 12:11:21 PM
I have  a spare one   ;D
Somebody need one?  ;)
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: whitfield on January 21, 2005, 12:34:16 PM
Ugly,  Thats is almost ugly enough to be a Chevrolet or Jeep product.   Yuck!

But if that is a factory air line running into the diff how bad would it be to fab up an Air locker?  Even if it is vacuum operated...

I see untapped potential
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 21, 2005, 12:39:54 PM
Quote

if that is a factory air line running into the diff how bad would it be to fab up an Air locker?  Even if it is vacuum operated...

I see untapped potential


I was thinking the same thing, some welding
and fabrication and it might just become an
air locker
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: 97TRAKIN on January 21, 2005, 12:41:23 PM
Quote
 Even if it is vacuum operated...

I thought it was pressure operated via the onboard air pump (small pump)!?

Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: chet on January 21, 2005, 01:05:12 PM
it looks like you could weld the spiders and at least disengage it from the driveshaft. the axles would still be connected though. not much help.
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 21, 2005, 01:24:12 PM
Ya, probably be a total lockup or none,
but on the other hand, it would be free
wheeling the front when disengaged, even
with the 4WD lever in 4 Low  ;)
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 21, 2005, 01:33:32 PM
Quote
Ya, probably be a total lockup or none,
but on the other hand, it would be free
wheeling the front when disengaged, even
with the 4WD lever in 4 Low  ;)


Yeah, thats about all the potential I can see for it as well.
For some one that just crawls with the front welded it would probably be a bonus to unlock front drive for tight turns and be able to still stay in low but thats about it.

For me it's of no use really, probably just end up in the bin.  
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 21, 2005, 05:12:17 PM
Too bad you are Down Under,
I'd like to have a look at what
could be done with it, some parts
engineering and it might have Air
Locker abilities
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 22, 2005, 02:33:31 AM
Quote
 I thought it was pressure operated via the onboard air pump (small pump)!?



It is, I have this arrangement on mine now I have the V6 steel front axle. You can still run manual hubs as well as a back up in case you break something and for highway use. The nice thing is that with the pump wired to the 4wd shift it engages and disengages the front diff automatically
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 22, 2005, 05:35:02 AM
What set up have you got for your axles and C/V's, V6 ones or stock ?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: 97TRAKIN on January 22, 2005, 02:21:33 PM
I was thinking of running an ON/OFF switch on the positive wire that runs to the air pump that locks the front axle in when in 4wd. That way I could turn off the pump in 4Low and it will disengage the front effectivly giving me 2Low ;D. Almost like unlocking the hubs while in 4Low but being able to do it from inside the truck.  
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 23, 2005, 04:45:31 AM
I have the steel V6 axle with the 5:83 fitted in the GV carrier. Driveshafts are the original 26 spline Track/Kick shafts.
I don't know about the 2wd idea, I thought about it but as I didn't rebuild the diff I don't know whether it could cause some damage driving the diff when its not engaged - what dom you reckon Mudfkr? Would be a nice simple way of achieving 2wd low on a Track/Kick. I think the ECU would probably get upset on a GV.
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: lil_Truck on January 23, 2005, 11:00:44 AM
So, is this used instead of locking hubs?  Suzuki's answer to 4wd on the fly?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: 97TRAKIN on January 23, 2005, 11:46:27 AM
Quote
So, is this used instead of locking hubs?  Suzuki's answer to 4wd on the fly?


Yep. ;D
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: 97TRAKIN on January 23, 2005, 11:52:40 AM
Quote
I have the steel V6 axle with the 5:83 fitted in the GV carrier. Driveshafts are the original 26 spline Track/Kick shafts.
I don't know about the 2wd idea, I thought about it but as I didn't rebuild the diff I don't know whether it could cause some damage driving the diff when its not engaged - what dom you reckon Mudfkr? Would be a nice simple way of achieving 2wd low on a Track/Kick. I think the ECU would probably get upset on a GV.


I did it before on a full size Chevy and on a Jeep Wrangler it worked like a charm. I don't think the ECU sences resistance so It won't even know that you turned off the air pump. Another way to do it would be to put a small electric air purge valve in the air pressure line. That way you can just vent it instead of messing with the wiring.  
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 23, 2005, 03:55:38 PM
Quote
I have the steel V6 axle with the 5:83 fitted in the GV carrier. Driveshafts are the original 26 spline Track/Kick shafts.
I don't know about the 2wd idea, I thought about it but as I didn't rebuild the diff I don't know whether it could cause some damage driving the diff when its not engaged - what do you reckon Mudfkr? Would be a nice simple way of achieving 2wd low on a Track/Kick. I think the ECU would probably get upset on a GV.


I just went out and had a good look at it and  I can't  see why you couldn't use it as a 2low system as there's nothing really to fudge in it unless you were to accidentally activated it while driving.

I dunno about the ECU side, but I don't imagine that the ECU would register no voltage at the pump ?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 23, 2005, 04:00:13 PM
Rhino,

I forgot to ask was your trucklet fitted with the air actuator from new or did it come with the G/V axle ?

Reason I ask is if it was a normal 26 spline "open" diff you would of needed a new inner drivers (our drivers  ;)) C/V for the air actuator set up ,correct ?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 23, 2005, 11:13:33 PM
I have the entire  front axle from the V6 with just the R
&P changed, Inner shaft is V6 (air actuated)

I suspect the GV ECU will measure the current going to the pump to verify that the pump has actuated. The Jimny does this.

This is one of Suzukis answers to 'shift on the fly' the Jimny has vacuum (I believe, maybe air) actuated FWHs
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: blacknight on January 24, 2005, 03:22:53 AM
Quote

I suspect the GV ECU will measure the current going to the pump to verify that the pump has actuated. The Jimny does this.


It works off pressure build-up

George
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: blacknight on January 24, 2005, 05:13:27 AM
With all this talk about the spline #ers you guys wouldn't how much longer the GV vs the kicker shafts are??? (not the splined ends but the mid. part of the shaft) Im looking at Kerry's Toro cv set-up but a would need to know much longer  the shifts inbetween the cv's  would need to be. If I get this info he may be willing to make a set for me.
George  
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 24, 2005, 05:29:03 AM
Quote

It works off pressure build-up

George


Is there a pressure sensor in the air line?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 25, 2005, 07:07:30 PM
Quote
With all this talk about the spline #ers you guys wouldn't how much longer the GV vs the kicker shafts are??? (not the splined ends but the mid. part of the shaft) Im looking at Kerry's Toro cv set-up but a would need to know much longer  the shifts inbetween the cv's  would need to be. If I get this info he may be willing to make a set for me.
George  


George,
I've measured the difference of the G/V vs the Escudo (which should be the same as a trackick).
The G/V left is 40mm longer than the Escudo and the G/V right is 18mm longer than the Escudo. Remember as well that the axle splines are different so you'll have to work that out with Kerry too.

I measure the axle shaft with the outer C/V on it but removed the inner C/V because it would not give an accurate measurement with the slip in it. I put the shaft in my lathe between centers and used the tail stock to measure the difference it so it should be fairly accurate  ;)

*Side note for trackick owners*
I found the G/V right is 12mm (1/2") longer than the Escudo left so if I put a left hand inner (3 bolt type) C/V on it and use them with the anvil (when it arrives :-[) it should give me a small upgrade as they are slightly bigger diameter shaft;)  . Any body think that 12mm longer shaft will have any negative affect ?
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 26, 2005, 02:23:47 AM
I don't quite see how the GV right is 12mm  ( 7/16")
longer than the Escudo left ???

The right shaft is a stubby thing (not a beer ;) )
and the left Track/Kick/Vit/Escudo is much longer,
or do you have a Factory Centered Diff  :D

Also if the spline is the same size, you won't
get much if any upgrade from the axle shaft
swap, the spline is what really counts, and
where most axles break. As far as teh 12mm
being a problem, the farther out the CV the
sharper the angle of the CV shaft, I think it
would depend on the angle you have now
and how much it changes with the new shaft

Wild
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 26, 2005, 03:04:08 AM
Quote
I don't quite see how the GV right is 12mm  ( 7/16")
longer than the Escudo left ???

Wild



Me neither, but thats not what he said  :P :P
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 26, 2005, 03:07:24 AM
Well, I read and didn't understand it.
What did he say/mean ???

Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: mudfkr on January 26, 2005, 04:40:07 AM
Quote
Well, I read and didn't understand it.
What did he say/mean ???



Yes you read it right,  the G/V right is 12mm or 1/2" (Not 7/16 Wild  ;))longer than the escudo left

It would be a slight up grade for several reasons like where the spline ends it not stepped down a bit like the Escudo so that would eliminate one potential weak spot which is were it generally wants to brake. The spline is slightly larger and much finer than the Escudo

 (http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/cv 032.jpg)
G/V right (at the rear) vs Escudo left.
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 26, 2005, 05:58:00 AM
Hmm  well the finer splines, if they fit good
into the sidegears could be stronger, but I
wonder if larger splines in a looser situation
might be better ?

BTW
I use my 1/2" an 13MM  wrenches interchagably
but a 12mm is too loose on a 7/16" nut/bolt ???

So size it as you will, I just can't use my 12mm
for a 7/16" bolt head but I can use a 13mm on
a 1/2"    ;)

And for Rhinoman   :P
I did read it right
;)
Wild
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: Rhinoman on January 26, 2005, 06:42:08 AM
Quote
And for Rhinoman   :P
I did read it right
;)
Wild


Ooops so you did  :-[. I was reading:
"The G/V left is 40mm longer than the Escudo and the G/V right is 18mm longer"
If the shaft is longer then the CV would be further into its housing and the angle would be better, that got my attention.
I stripped the left hand and right hand Track/Kick/Vit shafts that I had here to see if I could build a longer shaft by mixing and matching but the shaft part was the same length. When I got the guy in the breakers to compare GV and Track/Kick shafts for me he reckoned they were all the same. He obviously didn't look too closely  :( Of course he wasn't going to strip any down and clean them up to do ::)
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: blacknight on January 26, 2005, 11:53:26 AM
Quote

BTW
I use my 1/2" an 13MM  wrenches interchagably
but a 12mm is too loose on a 7/16" nut/bolt ???

So size it as you will, I just can't use my 12mm
for a 7/16" bolt head but I can use a 13mm on
a 1/2"    ;)

And for Rhinoman   :P
I did read it right
;)
Wild


25.4 mm = 1 inch so 12/25.4= 0.47244094488188976377952755905512in

I let you do the rest of the math to get a faction  ::)
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: wildgoody on January 26, 2005, 01:19:22 PM
The unit of measure was 16ths
not 12ths, now assuming that
25.4mm = 1"  which I think is
correct  1/16" = 1.5875 mm
7 * 1.5875 = 11.1125
So then 8/16" or 1/2" =12.7mm

That would be why I can use a 13mm
wrench on a 1/2" bolt but a 12mm is
too loose on a 7/16" bolt  
;)

But it would be so much easier if we
just all used metric units instead of
this horrid mix of sizes

Wild
Title: Re: G/V air actuated diff pix.
Post by: blacknight on January 26, 2005, 11:16:58 PM
Quote


But it would be so much easier if we
just all used metric units instead of
this horrid mix of sizes

Wild

I hear you on that!
George