ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Bobzooki on January 07, 2005, 03:28:23 AM
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Imagine this: Make a unit like a Calmini Anvil, BUT - make it for Ford 9 inch 3rd member, CENTER it, use only the very shortest inner shafts possible, and use front CV axles from an IFS full-sized pickup truck.
Longer axles = better CV angles.
Truck CV axles = stronger.
Ford 9" = strong, and lots of options.
Do the same thing in the rear, and put disk brakes on it. Spidertrax has a Spider 9 axle - well they TALK about it! http://www.spidertrax.com/chassis.htm
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930 cvs and sway away axles have better travel and have been proven in baja for years plus they are avail in any length.
But it could be done with either using micro stubs from Kar Tech. Wild and I talked about this once still may look closer.
Thanks
Wayne
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you can buy housing out of Jegs that are sheet metal and look really cool. i think that would be rthe easyest housing to use. i have been thinking about a 9in center mounted but a saw Mike has a friend that has already done it. but i don't have much lift nor will i ever so i just wrote it off.
stu
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Sammy rear, cheap, easy to weld, seals are right already, has the right gear ratios for the rear, easy to cut pucks and use hardened axle shaft stock to make an alignment jig. then flange the axles to fit 930s and the rest can be pruchased from the sandrail off road guys. I bet you could get 40* out of 930s and you use the splined axles for the slip istead of the cup. Just internet engineering for now but why not you tell me.
Thanks
Wayne
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I like the idea ... if I dunstand properly (not solid swap up front, but a beefier IFS).
Not furd tho ... maybe a cheky 1/2 ton pickup donor (IFS model but part time 4wd). Perhaps even keeping the torsions (or not).
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I like the Idea ;D
Now some one build it ;D
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I like the idea ... if I dunstand properly (not solid swap up front, but a beefier IFS).
Not furd tho ... maybe a cheky 1/2 ton pickup donor (IFS model but part time 4wd). Perhaps even keeping the torsions (or not).
Furd 9" > Chebby 1/2 ton shit.
That's something I've been wondering about... only with the TTB D44 from the front of my bronco. Just some cutting and it'd be ready to use as an IFS centered diff.
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Lms is hard at work right now on a new front end for the Real Red Wagon (the last ones in 3 pieces ;D) we've got a tracker rear that we will be seting up to run just as the aluminum front does now, however it will be flanged on both sides and feature '01 and up style chevy 2500 cv's. We think we've got the right ones now. Our front track will be wider prob. by 2-3" and will have our still as untested A arms so the 2500's cups will fit. the axle will also be mounted somewhat differently to better distribute the forces applyed to it.
the front axle is by far the weakest link on the rig so were going to take our time and play around with some other ideas as well but right now I'm pretty sure this is how it's going to be. I just recently got a daily driver so I can take my time on this one and get as crazy as I want ;D
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/motherlode lift kit 007.jpg)
No Pumkin :'( :'( :'(
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Can some elaborate more on the 930 cv's and shaft? I'm drawing a blanc on them?
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Ok, found them.
(http://web.ivenue.com/desertdesignfabrication/images/039303.jpg)
930 CV Joint
High Angle Porsche 930 CV joint. Perfect for any high performance off-road application.
Our Price: $55.00
These CV's are used on Dune buggy with a rear powertrain. Like out of a VW bug. Unlike our CV's where the inside CV bearings slide back and forth. These CV's slide on the alix shaft spline.
So unlike ours when the CV bearings slide to the end of the CV where it's the weakest, these have no weaker points.
Also you will get a greater angle out of the axils.
I'll have to think on this...
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I listed some details about the CVs on
the Track/Kicks in a post several months
ago, the inner CV on the Track/Kick has a
max angle of 25* mainly I think because
of the cup, but the outer is built like the
930 CV you see in the post above, with
a few differences, like it's assembled into
a stub axle, but it also has a 40* drive angle
like the 930 CV does.
Best option would be to have a slip shaft,
but not slipping thru the CV (where is it going to go?)
there isn't any movement room on a Track/Kick
front axle for it to go into.
But strong these are, I only have heard of
a few guys blowing out he outter CVs on the Zuks
Wild
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my brother runs 930 CV's n his dunebuggie he hase a 3 vw bus tranny and a dinoed 450hp 302 bored .30 over, with afr head, 785 cfm carb, 36" swamper irocs. and can run 9.8 in a quater. he has never broken one of these CV's
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my brother runs 930 CV's n his dunebuggie he hase a 3 vw bus tranny and a dinoed 450hp 302 bored .30 over, with afr head, 785 cfm carb, 36" swamper irocs. and can run 9.8 in a quater. he has never broken one of these CV's
Well yeah, the CVs are going striaght. Most of the zuk cvs break under turning and power application and they snap like tooth pics or that crappy aluminum thing explodes...
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i have some picks of the buggy rock crawling/jumping i'll try to find them and post.
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kerrywittig, put me down for one complete system with tora axles. im gettin excited here and i cant wait. also can i be first in-line. could you give us some estimates on price ranges for this. thanks for your hard work and keep it up.
shane
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" Well yeah, the CVs are going striaght. Most of the zuk cvs break under turning and power application and they snap like tooth pics or that crappy aluminum thing explodes..."
If you ever seen a IRS axil in a buggy you wouldn't be making this statment. Buggys have their rear control arms cranked for clearance also. So for the rear CV's is would be like driving with the front wheels turned to the max all the time.
Can you tell I'm an old buggy man my self?
The only time the axil is straight would be after a jump and at full down travel.
Now if someone came up with a set up to run them I would really look into them. I may even have to come up with something my self.
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You should know better than making a statement like that. I sounds like what people say about my tracker before they truely see it in action.
RIDICULOUS! Is doing what were doing with these vehicles!! They were NEVER made to do what they are able to do.
I've out wheeled a lot of trucks with my little buggy. BIG BIG rocks is where I have trouble. But on the trail I can go around them.
You can't tell me a 200-300hp buggy jumping about 10ft in the air under full throdal and landing a hard packed dirt, completly cycaling the rear suspention doesn't put a lot of stress on these CV, Well...
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Alright bobzookie quit puttin Ford parts in our Zuks. Just kidding, what about the rear CV's in an 04+ Exploder.
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Alright bobzookie quit puttin Ford parts in our Zuks.  Just kidding, what about the rear CV's in an 04+ Exploder. ÂÂ
Well, I can't take full credit for that!  I do believe that's what Eric Bewley is running in the rear of his Track/Kick, and Spidertrax says:
The Spidertrax Spider 9 Axle utilizes a 9" third member with chromoly axle shaft options up to 40 spline! What makes the 9" third member so versatile is the almost endless configuration options such as steel or aluminum third members, R&P gear rations as low as 6.5, and just about any type of locker imaginable. This axle has an octagonal center similar in design to our Sidewinder Axles and still keeps a weight far below Dana 44's. It has more ground clearance then any 9" axle design on the market. The Spider 9 uses 3" x 1/4" wall axle tubes and has box construction trussing for added strength.
Now take that thinking to the front of our IFS rigs, and center it, so the CV axles are as long as possible, and the door of possibilities just opens up.
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Well, I can't take full credit for that! I do believe that's what Eric Bewley is running in the rear of his Track/Kick, and
Erics running stock rear, your thinkin of me.
:)
Mike
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My freind Stan has a nine in the front centered with 37s on it... it wont fit without a completely new crossmember and MUCH modification. It was a PITA but it does work. No vendor will ever buid this. :'( If you make it to Moab you can take a peek at it. ;D
Mike
BTW whats wrong with the Anvil you already have?
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What does Eric have in the rear of that thing anyway?
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What does Eric have in the rear of that thing anyway?
Stock Kick Axle I think.
Zig
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Yea, the Anvil is bad ass, and with the GV or XL7 steel 3rd your not going to have much problems with it. The Next step is to get redily available half shafts to hold up to the anvils strength.
Any one with a heavy right foot will have a tough time tearing up an anvil w/ steel 3rd set up. I have been more than pleased with mine now that I have stronger half shafts 8).
Zig
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Doesn't anyone think that a bolt in front housing that is much stronger, on the shelf autozone parts and utilizes easy to find and cheap parts is better than making new x members, new mounts, new one off axles and CV's, cutting, welding, and machining...
Hey, Kerry, I'm with you on THAT part. My Anvil is awesome! BUT...
If I want to get some longer front CV axles, for decreased CV angle, I have to make that center part narrower. That means moving the diff closer to center - well if you start that train of thought, you might as well take it all the way to a centered diff, and the shortest inner stub axles you can, and then the strongest CV axles that seem reasonable. Well, heck, what's the diff solution that offers the most options, the most availability, and the best pricing? I'm thinking it might be the 9 inch.
OK, I already have a GV steel carrier, 5.83's, and ARB's in my Anvil - why mess with what I have? Because some day, I might find out that the weak link is still my CV's... Hey, I haven't broken anything yet - maybe I'll never need Odin's Anvil. Just some blue-sky thinking...
But wait a minute - aren't you working on some kind of Neutronium and Unobtanium CV shafts, that'll work with my Anvil, and never, ever break? What's the status on those?
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Erics running stock rear, your thinkin of me.
Oh yeah - it was you that had the problems on Poison Spider last year - ah, you know, you rock stars all look alike... ::) ;D
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you know, you rock stars all look alike...  ::) ;D
;D
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We we were IFS, we never broke a CV, but we did go through R&P's and housings. (separately)
~Nate
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Just a heads up, just to fit a stock diff centered you need to lift the motor 5 inches just to clear the oil pan. My hood got in the way so I raised it 3 inches and cut the frame and dropped it 1.5 inches... then got a shoehorn... ::) ...and its still close. My point is, its definately possible but most likely as a one off only.
Mike
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 My Anvil is awesome!  BUT...
If I want to get some longer front CV axles, for decreased CV angle, I have to make that center part narrower.  That means moving the diff closer to center - well if you start that train of thought, you might as well take it all the way to a centered diff, and the shortest inner stub axles you can, and then the strongest CV axles that seem reasonable.  Well, heck, what's the diff solution that offers the most options, the most availability, and the best pricing?  I'm thinking it might be the 9 inch.
Is the 9" available in a Centered IFS application or is this a custom unit. I've always liked the sound of using a Jaguar Dana 44 rear IRS section.
I like the Anvil, but with out shafts I'm back to square one. 4 wheeling season is coming soon
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Is the 9" available in a Centered IFS application or is this a custom unit. ÂÂ
i'm a Ford guy and i've never seen one in a production car. but let me wake up an if i think of anything, i'll be back.
stu
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No this was a custom unit. Ford Thunderbird made a centered 8.8 rear though. Aluminum too. I doubt that low enough gears are availible though.
Mike
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I like the Anvil, but with out shafts I'm back to square one.  4 wheeling season is coming soon
So get some shafts - what's the big deal? If THAT's all that's holding you back, I say DO IT!
The Anvil ROCKS!
You can SORT OF see my Anvil, above my belly armor, in this shot!
(http://img70.exs.cx/img70/3523/bellyarmor8ah.jpg)
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So get some shafts - what's the big deal?  If THAT's all that's holding you back, I say DO IT!
Last check, The only better shafts I know of are:
1. Stock 26 spline
2. Hybrid DIYS (Toyota / Nissan / Ford)
3. Unobtanium (stuff that has yet to hit the market)
The NAPA or other distributor life time warranty 26 spline units are sounding good.
If their are others, Please get me up to speed.
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Last check, The only better shafts I know of are:
1. Stock 26 spline
2. Hybrid DIYS  (Toyota / Nissan / Ford)
3. Unobtanium (stuff that has yet to hit the market)
The NAPA or other distributor life time warranty 26 spline units are sounding good.
If their are others, Please get me up to speed.
OK, first: You need a 26 spline long inner shaft. I got mine from Hawk Strictly Suzuki 1-888-SAMURAI - they have anything you could want.
Next: You need a driver's side outer shaft, for the passenger side (it's got 3 bolts, that join it to the inner short axle that comes with the Anvil).
Because of this, you need only carry driver's side outer shafts for spares, AND, Kerry Wittig is in the process of producing the Unobtnium and Neutronium outer shafts - they should be available in March.
What else? You can go to Warn Premium Hubs - and HUB FUSES. If you do, also convert to Spidertrax Super Hub Bolts http://www.spidertrax.com/drivetrain_shb.htm
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No this was a custom unit. Ford Thunderbird made a centered 8.8 rear though. Aluminum too. I doubt that low enough gears are availible though.
Mike
They can be modifies to use ford 8.8 ring and pinion There is a wide range of r&P avail for that but it is a c clip retainer :(. I had a 5liter t-bird with 4.10s after my wife took 3 teeth off the ring gear racing a mustang. that was a fun car, 5.0 with all the go fast goodies from SVO. Just a big pig till we gutted the interior and made generous use of a hole saw and cut off wheel. you couldn't tell when we got it back together but it sure had more road noise ;D. we auto crossed it for a while but she was faster than me :( I turned into the crew cheif ;D
Thanks
Wayne
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Kerry, I have to admit, that Unobtainium is not "my" word - nor is "Administrivium" - a material, which the more you machine it, the more you have...
But I think you SHOULD use the term anyway!
Neutronium, of course, (in my experience) came from an old Star Trek episode, where some big spliff-looking thing was eating planets, and the hull was made of Neutronium.
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i'm a Ford guy and i've never seen one in a production car.  but let me wake up an if i think of anything, i'll be back.
stu
We have them in Australia in the Ford Falcon and there is a company that puts them into a GM IRS ($$$)from the Holden Commodore (a 4dr version of the Monaro that is exported to the US as the Pontiac GTO)
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I think you guys are way off with this centered third member thing.
First of all the 9" ford is big (read tall). There is not enough room to put it under the oil pan without loosing ground clearance. I believe that ground clearance on the Sidekick/tracker should be our first consideration.
Second How much could you possibly gain by doing it. Mike has already shown that big travel is possible by just using a different CV. He used Maxima CV's, I don"t know what the max angle is on those but the Porsche 930 - CV Has a maximum angle of about 40 degrees. This is almost twice what the stock inner cup has. and they are extremely strong.
Now if we were designing long travel prerunner type front suspension where the A arms extend from the other side of the vehicle there could be an argument made for this design. But given the limitations of the system we have. Shortened axles don't do much to help the problem everyone is having in the front end which is not enough strength or flex in the stock CV's
The last problem with a centered third member is that now the drive shaft is running at an extreme angle this will introduce more problems into the system. There will be accelerated wear of the u joints, possible vibration issues, as well as multiplication of normal torque stress's introduced into the system. This could result in catastophic failure under extreme conditions.
Dave Ulrich
Lil Suzys Dad
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I think you guys are way off with this centered third member thing.
1.   There is not enough room to put it under the oil pan without loosing ground clearance. I believe that ground clearance on the Sidekick/tracker should be our first consideration.
2.   Second How much could you possibly gain by doing it. Mike has already shown that big travel is possible by just using a different CV. He used Maxima CV's, I don"t know what the max angle is on those but the Porsche 930 - CV Has a maximum angle of about 40 degrees. This is almost twice what the stock inner cup has. and they are extremely strong.
3.   Now if we were designing long travel prerunner type front suspension where the A arms extend from the other side of the vehicle  there could be an argument made for this design. But given the limitations of the system we have. Shortened axles don't do much to help the problem everyone is having in the front end which is not enough strength or flex in the stock CV's
4.   The last problem with a centered third member is that now the drive shaft is running at an extreme angle this will introduce more problems into the system. There will be accelerated wear of the u joints, possible vibration issues, as well as multiplication of normal torque stress's introduced into the system. This could result in catastophic failure under extreme conditions.
Dave Ulrich
Lil Suzys Dad
Dave,  Sorry but I have to disagree.  I think we are CENTERED right on target.
1.  I have dropped the crossmembers 4" and I do have the necessary room for a Hybrid centered chunk. ÂÂ
  I believe that the only true way to get ground clearance under the axle on a Solid axle truck is by increasing the tire size.  Even wheeling an IFS Kick increased tire size is the best way to gain clearance.  The suspension when set up properly will cycle and you will loose gound clearance gained by setting the fron end up to ride extra high especially on the slow down hill crawl.  For an IFS truck to have the proper ride and handeling a maxed out overlifted front end in not the answer. ÂÂ
2.  I am not an expert on Mikes truck but i do try to note and follow along.  He has way nore then just modified CV's.  As I recall some of his mods are  2" crossmember drop, Widened rear A-arm mounts, Centered custom Calmini Anvil diff and the modified CV's.  He has also addressed the steering and rear axle isses as well as many other aspects that I am yet unaware of.  ÂÂ
3.  Shortened axles don't do much to help the problem everyone is having in the front end which is not enough strength or flex in the stock CVs  I'm not sure I follow this statement.  The whole point of the centered diff in with the stock A-arms is to reduce the operating angle of the CVs.  The centered diff will use longer equal legnth CVs.  Longer front A-arms and more travel is the next logical step after modifying the diff and shafts.
4.  Stock the front drive shaft is running near perfect angles.  Offsetting the diff to center will only be a mild change.  The driveshaft will be running in a similar angle to the stock rear shaft on a lifted application only the angle will be near constant.  It should be no more than that of the current short wheel based rigs.  I do not see the drive shaft stregnth or ange being an issue at all.  Oil pan clearance maybe, but the lift and mild pan mods should make adequate clearance.
Only disadvantage I see to the centered theory diff is time money and spares.  All of the operating issues are a PLUS.
Below is Mikes previous post on this topic about installing his centered diff....
Just a heads up, just to fit a stock diff centered you need to lift the motor 5 inches just to clear the oil pan. My hood got in the way so I raised it 3 inches and cut the frame and dropped it 1.5 inches... then got a shoehorn... ::) ...and its still close. My point is, its definately possible but most likely as a one off only.
Mike
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It's not a lot but you can gain some clearance by using a Sammi pan in place of the Kick one and minor mods to the pickup.
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1.  I have dropped the crossmembers 4" and I do have the necessary room for a Hybrid centered chunk. ÂÂ
ÂÂ
Whitfield your missing the point............
What we are suggesting and hope to implement is a hybrid housing, ala Anvil type, that can be installed without fabbing, modifiying, cutting, welding of anything. Using simple hand tools and a floor jack and a few hours of time.
Install the housing (Unobtanium) to the exsisting mounting points, then install stronger larger axle shafts(TORA TORA)........Done!
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the housing, does this include the third member or just the outer housing?? any new developments??
shane
ps. i could be a tester for ya if you need one or not.
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Different housing
Different third member
Different axle shafts
All the above bolts right in............simple!
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The drive shaft would have to go thru the oil
pan, a Sammy pan would not help. If you followed
Mikes install, he lifted the engine to get the clearance
needed for the driveshaft. So you have two choices,
lift the engine, or drop the crossmember, lifting the
engine could be done with risers for the motor mounts,
but you also need a body lift to clear the top of the engine.
Dropping the crossmember is not a bolt in install.
I said months ago, widening the front A-arms, as well as moving them forward is the way to go, it would be bolt
on and weld upper control arms, slip shafts and away
you go, CVs replaced with units that have more degrees
of movment and a higher lift, I think around 6" front lift
would be no problem, with no CV problems and not over
lifted topped out in the travel either.
Any guinea pigs ???
PM Me
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Bolt in axle strength for track/kicks sounds great, and saves the fabrication of a solid axle swap. However, the simplest way to address all the major issues: clearance, flex, strength, and serviceability is a solid axle swap. Also, if you use leaf springs, the fab work would be minimized and it can be done CHEAPLY.
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This thread is for IFS guys that want
to keep their IFS, SAS is a different solution
that we don't want, at least not yet.
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Sorry, wasn't trying to kill the thread. If a cost effective, bolt in solution for IFS strength can become a reality, it will be awesome. I hope it works, but as you can tell I'm a solid axle believer. ;)
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Best solution is as follows:
New housing that accomodates a larger/stronger/inexpensive diff with R&P ratios that are "particular" to Kicks and Tracks!
Axles can be upgraded, (if one wants to or use stock OEM axle shafts, so be it) that will be stronger and bolt in, no knuckle or housing modifications!
Stock OEM drive shaft that bolts right up, with NO modifications, and no more than a one inch difference in location!
ALL mountig points are stock..NO relocation issues!
No welding, No fabbing, No lowering of x-member.
Remember when this happens, ground clearance diminishes, cutting and welding and modifying take place. Make it simple and easy.....Calmini's claim to fame!
And the best part............Easy afternoon install!
I don't understand how anyone here in Z world could find this to be a BAD idea! Unless it is the cost factor, which is relavent. I "predict" that if one wants to purchase one of these Unobtainium set ups, complete with upgraded axles that the cost will be in the $1000 dollar range....that's a "prediction" not a promise. Could be higher or lower...you never know until all the R&D and materials are added up. Without upgraded axles...............$500-600 range......
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Hi all, I am sorry if I stepped on any toes with my post yesterday. the point of my message was to point out that a centered third member and stub axles does not create a solution to the strength problem we have in the front axle and CV's and infact introduces new problems into the system instead of making it better.
Because CV's are available which will allow a kick to ramp over 1000 using a standard width axle. I would conclude that axle width is not the issue. and since centering the third member creates problems, I wonder what benefit could be achieved by doing it.
Dave
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Sorry, wasn't trying to kill the thread. If a cost effective, bolt in solution for IFS strength can become a reality, it will be awesome. I hope it works, but as you can tell I'm a solid axle believer. ;)
Here is the SAS thread, was burried
http://www.zukiworld.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=suzuki_talk;action=display;num=1104194587
I don't mind you chimeing in, but I've heard plenty
on Pirate about "polishing a turd" and go SAS and
so on, I like my IFS, I've seen the Sammys bobbing
all over the place from the solid axle, and how I don't
I know there are benefits with SAS, and you know,
there are benefits with IFS too, there never will be a perfect offroad vehicle, there are just some situations
the SAS works better, or LWB works better, or SWB
works better, or IFS works better, more HP is better,
less HP is better, Swampers are better, AT's are better
you can't have the perfect truck, you make it the best
you can, learn what it does and doesen't do and go
from there, live with it, or mod it, or break it it's your
choice, have fun with it
You didn't kill this thread, and on the other hand
SAS has it's place here too, but we are dedicated to
the modding and beefing of IFS, I know one thing
IFS will always have more diff clearance tire for tire
than a SAS, so there is a disadvantage you can't
overcome, see pros and cons
;)
Wild
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You mean the Track/kick is not the perfect off road vehica???
I don't understand???
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It's getting close ;D
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I may have some crow to eat but I am not sure.
I have some pictures on my website of Mikes Tracker ramping over 1000 on his clubs ramp. I think that at that time he was using a modified sidekick rear axle in the front which was still the stock width with the Maxima CV's.
I did a search and found a post where Mike explains what he did to get that centered axle into his truck.
"Actually what Ive got is better than that. Im using a prototype Calmini anvil. The long side was elliminated and it is center mounted. Basicly it is just a suzuki 3rd member with 2 axle stubs hangin out. Then I built 2 passenger side Maxima shafts. (longer and larger)
To center mount the diff I had to raise the motor 3 inches and also cut and drop the center cross member 1 1/2 inches.... along with the front. Then I flipped the tierod ends to the top of the knuckle to correct steering geometery. ( I was aware that I would flip the tie rods thats why I chose 1 1/2 inches.) This causes the fulcrum of the lower control arm to change requireing a 1 3/4 inch coil spring spacer to retain center clearance. This required a strut drop of 1 1/2 inches. (see a chain reaction ) The final product was a 5 inch lift in the front.... so I leveled the back with a 1 1/2 inch spacer.... but that was too much angle on the rear arms and the rig would weird things on steep hill climbs. So I cut the frame where the upper v bar attaches and dropped it 2 inches. This made the upper link level on my rig. It still didnt feel right so cut the lower control arm bracket off the frame and moved it forward to the next hole in the frame. Then I made a pair of longer control arms out of 3/16 thick 1 3/4 dom tubing and had it bent with a high clearance like the Calimini 3 inch."
So it can be done, I wonder how much benefit was gained. What I really want to know now is if Mike thinks it was worth it and would he do it again?
I went out and looked at the front axle in little suzy it is about 2 feet wide stock. about the least you are going to get cutting it down is about 1 foot wide. In looking at the clearance around the axle now with my 2" Calmini lift it looks like by massaging the cross member and moving the axle down and forward an inch or so you could probably move the third member over far enough to take about 6" out of the axle.
another thing that I thought of is if I remember correctly the Ring gear is on the right or passenger side of the housing. This means that some housing could be trimmed from the top left side for oil pan clearance.
Dave
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Ring is on the left (U.S. Drivers side)
of the carrier
Wild
Ohh I see a Crow ;)
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So it can be done, I wonder how much benefit was gained. What I really want to know now is if Mike thinks it was worth it and would he do it again?
Dave
I would definately do it again. Sure I could RTI but that isnt everything. The durability then wasnt what it is today. I currently have a difficult time breaking anything on this rig with 35 inch BFG Krawlers on it. IFS or SAS you are going to have a hard time finding a rig more durable.
Center mounting the diff reduces operating angle while retaining clearance, that equals durability. The driveshaft angle is minimal. I have no vibration.
On the other hand I dont think this is a mod for the average person. Most people I think would deem this much fab work unnessicary. I think some stronger axles would be the answer for most people.
Mike
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Mike, what did you do for axils? Did you have special shafts made?
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Mike, what did you do for axils? Did you have special shafts made?
Which are you refering to? The cvs or the inners?
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Ok, what are you doing for shaft?
I know you running the Maxima's.
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This is actually a Calmini prototype Anvil. It has the same axle stub you have but this one has 2. One for each side.
Mike
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Don't you have longer axils for the center mounted diff?
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Mike what is the carrier/diff.............9" or stock ?
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Don't you have longer axils for the center mounted diff?
CVs? I built 2 passenger side Maxima shafts, they are like 6 inches longer than the drivers side ones I used to run. I sold my old ones to Zig.
Mike
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Mike what is the carrier/diff.............9" or stock ?
9" or stock diff in the front?
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Yep, CV shafts... It's late.
I was just wondering how much longer "CV 1/2 shafts" ;D it took.
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9" or stock diff in the front?
Secret
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Hey Mike what happens when I ask a question?
You become Stevie Wonder?
At least tell me it's none of my business so I don't sit here like a puppy at S. Kramers feet!
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Kerry, I'm not answering for Mike,  But looking above I saw this information.   Modified anvil with 2 short side shafts center mounted.
9" or stock diff in the front?
This is actually a Calmini prototype Anvil. It has the same axle stub you have but this one has 2. One for each side.
Mike
NEXT
Whitfield your missing the point............
What we are suggesting and hope to implement is a hybrid housing, ala Anvil type, that can be installed without fabbing, modifiying, cutting, welding of anything. Using simple hand tools and a floor jack and a few hours of time.
Install the housing (Unobtanium) to the exsisting mounting points, then install stronger larger axle shafts(TORA TORA)........Done!
Kerry I agree with your model near 100% though your projected price scared the heck out of me.  I enjoy building in the shop almost as much as wheeling.  Dropping that kind of cash on some one elses stuff is a big step for me. ÂÂ
If this product were available and i had it under the front of my kick, then I'd quit dreaming about building my own centered diff and CV's.  Until that day comes I'll continue to ramble about my ideias and what I think I need. ÂÂ
I hope the Unobtanium Ideia happens but until it does and hits RETAIL, it is sorta like waiting for the RRO Rock Father, or Trail Tought lift or Shrocks Kick bumpers & sliders...  ÂÂ
Meanwhile I'll keep dreaming about a centered kick rear up front (Free 5.13's) with Toyota IFS shafts.
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"Modified anvil with 2 short side shafts center mounted."
This describes the following:
2 stub shafts
Center mounted diff.........What Diff? 9", front Tracker, Rear tracker, 44, 20,30,60, which one?
I agree with you whitfield. I would rather spot than drive..see it working. But building is the most enjoyable, Yes I agree.
As for price.....Anvil-$589..A pair of upgraded axles for a  sammy  $400............Not all that out of line with whats out there.
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This has been a great thread guys!
Thanks to all of you for participating.
Having gone SAS and wanting to stay IFS this has really given me some great ideas.
~Nate
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I MAY have missed it, but I don't think that anybody has looked at modifying the oil pan to make centering the diff a little easier.
EDIT:  Yup, I missed it - CJ said a Sami Oil pan could be used.
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Hey Mike what happens when I ask a question?
You become Stevie Wonder?
At least tell me it's none of my business so I don't sit here like a puppy at S. Kramers feet!
After a reply like that you dont deserve a response THIS ISNT PIRATE!!!
For the rest of you that do deserve a response...
It was late and my computer gave me the blue screen of death while responing to Kerrys post. I was tired went to bed but, I actually thought my post had posted though.
Mike
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Sorry to have ruffled your feathers....
I noticed though that the question has still not been addressed.........Hey mike if you are not a liberty to say then just respond appropriately.
It won't "upset" me
.....as obviously this inquiry seems to have you a bit on edge.  Not being a wise ass just.......well I have a sense of humor that obviously is not conveyed well on the cyber waves.............But Hey......
what diff ya using?
Sorry that you had probs with your computer. If I was a mind reader I would have known that there was trouble in RPM'ville and wouldn't have "poked fun (sophmoric at that) at the Calmini/Kramer TROOPS"!
Of course if I was a mind reader I would know what diff...........HEY HEY!!!
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Sorry to have ruffled your feathers....
I noticed though that the question has still not been addressed.........Hey mike if you are not a liberty to say then just respond appropriately.
It won't "upset" me
.....as obviously this inquiry seems to have you a bit on edge.  Not being a wise ass just.......well I have a sense of humor that obviously is not conveyed well on the cyber waves.............But Hey......
what diff ya using?
Sorry that you had probs with your computer. If I was a mind reader I would have known that there was trouble in RPM'ville and wouldn't have "poked fun (sophmoric at that) at the Calmini/Kramer TROOPS"!
Of course if I was a mind reader I would know what diff...........HEY HEY!!!
This is just my observation & opinion about you (kerrywittig)
I Posted this once before in the Water Cooler and as colorful as it is,
you seem to apply yourself to the last excerpt of that posting.[/color]
Life is all about ass;
we're either covering it,
laughing it off,
kicking it,
kissing it,
busting it,
trying to get a piece of it,
or behaving like one ...
I consider Mikerpm4x4 to be a great contributor and a pioneer in the field of the home brewed inventions that work with his 4x4 setup and many others here in ZukiWorld. So to be harassing the man is very un-cool. And the way your treating him offends me.
THIS IS JUST MY TWO CENTS...
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My god, I haven't cursed at Mr Hagen, as he has towards me Who you callin' the Pirate Mikey??
I did ask what diff are you using and he has not even yet told me, for an "out" I even suggested that he might not be able to share that info and I would drop the subject.
I Don't get this "Church" of Mike Vibe that's going on here. I asked a question and people get upset when I question with some humor, that obviously must either being doing 2 of 3 things.
1. Some people here have no sense of humor and are overly sensitive..........
2. I have asked a question which is unappropriate, " What diff are you using Mike?"
Now that's 2.......... the 3rd which I don't dare include because it may well hurt someones feelings, I would rather not display.........Oh what the hay.........here goes...............OR
3. The humor has, "Hit the nail on the Kramer, I mean the Head"
(NOTE* that was humor there, my humor, but still thought I should explain, Don't want to hurt somebody's feelings, Opps that's humor again)!!
Meaning(I feel I should explain myself so as not to "upset" anyone at church*, (humor again)) Mike is helping Calmini to develope a new product and therefore can not share certain info at this time........That fine and would be an understandable explanation....So now that we have that out of the way!
"Hey Mike what diff you using?"
I will in the future always denote humor with an asterik(*) so as not to offend, enrage or cause the initial thread to be hijacked by soap opera squabbling,........ notice there is no asterik cause I was being serious, Now let's get back to the point of this thread...........How about a new housing that will accomadate a larger R&P. and upgraded axles too!! Anyone got ideas or experience doing that and would like to "share"!
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Before this gets all blown out of proportion, I have to defend both of these guys.
I have known Kerry for almost 10 years now. Steve Kramer introduced us way back when Kerry and I were the only two in the US who had built their Sidekick/Tracker into capable offroad rigs. Kerry has owned his truck since 91 and I have owned Lil suzy since 92. The 2" lifts on our trucks are among the first that Calmini ever sold.
I also know Mike. He and I have talked several times
and again we were introduced by Steve because of our commitment to the Sidekick/Tracker as an offroad vehicle.
Both these guys have knowledge to share, both are good honest people, both have years of experience. Both approach the subject from a different point of view, as do I. This is a marketplace of ideas and we should keep it that way
Now I don't know why Mike was ignoring Kerrys question the other night. If you go back an look Mike was responding to other peoples posts but not to kerrys question. Now maybe Mike thought it was a stupid question. That it should be easy to figure out that he is running a Samurai style third member since it is an Calmini anvil case. But Kerry asked politely 3 times before he asked humerously why Mike was ignoring his question.
This is something between Mike and Kerry. I am sure it has to do with their differing views on building these trucks. But again I would ask that all of us keep this a marketplace of ideas, all ideas are good. Only by exploring them all can we make the best decisions for our own trucks.
Mike and Kerry, I hope that both of you can give each other the respect you deserve on this forum You are both inovators of the highest calibre, and vital to the development of the Sidekick/Tracker platform as a reliable offroad truck.
Thanks,
Dave
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Before this gets all blown out of proportion, I have to defend both of these guys.
I have known Kerry for almost 10 years now. Steve Kramer introduced us way back when Kerry and I were the only two in the US who had built their Sidekick/Tracker into capable offroad rigs. Kerry has owned his truck since 91 and I have owned Little suzy since 92. The 2" lifts on our trucks are among the first that Calmini ever sold.
I also know Mike. He and I have talked several times
and again we were introduced by Steve because of our commitment to the Sidekick/Tracker as an offroad vehicle.
Both these guys have knowledge to share, both are good honest people, both have years of experience. Both approach the subject from a different point of view, as do I. This is a marketplace of ideas and we should keep it that way
Now I don't know why Mike was ignoring Kerrys question the other night. If you go back an look Mike was responding to other peoples posts but not to kerrys question. Now maybe Mike thought it was a stupid question. That it should be easy to figure out that he is running a Samurai style third member since it is an Calmini anvil case. But Kerry asked politely 3 times before he asked humerously why Mike was ignoring his question.
This is something between Mike and Kerry. I am sure it has to do with their differing views on building these trucks. But again I would ask that all of us keep this a marketplace of ideas, all ideas are good. Only by exploring them all can we make the best decisions for our own trucks.
Mike and Kerry, I hope that both of you can give each other the respect you deserve on this forum You are both inovators of the highest calibre, and vital to the development of the Sidekick/Tracker platform as a reliable offroad truck.
Thanks,
Dave
Well said and appreciated.................
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Don't know if anyone else has looked at this on Pirate but there is a Toy IFS conversion on a 4dr just for something different.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318480
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Don't know if anyone else has looked at this on Pirate but there is a Toy IFS conversion on a 4dr just for something different. ÂÂ
[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318480[/url]
:o Toy IFS conversion on a 4dr...
Total money spent on the front swap: $200
Total money spent on the rear swap: $100
__________________
Suzuki Vitara JLX 5 door
G16B, Garrett VNT25 |removethispart|@ 15psi, MegaSquirt'N'Spark, MSD6A
Toyota Hilux rear axle, 5.71:1 + TrueTrac, 35" BFGoodrich all-terrain
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Wow! isn't Mike working on adapting Toy half shafts to the SideKick? Talk about a low cost solution. This could be the ultimate budget upgrade.
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My god, I haven't cursed at Mr Hagen, as he has towards me Who you callin' the Pirate Mikey??
I did ask what diff are you using and he has not even yet told me, for an "out" I even suggested that he might not be able to share that info and I would drop the subject.
I Don't get this "Church" of Mike Vibe that's going on here. I asked a question and people get upset when I question with some humor, that obviously must either being doing 2 of 3 things.
1. Some people here have no sense of humor and are overly sensitive..........
2. I have asked a question which is unappropriate, " What diff are you using Mike?"
Now that's 2.......... the 3rd which I don't dare include because it may well hurt someones feelings, I would rather not display.........Oh what the hay.........here goes...............OR
3. The humor has, "Hit the nail on the Kramer, I mean the Head"
(NOTE* that was humor there, my humor, but still thought I should explain, Don't want to hurt somebody's feelings, Opps that's humor again)!!
Meaning(I feel I should explain myself so as not to "upset" anyone at church*, (humor again)) Mike is helping Calmini to develope a new product and therefore can not share certain info at this time........That fine and would be an understandable explanation....So now that we have that out of the way!
"Hey Mike what diff you using?"
I will in the future always denote humor with an asterik(*) so as not to offend, enrage or cause the initial thread to be hijacked by soap opera squabbling,........ notice there is no asterik cause I was being serious, Now let's get back to the point of this thread...........How about a new housing that will accomadate a larger R&P. and upgraded axles too!! Anyone got ideas or experience doing that and would like to "share"!
1- The one with no sense of humor is you. More importantly no patience.
2- Have you asked a question which is unappropriate? Id say yes. Just to be absolutely clear I never had a problem until this post.
Hey Mike what happens when I ask a question?
You become Stevie Wonder?
At least tell me it's none of my business so I don't sit here like a puppy at S. Kramers feet!
3- Yes you hit the nail on the head when you lead a personal attack on my character.
My front diff is not a secret and has never been a secret as I have talked about it many times. I already explained to you why I had not responded. It was an accident. I thought my response to your post went through before my computer locked up. I guess I should have rebooted and got back online so I wouldnt have to go through all this crap! It is a Calmini prototype Centermount 7.5 Anvil. It has the same axles that every other Anvil has on the short side but this one has 2. I cant talk about why Calmini built it but I can tell you what it is.
As for your "Church of Hagen" BS ...I have a lot of freinds on here, sorry if that upsets you. Mabey its cause I dont talk to people with your "sense of humor".
Mike
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My god, I haven't cursed at Mr Hagen, as he has towards me  Who you callin' the Pirate Mikey??
I did ask what diff are you using and he has not even yet told me, for an "out"  I even suggested that he might not be able to share that info and I would drop the subject.
I Don't get this "Church" of Mike Vibe that's going on here. I asked a question and people get upset when  I question with some humor, that obviously must either being doing 2 of 3 things.
1. Some people here have no sense of humor and are overly sensitive..........
2. I have asked a question which is unappropriate, " What diff are you using Mike?"
Now that's 2.......... the 3rd which I don't dare include because it may well hurt someones feelings, I would rather not display.........Oh what the hay.........here goes...............OR
3. The humor has, "Hit the nail on the Kramer, I mean the Head"
(NOTE* that was humor there, my humor, but still thought I should explain, Don't want to hurt somebody's feelings, Opps that's humor again)!!
Meaning(I feel I should explain myself so as not to "upset" anyone at church*, (humor again)) Mike is helping Calmini to develope a new product and therefore can not share certain info at this time........That fine and would be an understandable explanation....So now that we have that out of the way!
"Hey Mike what diff you using?"
I will in the future always denote humor with an asterik(*) so as not to offend, enrage or cause the initial thread to be hijacked by soap opera squabbling,........ notice there is no asterik cause I was being serious, Now let's get back to the point of this thread...........How about a new housing that will accomadate a larger R&P. and upgraded axles too!! Anyone got ideas or experience doing that and would like to "share"!
how about you quit being such a smart ass? you are making your self look liek a total ass hole.
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My front diff is not a secret and has never been a secret as I have talked about it many times. I already explained to you why I had not responded. It was an accident. I thought my response to your post went through before my computer locked up. I guess I should have rebooted and got back online so I wouldnt have to go through all this crap! It is a Calmini prototype Centermount 7.5 Anvil. It has the same axles that every other Anvil has on the short side but this one has 2. I cant talk about why Calmini built it but I can tell you what it is.
Mike ÂÂ
Thank you
Kerry
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Kerry,
FYI. I knew the answer to your question all along and did not reply because I also was under the impression that you were being an inpaitent ass. Wich suprised me after how pleasant it was dealing with you buying parts :-/
From 8:23PM-8:46PM no answer that you want, so the comments start flying :-/
Zig
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This has been a great thread guys!
Thanks to all of you for participating.
Having gone SAS and wanting to stay IFS this has really given me some great ideas.
~Nate
Can we get back on topic yet.
I was really learning a lot.
~Nate
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Can we get back on topic yet.
I was really learning a lot.
~Nate
I agree!
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Kerry,
FYI. I knew the answer to your question all along ÂÂ
From 8:23PM-8:46PM no answer that you want, so the comments start flying :-/
Zig
I didn't know the answer, that's why I asked.
Thanks for your help Zukipilot!?!? ( Note: NO asterick (*) to signify humor)
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Hey Mike, Can you bring me up to speed on your truck and what was breaking on your front end before you went to the shorter axles? Was it the Maxima CV's? What is their maximum working angle? What are you running for a strut now? have you maxed out the potential front end travel? how much do you have? The old ramp pic's are pretty impressive How much RTI do you have now?
Thanks,
Dave
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My front diff is not a secret and has never been a secret as I have talked about it many times. I already explained to you why I had not responded. It was an accident. I thought my response to your post went through before my computer locked up. I guess I should have rebooted and got back online so I wouldnt have to go through all this crap! It is a Calmini prototype Centermount 7.5 Anvil. It has the same axles that every other Anvil has on the short side but this one has 2. I cant talk about why Calmini built it but I can tell you what it is.
Mike ÂÂ
How are drive shaft angles with this centered set up? Are you get any bad vibes?
George
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Hey Mike, Can you bring me up to speed on your truck and what was breaking on your front end before you went to the shorter axles? Was it the Maxima CV's? What is their maximum working angle? What are you running for a strut now? have you maxed out the potential front end travel? how much do you have? The old ramp pic's are pretty impressive How much RTI do you have now?
Thanks,
Dave
I dont know what the maximum angle is on the maxima but its probabally the same as the tracker as they look Identical exept the Maximas are bigger. I used to break inner cvs once in awhile with 33s. Mabey 3-4 a year. I was planning to go to 35s so I knew the problem would get worse with the extra force. Plus my driving gets more agressive every year. The center mount diff was more of a preventitive maintence build. Center mounting the diff reduced the cv angle while maintaining clearance.
I am (and always was) running the OME struts. Im not really gaining any travel with them since I have rubber bumpers on the shaft to soften the blow on impact. My front travel is maxed out by the strut, not the cvs. I considered building upper control arms but I dont know what would be gained. I dont want more down travel or I will be right back to maxed CV angles. The only advantage I can possibly see would be some up travel before the coil went solid and the ability to run an adjustable shock.
My last score was 1180 on a 23 degree ramp with air pressure at 6 psi. That is the pressure I wheel at. Im not sure but I think thats the same # I had back 3 years ago. Id have to got to my spec page to check.
Mike
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How are drive shaft angles with this centered set up? Are you get any bad vibes?
George
No vibes whatsoever. The angle is minimal, no more that the rear shaft on a 3 inch lift. Besides, I dont ever drive down the hwy in 4wd anyway since I have a locker in the front. The closest I ever come is leaving the hubs locked in while running to a gas station or trail head.
Mike
Mike
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My last score was 1180 on a 23 degree ramp with air pressure at 6 psi. That is the pressure I wheel at.
Not at Moab, you were running like 12 ;D
Ever figure out who pumped up your tires ?
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Mike,
From what your say you have something like this? Just with wide mounting points.
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/Anvil-Axlefs.jpg)
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Hi Mike, On those OME's do you have the top dropped to maximize travel? What happened with that longer Chevy strut you were working on awhile back?
Dave
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Mike,
From what your say you have something like this? Just with wide mounting points.
([url]http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/Anvil-Axlefs.jpg[/url])
Yes almost exactly like that.
Mike
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Hi Mike, On those OME's do you have the top dropped to maximize travel? What happened with that longer Chevy strut you were working on awhile back?
Dave
They have the same amount of droop as when I had the rear struts out of a Lumina in there. With the OMEs I lost a little bit of up travel compared to the Luminas but still more than travel than a stock strut. I took the Lumina struts out cause they were unreliable. RTI is not as important as reliability. I had several of them lock up after just a few thousand miles. The travel was nice but I couldnt put up with the failure. The OMEs are totally reliable.
Mike
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Not at Moab, you were running like 12 ;D
Ever figure out who pumped up your tires ?
Im pretty sure it was just me not paying attention when I was airing down. I must have done something wrong. I cant imagine someone actually airing up my tires. ::) I just wish I would have figured it out earlier in the week! I should have figured that one out from the feel of the vehicle. :-[Ever wanna just kick your own ass! ;D
Mike
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That's funny, cause I was thinking the tires
looked a little hard, I mean I run mine at
5 PSI for wheeling, but I figured, hey, it's
your truck, you know where you like your
tires inflated to ;) Sorry I should have
said somthing when I noticed
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am i missin somethin here, i thought this was about an axle not tires, and is there an inside joke about mikes tires? ???
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Ya, and what happens in Moab, Stays in Moab
;D
I guess you will have to come to Moab to get
the story
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WARNING!!!! TOTALLY OFF TOPIC!!!
am i missin somethin here, i thought this was about an axle not tires, and is there an inside joke about mikes tires? ???
Heres the deal...::) On my last day in moab last year at the end of the last trail I couldnt get up something that I did so easily last year. At that point I knew something wasnt quite right. I got out and checked my tires and they were at 12psi. I wheel at 6. I swear I aired them down all the way but... ??? Who knows what happened. :-/ All I know is I wish I had figured it out about 7 days earlier! :P
Mike
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Hi Mike last question what CV's are you running now?
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Hi Mike last question what CV's are you running now?
Passengers side 92-95 Nissan Maxima. Just to be clear for the people who dont already know they are modified... I cut the ends and welded tracker ends on... they dont just bolt in. (long story)
Mike
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Passengers side 92-95 Nissan Maxima. Just to be clear for the people who dont already know they are modified... I cut the ends and welded tracker ends on... they dont just bolt in. (long story)
Mike
its not with Maxima shafts but its close
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_040103/feature_hagencvshaft.htm
stu
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You know what makes me mad about all this is that no one sells this stuff. I mean for someone like me who doesn't have access to the eq. :-/ I guess its time to start making a workshop. Will just have to tell the wife it for all the stuff that I work in around the house ::)
George
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You know what makes me mad about all this is that no one sells this stuff.
Well, I believe that will change in March.
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Well, I believe that will change in March.
Don't tease me ;)
George
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Don't tease me
No teasing - Kerry is doing the Tora Tora axles - he says production in March.
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No teasing - Kerry is doing the Tora Tora axles - he says production in March.
My only problem with this that I have an XL-7 no anvil for me >:( unless I could talk some one into mod-ing one to fit.
George
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XL7 I thought your front end chunk and housing were already Steel?
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My only problem with this that I have an XL-7 no anvil for me  >:( unless I could talk some one into mod-ing one to fit.
George
I don't think Tora axles (unless they are longer then stock ones ?) would work on a XL 7 even if you could get an Anvil in it. The G/V axles are longer by 38mm's over a stock 1600 axle then they have a different spline just to make things more complicated ???
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/GVvsES.jpg)
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I don't think Tora axles (unless they are longer then stock ones ?) would work on a XL 7 even if you could get an Anvil in it. The G/V axles are longer by 38mm's over a stock 1600 axle then they have a different spline just to make things more complicated  ???
The size wouldn't be that big of a deal to work around. But the splines I thought where the same?
George
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Sorry I should have been more clear,
The spline on the end of the axle it self is different, the axle looks bigger in diameter until you pull the C/V boot off it then you notice it's shoulder down to near the size of the 1600 axle where it fits into the C/V but with much finer spline. The spline for the FWH's and 26 spline diff are the same.
The outer C/Vs are the same dimensions as mine and would work but the inner right would not be able to used (with a stock kick diff with 26 spline side gears) as it has the off set for the G/V air actuated diff, not that I'd need the right as I was looking at using these with the anvil.
Until I get my Anvil (hopefully a week or two) I won't know if I can use them with the extra 38mm of length, Mike - would you know if longer axles will work with 3" lift and the Anvil or will they create more problems ?
-
If I recall correctly, you are most likely not refering to an american production XL-7... ÂÂ
Air Actuated Diff ? I'd like to see pics of that. ÂÂ
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It seems that the week link in the CV half shaft is the inner Cup. It's maximum angle is less than the outer and seems to be weaker. All the stronger cv's I have seen use that design as well.
Has anyone thought of or tried using two outer style CV's with a slip spline axle in the middle?
It seems to me that this would provide better operating angles, better reliablity, and strength.
Granted this would be a custom axle as it does not seem to exist in nature, however if it cured the breakage /articulation challenges we have without completely redesigning the front drivetrain it might be worth looking at.
Dave
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It seems that the week link in the CV half shaft is the inner Cup. It's maximum angle is less than the outer and seems to be weaker. All the stronger cv's I have seen use that design as well.
Has anyone thought of or tried using two outer style CV's with a slip spline axle in the middle?
It seems to me that this would provide better operating angles, better reliablity, and strength.
Granted this would be a custom axle as it does not seem to exist in nature, however if it cured the breakage /articulation challenges we have without completely redesigning the front drivetrain it might be worth looking at.
Dave
Wild's posted about using two outer Tracker CVs and a slipshaft from a sammy, but I believe he mentioned that the slipshaft would be too big (diameter or length, I'm not sure... maybe both) to work... this is where a centered diff would come in handy... having the axles come straight out of the pumpkin rather than having a 2 foot wide differential housing.
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I do remember that, I didn't remember the part about the sami slip splines being to long.
Because the standard Cup only allows for about 3" of travel I would guess that you only would need 5 or 6 inches to really have something.
I think the Sami driveshaft slip splines are a good choice. as it keeps it in the family so to speak.
because they are going to have to be welded onto the current axle shaft, I think the slip spline could be cut down to whatever length is needed.
Now if they are too big around that is a different story.
Dave
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I do remember that, I didn't remember the part about the sami slip splines being to long.
Because the standard Cup only allows for about 3" of travel I would guess that you only would need 5 or 6 inches to really have something.
I think the Sami driveshaft slip splines are a good choice. because they are going to have to be welded onto the current axle shaft, I think the slip spline could be cut down to whatever length is needed.
Dave
I still think if you're gonna go through with all that work, it'd be more beneficial to just make a custom centered diff so that you have longer CV's which will result in decreased axle angle and shouldn't need as long a slip joint to operate properly.
-
Maybe your right, I have to agree that in a "perfect world" that a shortened housing is the best solution. I am really thinking about a solution for people who don't want to completely reengineer the front axle assembly.
Granted the shortened axle solution is probably the one I am going to choose for lil Suzy as well.
Dave
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My slip shaft solution was in conjunction with a
widened front A-arm setup, a total of 4-5 " now
if you have seen a Track/Kick front housing you
know it's not very big, and the additional 2 or so
inches, along with the removed CV cup, you now
have gained a longer CV shaft, about 4" per side,
and about the same as you will gain with a centered
front diff, with out all the hacking and welding.
This would be a bolt in and removeable setup, so
it could be moved to another vehicle, or heaven
forbid, you descide to change back to stock configuration
Zukizzy and I have talked about front drivelines (halfshafts) and I think we can come up with a
solution that will be Zuk based soon
Wild
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[quote author=wildgoody
"My slip shaft solution was in conjunction with a
widened front A-arm setup, a total of 4-5 " now
if you have seen a Track/Kick front housing you
know it's not very big, and the additional 2 or so
inches, along with the removed CV cup, you now
have gained a longer CV shaft, about 4" per side,
and about the same as you will gain with a centered
front diff, with out all the hacking and welding."
Thats kinda where I am with the idea as well. If a reliable CV axle can be produced that would allow good articulation and strength without reengineering the whole front drivetrain, it would be a better solution for most people.
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This would be almost a universal fit,
so the slipshaft CVs could be put on
a stock or lifted Track/Kick
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Is this something you are planning to bring to market?
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I have been thinking about it,
but there was much to buy (equipment)
now that it looks like Zukizzy and I will be
working on parts and mods, it's much
closer to being a reality.
This is a simple swap part, I could whip up
a custom set no problem, I'm looking at the
sourcing of parts, and Zukizzy has many sources.
I want to be able to have replacements be on
the shelf, same with parts, this is a part that
lets say the inner CV blows out and you have to
do a trail repair, well you would unbolt the inner
CV 3 bolt flange, collapse the slip spline, get the
broken end clear to pull it out, pop it apart, and
slide a new inner CV and spline onto the slip shaft,
bolt back up to the flange and go.
The outer will be a little harder because you have
to take the hub off, but the procedure is the same
Trail fixes are not hard now, but these would be
even easier, and best part, no inner CV cup, these
would be replaced with a more durable CV that has
no cup, which is the most common failure, so these
CV shafts will be more reliable
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[quote author=wildgoody
"My slip shaft solution was in conjunction with a
widened front A-arm setup, a total of 4-5 " now
if you have seen a Track/Kick front housing you
know it's not very big, and the additional 2 or so
inches, along with the removed CV cup, you now
have gained a longer CV shaft, about 4" per side,
and about the same as you will gain with a centered
front diff, with out all the hacking and welding."
Thats kinda where I am with the idea as well. If a reliable CV axle can be produced that would allow good articulation and strength without reengineering the whole front drivetrain, it would be a better solution for most people.
That is all I'm looking for Stregnth & Reliability, Sounds like somthing that would work for me.
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Who can post some pix of TORA TORA axle side by side with stock axle for me? Thanks..........still not computer literate enough to figure it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(http://static.zoovy.com/img/offroadrecovery/W500-H500-Bffffff/S/suzyrocks.jpg)
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Hi Kerry, I have it figured out. Email the pictures to me and I will post them for you.
Dave
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Here are pictures of the Tora Axles Kerry is working on.
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/offroadrecovery/-/lil_suzy/tora_axle_1)(http://static.zoovy.com/img/offroadrecovery/-/lil_suzy/tora_axle_2)
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Those look like GM S series cv's (s-10, blazer) looking pretty good though ;D ;D
On a similar topic should the center mounted diff be mounted on factory style bushings or would a more rigid solid mount hold up better I'm very undecided on this myself ??? I'm making my own center section but I haven't decided the best way to mount it
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I would think that it would be better staying with the factory bushing. It would give the front houseing and axils a little extra cushion.
Plus, has the bushings been a problem for anyone? I don't remember anyone wearing out their bushings. I don't thing you'll gain anything.
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Here are pictures of the Tora Axles Kerry is working on.
([url]http://static.zoovy.com/img/offroadrecovery/-/lil_suzy/tora_axle_1[/url])([url]http://static.zoovy.com/img/offroadrecovery/-/lil_suzy/tora_axle_2[/url])
This looks really familiar.
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_040103/images/hagen_march/12done.jpg)
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_040103/feature_hagencvshaft.htm
Mike
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I would think that it would be better staying with the factory bushing. It would give the front houseing and axils a little extra cushion.
Plus, has the bushings been a problem for anyone? I don't remember anyone wearing out their bushings. I don't thing you'll gain anything.
If you stiffen the bushing you will add more stress to the CVs and ring and pinion. If you have a problem with front axle wrap I would add an additional bushing but I wouldnt stiffen the setup.
Mike
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Sure does...............But it's not maxima components and a welding job. A bit more involved.
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Mikes Picture is of the Ford Explorer axle modification article he wrote up for ZukiWorld a couple of years ago. not his Maxima axles. Yes I agree also that it does look similar. All the CV axle pictures posted here look like axles that fit a sidekick/tracker. Wait they do all fit the Sidekick/Tracker!
Can we move on now and talk about drivetrain engineering?
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Mikes Picture is of the Ford Explorer axle modification article he wrote up for ZukiWorld a couple of years ago. not his Maxima axles. Yes I agree also that it does look similar. All the CV axle pictures posted here look like axles that fit a sidekick/tracker. Wait they do all fit the Sidekick/Tracker!
Can we move on now and talk about drivetrain engineering?
Ops.........wrong again. This should be quite entertaining for Mr. Hagen ( and his friends that he pointed out in an earlier post, that he has on this BBS) to veiw my ineptness to be able to read and decipher the article that he provided the link to!*
Anyway enough of the humor (remember * denotes humorous ramblings), The TORA TORA axles are using components that are machined, keyed, mated, welded and then heat treated. A bit different than chop sawing and mig welding of components together.
Not that there is anything wrong with that! *(humor notation)
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Kerry,
Would you be able to make them longer aka to fit an XL-7 or GV???
George
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Kerry,
Would you be able to make them longer aka to fit an XL-7 or GV???
George
Probably.....but that will involve getting a GV/x7 in hand and start the "investigation".
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Thought you had an XL-7 you where parting out?
George
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Wow, what a great thread :o
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Resurrection Bump
Funny, I was doing some research on the 930 CVs and new
slip shafts, and Google came up with this old thread that was
on the same subject, so I thought I might resurrect this thread
and see if we have solved our CV woes or are we still having
strength issues???
May not be 930 CVs but even the regular VW flavor CVS are
quite strong and would be a good candidate for inner replacements
Wild
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well the toyota adapter kit that 37kicker was building was pretty bitchin. As far as something mass produced I am not aware of anything better.
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i'm still making the toy kits for those who need a stronger axle for a kick. still working great with 40's. stan
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i'm still making the toy kits for those who need a stronger axle for a kick. still working great with 40's. stan
pic's? you have peaked my interest....