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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Mythose on June 15, 2005, 02:58:43 AM
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I will be starting rebuild of the motor today, "when i get off work". just wanted to do some back ground for some that dont know.
If a motor runs rough, after a tune up, its a really good ideal to get a compression test. on all the cylindars, this should cost about $40, however there are lots of us backyard types that have a compression testor - and a trail rider would do good to have one in his tool box at home. Now if all cylendars pass a compression test. then a serious rebuild is probably not required, however in cases like i have out of the four 2 are great and 1 is acceptable, the #1 on the other hand only holds 30lb out of 113lb minimum.
Now, if you have a burned vaulve, or a sticky valuve, or a valuve that is to tight, the pressure will bleed off ie it will build to 100 and then bleed to almost nothing,
And if it is rings it will build to a certian pressure and hold.
also if there are 2 sylendars " #1 and #2" or"2&3" or "3&4" that are low in compression, the head gasket is likley gone
If the motor after sitting for a while smokes more then it should, or smokes every time you start it, its a good chance that the valve steam seals are worn, or cracked.
Allowing oil to enter the block from around the Valve.
Now I figure that if one is going to do somthing then at least do it to the best of your ability, and budget. which means if you have low compression, motor uses - leaks - burns oil. doesent mean you need to replace rods pistons crank camshaft lifters, ect. so instead of buying a master rebuild kit, I purchased
Rings, main bearings, rod bearings,
head set"this is all of the seals and gaskets for the top of the motor, and all the exhaust parts, event comes with the valve seals, front main seal, exhaust gaskets the whole nine yards.
you will also want to get a rear mainseal, timing belt, oil pangasket.
well there is the list of parts we will be using in the next 5 to 6 days.
I will post the recipt and prices,
Now for the special tools, a ring compressor, valve spring compressor. thats it. oh and a GOOD set of torque wrinches, and fealer gauges, and a set of mikes. the mikes can be rented or bought, and range for cheesy to titanium.
Helpfull things to have, a few good budys, or at least one to talk to. cupla ankel biters to clean the parts --- note they will be using chemicals, so safty glasses and GOOD RUBBER GLOVES is NOT AN OPTION IT IS NESECARY!!!!!! , if the kids do the cleaning. CHEM DIP CAN CAUSE INSTANT BLINDING IF IN THE EYES, AND PROLONGED EXPOSURE CAN CAUSE HEALTH PROBLEMBS. rember safty first, have eye wash solution on hand for YOU and YOUR HELPERS,
so tomorrow i will have picks of the cast, and one really good example of an SFP mistake "stupid fucking person"
IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEAL TO BOAR AND TAP A HEADBOLT 5MM LARGER THEN STOCK, AND REPLACE IT WITH ALL THREAD.
this is the first post in the project, shooting for a running rig on monday. Sorry it is long but I want people to know what to expect and decide if they want to follow it, it will be intresting and you all get to see a pic of my stock zuk lol
and yes it is worth all the work!
Ohh we are doing this to an 89 sidekick soft top, that has sufferd motor wise from SFP syndrome " see above" but has a pamperd inside, just needs to be detailed. and hte motor is a 1991 and this is a 1.6L 8V
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Excellent post and a great topic...
Two suggestions
- Get the head redone fully inc new guides, 3 angle
valve job ( more power, better wear)
- Don't buy cheap parts they always seem to come back
to haunt..go name brand
Other than that cool project and a great post for guys that haven't done it to follow.
Zag
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Thank you and that is why I am going to do the post, I would like to have the head fully rebuilt, but that is not in the budget, just gona take it back to stock , reseat the valves, clean everything up till it sparkels, but if it needs the attention it will get what it needs, debating on polishing the block, or painting it, maby a dull black for the block, and polish the head, so it has a 2 part look, but i dont know I got a chance to take a goot look at the kik, and its a PNW rig sold in portland, here all its life, but i am gona give the chasis a once over with rust eater, and a fresh coat of rust protectant, I love the little rigs, and i want it to be arround for a long while. "there is a little surface rust on exhaust and some parts of the chasis.
and i know the motor will just get dirty cause soon as its broke in it has a date with a mud pit. 8) kind of a shame thoe it has really nice carpet. ahh i will just take it out and put it in storage. and spray-line the inside
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but you will see pics tomorrow!
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ok ,am i the only one that NEVER puts valve ceals in a rebuild ? i have rebuilt many motors and never ever under any cirmstances put thoes stupid rubber things on the valves , and i have never had a motor smoke becouse i didnt . almost every motor ive taken apart the ceals are cracked and broken ,and the rebuilders i know , most of them old hotrodders ,told me to throw them away , anyone else ?
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IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEAL TO BOAR AND TAP A HEADBOLT 5MM LARGER THEN STOCK, AND REPLACE IT WITH ALL THREAD.
why not ? I thought that is what they made all thread for ;D
jason
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sounds cool, i wish i coudl get a 1.6 from somewhere and rebuild it all then swap out my old one and rebuild th eold one, that wau i always have a psare enigne, and also there woudl eb no downtime on the truck while re building
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sounds cool, i wish i coudl get  a 1.6 from somewhere and rebuild it all then swap out my old one and rebuild th eold one, that wau i always have a psare enigne, and also there woudl eb no downtime on the truck while re building
I'd like to do the same ... dam sami guys snap up 1.6 engines like lattes in seattle :)
Back on topic ... when I rebuild an engine, I always sort it through. Wear parts ALWAYS get replaced (valve guides, rings, bearings). I mean why do it twice ???.
I also figure after 120K+ it might be worth a bore (mic will say so). That adds pistons sure, but in these squirrel cages at least u only gotta get 4.
Now, your in for a penny, in for a pound ... get an isky cam, might as well spend a day or so polishing the head and intake ... thorley header only seems right ... slippery slope.
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Well i have pics, but i left the card at my house, i will post up some tomorrow, any way i got the head off the motor, its a burnt valve - 2 actually one on number 1 and one on #3 so its a head rebuild, suprisingly somone has had the motor apart recently, no excess wear or varnish in the block, the cross hatch and mic measurments are still really well, looks like somone did the botom of the motor, and slouched on the head, I will check all the parts, gota get a set of valves "think they are 3$ each, but the looks of the buttom, I dont think replaceing the parts is going to help it much. i mean the buttom is pretty clean, event on the dead cylindars. but i have only seen the upper of the buttom end the oil pan is still on, that comes off todday, but i herd it run and when you see the pics of the valves you will wonder why it held any pressure at all.
and i have a few mechanic budies, "they do it for a living, im justa geek- that likes getting dirty." but they tell me if every thing specs, just leave it. but i will check every thing inside with a mic today.
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Mythose
I would suggest painting the block a light color. I've often gone white or silver. The reason is simple, you can spot an oil leak sooner on a light color than a dark. It also makes it easier when you put it in or do in chassis work cause you're not working in a totally dark pit.
If you can find a way to do the 3 angle grind do it, it's typically only 50-75 bucks more and gets a little power and better wear. For gods sake put on new valve seals. Some one mentioned they have never put them on and not had a problem...I'm amazed, it only takes seconds and keeps the top end sealed, valve guides wear over time and the seals are what keeps thing tight down the road.
When you're fitting parts remember
- measure 3 times (all clearances)
- fit twice (to make sure its right
- assemble once
take your time and have fun
Zag
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that sux that it's the head, i'm sorry, I really thought it was the rings. It will be about the same to get her running again, right? sounds like its going quick, that is good ;D
ttyl
jason
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yeah its gona cost about the same. the head looks in good shape, just have to replace the valves and reseat them - man I feal about like you did while we pulled the motor, ears hurt like a SOB, headach and congestion!
lol the motor may get a little more attention today. its easy project - work on the other hand - my job is not simple and it is really hard when you feal like crap, but i have paid sick time so i may just take a day off to get the motor prety much done- but yeah a head is a lot more of a pain then rings. but the cross hatch on the combustion chamber is smooth and clean,
any way my head hurts!
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LOL its either 3 weeks and $30 for new exhaust valves, or 10 Per valve tomorow, the valves for the mustang were only 1.75 each. so i am just gona take the valves out of the head that has the all thread in it, and reseat them with new valve seals.
ahh i will list the spare parts after i get Both motors torn apart, i am going to scrap the old block and head from the motor with the chunck of all thread in it., if anyone wants them, let me know in the next 4 days, and you can have it fer what its worth at scrap price, but i am going to take all the parts out mic them if they are in good condition, things like oil and water pump, altinator. i am going to keep the rest I will give or sell for scrap yard prices. "internal engin parts" crank, rods-caps-pistons. cam i might keep - have my budy mill it for me for more power - but i would have to find out what to do to it. flywheel. the clutch is ok, not worth shipping but its not going in the trash ill keep it around "just in case" any way laa de da just want the zuk back on the road i wana go fishing!! and dont want to hike 2 miles up in the mountains!
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Well, went over there yester day and started tearing into the kik/ got down to take the head off, whoever worked on this motor is the stupidest SOB, and he should be beet with all of the tools he owns, and then have a 14mm piece of all thread inserted in his head ohh and then we should drill anouther hole in the side and put a screw in that hole to keep the all thread from moving.
!!!!!!!!!And that motor had just been build!!!!!!!!!
OK if you have no concept of the process, and no knowledge of how it works, or no mechanical abilities
!!!!!!!!TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!
or at least talk to somone that knows how it works, its like hay im gona go drill a big hole im my motor its just a piece of metal with spinning things in it wont hurt nothin, just drill a few holes in it!!!! OMFG stupid stupid fucking dumb stupid not ignorant, ignorant implyies that you have the ability to learn, this guy was STUPID lacking the ability to learn or comprehend simple princaples, kk i will put the soap box away now
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anyway for an update the old head is completly apart and the valves are soaking, i know no pics yet i will get them up here the only things done so far is take it all apart, that is simple enough, putting it back together and the things that are tricks that arnt in the book, there is where the detailed pics will come in. OH and LOTS OF EXAMPLES OF WHAT NOT TO DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES - unleas you want me to pop out of your closet and beet you with your mangled motor.
ok i get real touchy on the subject of SFP. AHHHHH i want to find this guy and smack him a few times!!!
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chill man
dont get so disgruntled about it the world is full of stupid people all you can do is try to stay away from them and hope that in breif encounters that their stupid doesent rub off on you ;D ;D
jason
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well Kids and digital cameras, i have been looking for my brand new Digi camera, for all week end I suspect it ended up falling subject to one of the kids and is lying in some puddel of Gue some where in one of there voids!!!
so pics are prolly lost for good, but I still have old motor and can go through the paces of what to do with pics, or i can walk anyone that need through its really complicated but really easy.
Anyway -- valves are ground, head is reasymbled, i put the head back on the block, riped the old motor out of the old kik,
Going to roll the chasis out today and wash off the undercarage, going to test compression today - after work. got the oil pan off and i would say the the motor was either verry well cared for, or rebuilt recently, within 10k but the head was left alone- so Almost done--
If we got the timing right and not 180 out -- job well done--
but wont know till we start it,-- hopfully tonight--
Thanks to Jason for help on getting me a good motor to build, little more work then I rember --- but ill be wheelin this weekend for sure---
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OK ALMOST DONE!!!
well here it is, its alot easer to put the motor in with 2 people! LOL and the tranny is reall light, i thought it would be alot heavyer,
oh and read the torque specs befor you start wrenching, on cluthch - flywheel you may get it over torque, which as long as it is evenly done and not striped, and done in the right sequence should not hurt any thing.
make sure you have the trany in a good reciveing alignment for the motor, it helps to disconnect the exhoust manifold from the downpipe, for room - make sure you have the clutch disc aligned, and then postion the motor, be carfull not to pinch any cables - wires - hoses in the process -
and it helps to remove the radiator - grill and front core - all take a 10MM socket and the 2, 1 on each end take a philips " these are close to the bumper in the fender wells"
so in a recap so far, find a motor if you can hear it DO SO- once you do find one, decide to run it like it is - or to work on it - i chose to fix it rather then pay 1k for a used motor
Next decide if the repairs required are within your abilities, budget, time frame. most internal engin repairs are not a weekend project. Lower end is easer to wrk with then the top end.
next aquire a cleen dry workspace - a garage or shop-
and take your path,
me i bought the parts a motor manual "for torque specs"
a galon of 10w-30 valvolien maxlife oil. and the parts for a tune up and started takeing it apart,
I forgot to postion at top dead center befor i started, which made re-timing really a pain in the but, however i am sure we got it right
Read up in the book about th epart of the motor you ware working on, the specifications, how to disasymble and reasymble, comonly replaced or worn parts. NUMBER EVERY PART TO GETHER!parts in a machien are milled whole and machiened to fit perfectly, get the wrong part in the wrong place, and bad news" when you get it all apart, Clean every little piece event the nuts and bolts, I like to clean the Out side of the block, paint it if you wish - MIC everything - check cleariances, now is a good time to clean the valve cover and the oil pan, also the motor is out so you can get to all of thoes little sensors and change them
once you have determined what you can replace, and what you can save - and everything is clean - start reasymbling, always use new gaskets and seals
once it is back together put it back in the kik, that is were i am at all i have to do is plug it in to the harnes and attach the throttle boddy, then put the fron clip back on, and its good to go.
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, 3 angle
 valve job ( more power, better wear)
The valve seats are ground 3 angle from the factory.
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Well here is the outcome of all of this work - blood and sweet
1 verry sore back
2 hands tha look a little like they have been in a knife fight
1 grin ear to ear,
150 LB compression in all 4 cylindars, crank and ingnition timing right on the first shoot, NO oil consumption, no leaks NO clatter, No chatter from the clutch,
and only one weerd noise, I think the motor mount on drivers side is a little loos, some times starting from a stop it makes a wierd noise - herd that on the way to work today ill fix it tonight , But she runs like a champ, keeping it tame for a while let the head and valve seals get settled in.
But it will drive all the way to work 55mph about 2500 - 3000 in fith up hill, and it would like to go a bit faster -maby thats just me- but I dont have to rev it high to get it to accelerate, starts to pull reall good about 2300rpm, the motor in the tracker would pull around 3000,
WELL WORTH THE EFFORT -