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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Evildead on November 14, 2006, 05:36:10 AM

Title: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 14, 2006, 05:36:10 AM
Hey, I did an SAS with a sammy axle up front.. running 31's and a locker.  I widened the samurai axle 5 1/4" and had the shaft lengthened and welded.  Dumb.  it broke, obviously.  How much does it run me to respline rear sammy/tracker axle shafts (what have you guys paid to have shafts resplined??)  and press them into the sammy birfs, and what tire size will they then handle?  (what size tire did it take for you guys to break a rear trackick axle shaft??)

I already have birfield rings, btw...  All I would need to do would be to swap a sammy rear carrier up front, with my lock-rite.   My max goal is 33's...!  I would consider toy's but I love the lightness and the ground clearance of a shaved sammy diff!!

BTW I am running Nissan 280zx coils on the modded 3-link rear and sammy front leafs up front on custom drop shackles.. flexes great- I can get one tire 2 feet on an object before it feels tippy...havn't maxed it out yet!!!

Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: ebewley on November 14, 2006, 08:37:57 AM
Hey, I did an SAS with a sammy axle up front.. running 31's and a locker.  I widened the samurai axle 5 1/4" and had the shaft lengthened and welded.  Dumb.  it broke, obviously.  How much does it run me to respline rear sammy/tracker axle shafts (what have you guys paid to have shafts resplined??)  and press them into the sammy birfs, and what tire size will they then handle?  (what size tire did it take for you guys to break a rear trackick axle shaft??)

I already have birfield rings, btw...  All I would need to do would be to swap a sammy rear carrier up front, with my lock-rite.   My max goal is 33's...!  I would consider toy's but I love the lightness and the ground clearance of a shaved sammy diff!!

BTW I am running Nissan 280zx coils on the modded 3-link rear and sammy front leafs up front on custom drop shackles.. flexes great- I can get one tire 2 feet on an object before it feels tippy...havn't maxed it out yet!!!



I'm not sure you can get there from here. 33's on the Samurai axle is pushing it on the Samurai and that vehicle weighs less. My two cents would be to revisit the Toyota axle idea or maybe a custom front end from Spidertrax.

-Eric
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: holeypockets on November 14, 2006, 09:01:15 AM
tim hardy ran 35s with i thind resplined rear shafts and subaru birfields,  another idea is newfields
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: ebewley on November 14, 2006, 09:35:31 AM
tim hardy ran 35s with i thind resplined rear shafts and subaru birfields,  another idea is newfields

Yep, did you dig into the details of how that was actually done? I think that would be enlightening.

-Eric
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 14, 2006, 01:50:51 PM
so tracker/sammy rear shafts with subaru birfs eh?  well, I do have sammy birf rings on it now....how samll does the shaft get where it presses into the birf though?  I will pull it today and see....!


Oh and I would love to hear about WHAT subaru the birfs are from... I keep hearing about this damn mod but NEVER SEE ANY DETAILS ARGH!!!!

:D
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: flexmonger on November 14, 2006, 10:27:38 PM
tim hardy ran 35s with i thind resplined rear shafts and subaru birfields,  another idea is newfields

Yep, did you dig into the details of how that was actually done? I think that would be enlightening.

-Eric

  As far it has been written in print he used the rear spiders up front and increased the shaft diameter along with the subaru birf upgrade.  The rear is a different matter, he used ford mustang spider gears remachined to increase the spline count.
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: tipover on November 15, 2006, 12:14:03 AM
I build my front shafts with Subaru with LAC 87 joints.  I cut the stub off both the samurai CV and the subaru.  I weld the Samurai stub to the Subaru joint.  The stock Sammy birf is a LAC 84 or 82... I cant remember but that is the measurement in Millimeters.  I respline the rear axles to match the birf.  Tim never showed me how he did it, but that is how I do it.  My freind has a set of the original welded double toughs and they were the same joint.  Cost for the joints are about 70.00 a piece and the respline is about 60 a piece my moser.  I heat treat them my self the old fashioned way.  Thats all folks...
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 15, 2006, 10:24:57 AM
you weld the sammy stub to the subaru birf????   But I already welded my axle, and it breaks!!!  i then had it welded by a machine shop... what am I missing???  Heat treating?  How??

So you use sammy rear shafts, sammy stubs, and subaru birfs??   Would it be easier to just use sammy rears and spline them to fit the sammy reinforced with rings birf??
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 15, 2006, 12:22:59 PM
Just talked to Brent at Trail tough... sammy axle up front looks grim indeed, unless I want to be going all custom shafts.  then when I break one, I will be a month waiting for a new shaft...    Plus mine has to be a custom length now... F&*&.  Add tot his that if I use the sammy rears and spline it down, it will have to be splined down to a 22 spline...  and because axles are case hardened I am looking at LOSING axle strength at the birf, so no gains again.  The only thing to do would be to use sammy rears shafts, sammy rear side gears, and trail tough larger 26 spline shaft made from 4340 chrome moly with a larger birfield...   Then I could run 31 - 33's okay I guess... but once I break a shaft, then it's custom work again.... 

Apparently the toyota mini truck axles are only 1" narrower than the front tracker, and the rear minis are 3" narrower.  So guys use a later model toyota axle, and the width is the same...  Think I got all that right....!!!   But then I have to get regeared axles, or use my dual t-case (kick with mated 4:16 sammy t-case), and fab some toy hi-steer...  plus then I have to shave them again...  not to mention new driveshafts.

ugh.

I need to do SOMETHING however, because the sammy welded axle just ain't friggin cutting it, even though I am STILL whupping EVERYONE on the trails, with my 31's and broken front axle shaft hahahahaha!!!


Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Amilla on November 15, 2006, 07:43:12 PM
the 86 and up toyota rears axles are 3 in wider than the 79-85 years.  most of the yota guys switch to the 86 rear and then use inch and a half wheel spacers in the front to widen there stance up.  my brother is in the process of doing it.  Why dont you just put the toyota front axle in? there wider, bigger stronger, and have a huge ammount of parts for them.  You wont loose that much clearance compared to a sammy axle, pluse you can shave down yota axles just the same.
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Amilla on November 15, 2006, 07:47:01 PM
forgot to add, you can flip the 3rd and use reverse rotataion gears to acheive a high pinion, which is pretty badass if i do say so my self.

millski
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 15, 2006, 10:00:37 PM
okay... i know this may be beating a dead horse, but that sammy axle held up fine to 33's on my sammy...  There is only a 200lb difference between the two, why not just cut down a sammy long side front shaft, respline the end to fit the birf and just run 31's until I can go FJ80 landcruiser with e-lockers??   

How much can an axle shaft be splined into before it moves past the point of "temper" and weakens it???  Is an axle shaft case hardened 1/4" from the outside?  1/8"??


I just don't want to run toy mini axles up front unless they are either EXACTLY the same or WIDER.  I HATE wheel spacers, and everyone who is doing toy minis up front in a sidekick seems to need spacers, although trail tough has one on their site that apparently doesn't..?
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: tipover on November 16, 2006, 12:20:06 AM
My welded birfs are just like TT used to do.  Always broke axles but never the weld on the birf.  Birf rings are a weak bandaid.  Check out Sky manufacturing for the widening kit for the toyota axle.  it uses part from an IFS and puts the wheel farther out... just another option
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 16, 2006, 02:27:26 AM
Yeahi've seen the widening kits... trouble is, it messes with your steering, making it harder to turn.  also, now more stress on the bearings, kingpins, etc...
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Amilla on November 16, 2006, 07:55:20 AM
You wouldnt have to use Wheel spaceers, put in a 79-85 front end (the 79-83 front axles are wearker than the 84-85's.  84-85's are more reinforced from the factory) then if you put a 79-85 rear end in, it will be the same size as the front end.  Im not sure where the diff is one a rear end of a track kick but if its off set you could do quite a bit of things there.  off set diffs on the axle, i know there is a toyota rear end made by sky that is off set for sammys not sure about anything else thou.

millski
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Skyhiranger on November 21, 2006, 07:39:10 AM
Oh and I would love to hear about WHAT subaru the birfs are from... I keep hearing about this damn mod but NEVER SEE ANY DETAILS ARGH!!!!

Not much more details....but maybe a little more info for ya.....
I was just reading a 4x4 mag this weekend (can't remember which one...but I know it was a 2006 issue) and it mentioned something about the subaru birfs that Hardy used (uses).  IIRC, they were from a later 70s/early 80s subaru with a turbo motor.  They didn't go into detail on how they are made to work in a samurai though.
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 21, 2006, 01:13:40 PM
well, I think it might have been a 70's subaru brat, and I heard whispers that it is done by cutting the cup of the birf and welding the sammy stub onto the subaru birf...  damned if i know what anyone means by that, and it sounds like a lot of frigging work.  Plus, I imagine it would need to be heat treated afterwards...  something I should have done for my welded axle shaft but didn't...

Something else I have been looking into is just running 31's (it does PHENOMENAL, even with a busted shaft!!!-matches jeeps with dual lockers and 35's) and getting a new shaft made, 22 spline, but longer (20 1/4" long) and having it tougher than the rest of the stock front axle parts, so if anything blows, it won't be my custom shaft.

So far NO ONE has been able to make it for me. I've sent letters to Superior, Currie, Trail Tough, Axle System, Dutchman, Currie, Strange...


One idea that Axle system had was to take a long side shaft and cut it, then heat and press fit it together to the new shorter length inside of a 1/4" wall tube, then weld.  They've done it before and it holds... Only problem is my seal area right?  :D   I would have to machine it bigger and get a seal plate to bolt in there ha ha :shaking:   Then the shaft would go in first, followed by the seal, and THEN whack that birf on... Oh lord... :barf:


I would frigging LOVE to find SOMEONE who could make me a custom length sammy shaft.  End all my troubles.

In 2-3 years, I go landcruiser.  :mad3:

Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: tipover on November 21, 2006, 07:14:36 PM
dutchman makes them for me from the rears.  why wont they do it?
Title: Re: samurai axle up front on trackick
Post by: Evildead on November 21, 2006, 07:19:27 PM
W
T
F
??????

I'm giving them another call.....!!! 

I maaaay have missed Dutchman during my emailing spree....

How much do they charge?? What am I looking at for a ballpark??  I am almost at the point of using rear sammy shafts and milling and pressing on u-joints instead of birfs just so I can get a frigging axle!!!