ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Digger on December 31, 2004, 06:34:06 PM
Title: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Digger on December 31, 2004, 06:34:06 PM
Anyone here ever heard of or even done a swap like this?: My friend came up with this idea tonight to get my seized sammy running. He's got an Iron Duke engine, complete with wiring harnes and computer. We're thinking about seeing if it will go into the sammy without too much trouble. For those unfamiliar with the Iron Duke engine, it's a 2.5L 4cyl Fuel injected chevy engine. Right now, this particular engine is lurking under the hood of a mid eighties 2wd S-10 that got crunched by a loaded school bus... Anyone done such a swap or have any useful input about it? Should give me more power than a 16 valve tracker swap with similar size and weight...
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: mesjr2004 on December 31, 2004, 06:45:48 PM
thoes motors are bomb proof! and have a bunch of tork thought of doing that one myself it probably wouldnt be too bad of a swap since sammys have a divorced transfer case mite have to shorten the intermediat shaft and tdapt yoke to it .feul pump,hydrolic clutch,and other stuff,but it would be worth persueing
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Digger on December 31, 2004, 06:53:11 PM
Well, first we are going to get the two vehicles closer to eachother(they are about an hour apart right now) and see if we can make a plate to adapt the engine to the sammy's transmission. If that wont work, then we'll see about swapping over the transmission out of the s-10, but it's an auto and I would prefer to keep the stick. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics if we do go ahead with the swap so maybe someone else can benefit...
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: HotRod on December 31, 2004, 06:56:26 PM
I,myself, aint herd of this version of Iron Duke. SO good Luck and happy new year with your project.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: zookiemike on December 31, 2004, 09:48:58 PM
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: JasonPugh on January 01, 2005, 01:20:07 AM
I currently have a Sammy in my back yard that is halfway through this swap. I ran out of time and just bought a new Zuk to play with. It can be done, but you will need a SPOA lift and you will have to get creative with the radiator as the 2.5 is fairly long for the Suzuki engine bay. I am using the S-10 version of the T-5 and hand to do some major work on the tranny tunnel. The trans is also long and pretty much eliminates the intermediate drive shaft.
This being said the swap is possible and I still think that motor would rock in a Zuk. I can prolly grab some pics later today if your interested.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: trackinstile on January 01, 2005, 12:16:16 PM
Man, that engine has been around as long as the hills. They're bullit proof, in fact, I know of a number of them that have gone over 200,000 miles and still running strong. I believe Mercury outboards (no relation to Ford) used them for some inboard/outboard units as well. Nice torque, easy to get parts, sounds like it's going to be a blast when you're done. Have fun, Dave ;D
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Digger on January 01, 2005, 11:29:13 PM
Jason, since you're using the S-10 tranny, tell me, did you have to move the transfer case at all or did you just link the tranny right to the transfer case? Pics might be helpful, especially since I'm still trying to convince my chief fabricator/partner in crime to help me do this swap! LOL!
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: MUTANT_ZUK on January 02, 2005, 12:06:01 AM
Engine swaps can be a interesting endeaver! I run a 2.0 over head cam Datsun/Nissan in mine with the 5 speed manual.I've got some pics of the build up at this link http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/608562 MUTATING is fun! good luck on your project. ;D M.Z.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Cwkick on January 02, 2005, 02:36:17 AM
The Iron Duke is a Pontiac engine. I think GM started building them in 1982. They used them in everything. They have the simplest TBI on the planet. Jeep used them on some of the CJ's and AMC Eagles with carbs on them. I had a Fiero with one in it. S-10's, Cavaliers, Sunbirds, Camaros/Firebirds, Citations, Celeberties, the list goes one. They are called Iron Dukes because they have cast iron blocks and heads. There isn't much you can do to damage these engines.
Cwkick
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: JasonPugh on January 02, 2005, 03:11:22 AM
The transfer case was in the stock location,but I had to completely eliminate the intermediate shaft. I took the slip yoke from the S-10, cut it short, and welded a flange that bolts up to the sammy t-case. To do this you need to tie the t-case and transmission together as one solid piece. I have since abandoned this project and started using it for pieces, but I will try to take some pics today.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Digger on January 02, 2005, 02:12:10 PM
I'm not sure I can explain why, but I would prefer to keep the sammy's 5 speed tranny as opposed to swapping in the S-10's auto, but if I have to swap the tranny I will. A manual is all I've driven off road and I really like the engine control afforded by it, even though I know using an auto would be easier to drive...
Jason, why did you give up on it? Get back to work on it and get it going! Also, why did you have to tie the tranny and t-case together? couldn't you just make sure they are both mounted securely to cross members?
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: JasonPugh on January 03, 2005, 04:00:07 AM
Ok, Here are some pics. It is surprising how much junk can collect around a 4 year old project.
Pic from the front, grill is removed to ease fitment of the motor.
Pic from above. After looking at the project again I realize that there is more room than I thought to slide the engine fore and aft. If you slid it all the way back it would be possible to fit a radiator up front. (http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/grabberman/XMas_2004_003.jpg)
Now some clearance issues: the next pic is from the front looking up to the hood with the hood closed. something is going to have to be done with the thermostat housing. The good news is that because this motor was used in so many applications I am sure that there is a factory option out there somewhere. (http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/grabberman/XMas_2004_005.jpg)
And here is a pick showing oilpan to diff clearence. This problem will be less of an issue if you move the motor all the way back. (http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/grabberman/XMas_2004_004.jpg)
Finally here is a pic of the S-10 power steering box mounted. This looks like it would work great. (http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/grabberman/XMas_2004_002.jpg)
After looking at the project again it seems like it would work well with a few small changes. I don't think I would use the T-5 that I currently have in there as it is too long. I would try for a shorter chevy transmission instead, or adapt the sammy one.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: JasonPugh on January 03, 2005, 04:08:27 AM
Quote
Jason, why did you give up on it? Get back to work on it and get it going! Also, why did you have to tie the tranny and t-case together? couldn't you just make sure they are both mounted securely to cross members?
I ran out of time to finish the job. I have a 120 year old house that we are totally gutting and remodeling while we live there (it sucks!!!!)
I tied the t-case and tranny together because I removed all the U-joints from the shaft. There really isn't a shaft anymore, just a coupler. Any movement between the 2 gearboxes would spell troubble.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: JasonPugh on January 07, 2005, 01:56:07 PM
So I'm curious, are you guys still thinking about this swap? I'd like to see someone pull it off...
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: Natebert on January 08, 2005, 03:46:18 AM
I had two of these motors and both times blew them up on the #3 connecting rod.
The first one I hydro locked and blew a connecting rod through oil pan and stabbed the side of the block. It had about 40k on it.
The second one. (A crate motor this time) did the same thing, connecting rod but it only happened while climbing a hill after ~30k miles.
I loved the motor up until then. Good luck
~Nate
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: real_red_wagon on January 08, 2005, 04:20:53 AM
I don't remember the horsepower and torque specs on this mill but I know they aren't much higher than a 16v plus this motor weighs a ton in comparison to a 16v :o I don't see the benifit ???
and I'm not usually a naysayer like this :D
whatever you do Make It Hert!!! ;D
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: LawDog on January 09, 2005, 07:40:05 AM
Especially after seeing Jason's pic, that's a big chunk of motor! Natebert's right, they can break. But they do produce a bit of torque as they were the motor offered in Chevy's 4WD 4cyl blazer. And weren't they in the 4cyl 80's Camaros too. Not that thay makes them fast, my dad had a Celebrity with one in it and it didn't move. But you'd need some x-tra torque to move the bigger vehicle. I guess the project has it's ups and downs.
Title: Re: Iron Duke Sammy Swap?
Post by: ppltrak on January 09, 2005, 04:23:29 PM
The Iron Duke is a true piece of shit I work on them all the time, if it's the dist. its the f/i . I wouldn't put that eng. in my lawnmower. If you want to put something worth a shit put a quad fore it is light and also can put out the ponies you want