ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zaggy on May 25, 2005, 03:55:53 AM
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We started a thread on this last week when we got hacked.
I was wondering if there is any interest in keeping it going?
I've started looking into doing the conversion
seriously after all the great info the members
brought forward.
My plan is to:
- Build adapter plate to mate 2.0 and kick 5 speed
- Custom flywheel to suit application using kick clutch
assembly.
- Custom mounts etc.
- Custom injection (mega squirt or similar)
- Crank fire ignition (like I have on the airboat)
I want to:
- keep trans t/case etc all in stock position
- Not cut exsisting harness
- Keep install as easy as possible (I hate wiring)
- Get 135-150hp
Already have an engine I was saving for another project.
Any other thoughts or insight out there?
Zag
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Only one thought, make a good write up of it, maybe with some drawings of the adapter, so that I can copy you ;)
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talk to Eric(the moderator) about doing a write up and take tons of pics(even of the stupid little things).  we are searching for a 2.0 to drop into my mud truck that is way underpowered and high geared.
stu
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From what has been said in the past the 2ltr will mate up to the 1.6 transmission but you need to machine the 1.6 flywheel to fit the 2.0 crankshaft. I don't know what you mean by crank fire ignition, is that some sort of magneto?
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Thanks Rhinoman
I've just eyeballed to this point but the 2.0l Sure doesn't look like a bolt up but I won't be sure till I get a trans to try it on.
For the airboat I needed to eliminate the dist and the gear drive to make clearance for the prop drive. So I had to come up with a ignition system. The system I came up with was an adaptation of a GM system. I use a GM DIS coil pack and crank trigger with a custom mounting plate (mounts where the p/s bracket goes) to hold the crank trigger. The front harmonic balancer is machined with 7 trigger holes to activate the crank trigger. The trigger activates the module, the module triggers the spark plugs.
Now double the whole system so you have 2 fully redundant ignition systems that fire the spark plugs.
Easy to say but took a year of research and design to get it to work properly. I wanted the dual system to make sure I had a git home mode and if I work up the nerve to put it on the airplane. The whole engine is built with that attitude. (2) ignitions, (2) Carbs, (2) Fuel delivery systems...anything there is only one of has a 100% safety factor built in. The math has been killer.
Now if I can just find that last 500-1000rpm
Zag
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Afew things i have picked with regards to the 2.0 into 1.6 conversion from talking to a couple of people.
The 1.6 and 2.0 have the same mounting points for block to transmission.
You will need to fab custom mounts as the 2.0/1.8 Kick had a chassis 60mm wider.
If you are using an auto you will need the torque converter and flex plate from the 2.0 and the 2.0 has an 8 bolt crank that will require machining and shimming to mate up.
Here's the link to an install in a Sammy
http://members.cox.net/aftermarket4x4/2liter.html
Contact Brent a call at Trail Tough as he does the kit for the Sammi and is pretty helpful.
http://www.trailtough.com/
The J20A engine has had slight variations in its output
94kW |removethispart|@ 6000rpm, 174NM |removethispart|@ 2900rpm
94kW |removethispart|@ 5900rpm, 174Nm |removethispart|@ 4300rpm
97kW |removethispart|@ 6000rpm, 166Nm |removethispart|@3000rpm
103kW |removethispart|@ 6000rpm, 193Nm |removethispart|@ 4000rpm (Japanese Market)
Bore x Stroke: 84mm x 90mm
Capacity: 1995cc
Comp. ratio: 9.3:1
Given these specs it's it's not so much a high revver as a torquer. Have a look here at a graph.
http://daniels.lumena.com/suzuki/Images/J20_1.jpg
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Thanks for the input CJ
I just had a 93 Tracker come in to be dissmantled in our shop so I will confirm things tommorow night with reguard to measurements. Sure would be nice if it bolts up. Also thanks for the links they have been really helpful.
Thanks Zag
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Thanks for all the input everyone
  Well I can now confirm that the engine and trans will physically bolt together, we compared and mated them up last night.
  The next step is flywheels and clutches. The goal is to use the 1.6/16v flywheel (modified) and stock clutch.
I'll let you know how the measuring goes.
Problems expected in this phase...
1) Pilot bearing.
2) Flywheel spacing.
3) May need to step to aftermarket clutch due to power
increase.
Zag
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Another update
Met with my machinist freind last night at the shop.
We measured up the 2.0L flywheel and the 1.6L flywheel. He doesn't think it's practical to modify the 1.6 safely to the 2.0L so he's going to machine a new flywheel for me (for a price) tomate the 2 together.
It will use the 1.6 cltch/ pressure plate and ring gear but fit the 2.0. Also measured up the backs of the cranks and spent some time in the catolouges and found a pilot bearing that will work.
It's going to take a few weeks before the flywheel is ready so I'm going to move on to other projects for a bit.
Next Phase
- What to do with injection?
- What to do with exhaust?
- Start figuring out how to adapt p/s.
It will be awhile before another update on this project.
Till then
Zag
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Yes it can be done.. heres is a pick we machined the 1.6 flywheel. and have a new input bearing, although a bronze bushing would be cheaper. this is a 2.0 mated to a 1.6 bell and we mounted the toy be hind it instead of the 1.6 trans. Be more then willing to answer ?? if you have any just give me a call.
874-544-1823
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/rock4x/4X%20product/RingR2.jpg)
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Wow neat set up and that must have been a pile of machine work.
My machinist was worried there wouldn't be enough meat to make the transition and felt it was just as easy to do the whole flywheel....but.
What are you using for a clutch and I'd be curious to know why you went with the Toyota trans? Your set up looks alot tougher than stock. My idea is to keep it as close to stock as possible to make for the easiest possible conversion. But I sure appreciate the effort and expertice that has gone into your set up.
Zag
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Wow neat set up and that must have been a pile of machine work.
  My machinist was worried there wouldn't be enough meat to make the transition and felt it was just as easy to do the whole flywheel....but.
  What are you using for a clutch and I'd be curious to know why you went with the Toyota trans? Your set up looks alot tougher than stock. My idea is to keep it as close to stock as possible to make for the easiest possible conversion. But I sure appreciate the effort and expertice that has gone into your set up.
Zag
link: http://www.users.qwest.net/~salto/SOS.htm
stu
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Wow neat set up and that must have been a pile of machine work.
  My machinist was worried there wouldn't be enough meat to make the transition and felt it was just as easy to do the whole flywheel....but.
  What are you using for a clutch and I'd be curious to know why you went with the Toyota trans? Your set up looks alot tougher than stock. My idea is to keep it as close to stock as possible to make for the easiest possible conversion. But I sure appreciate the effort and expertice that has gone into your set up.
Zag
For what you want to do the only machine work is to the 1.6 Flywheel. You can not use the 2.0 the diameter is to large and the bell wont fit over it. We are the U.S Distributor for the RingR and for Our application we used it with the Toy trans. All parts are readily avail.
As far as machine work to the flywheel yes there is plenty of meat to work with.  you have to open the surface area to fit the crank and and drop 8 hole sinto the flywheel. couple hrs total from the time you set up the jig for the FW on the mill. Also you use all stcok 1.6 clutch parts for your setup.
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did i miss it, what is this 2.0 out of? :-/
pleas keep a parts list with #s, like the pilot bearing ;)
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Hi Guys
Well over the weekend we accomplished a few things.
Test fitted the engine with the custom made
flywheel (was supposed to take 2 weeks but my
buddy the machist ran out of work so punched it
through), pilot bearing, a used clutch assembly that
was lying around the shop with the transmission.
Everything fits straight and true, clutch seems to work
fine. So all those hard parts fit and seems to work
together.
By the way I am keeping a parts list with part numbers and applications. I am also keeping careful notes on how we did it in detail.
Once it's up running and proves to work well I will find a way to post the details or make them available some how. In the mean time I intend to give updates as we make progress.
The engine is from a 2000 Tracker and requires rebuilding. (cam chain thrown by lack of maint by previous owner). The intent is to get everything fitted and working before building the engine. That way everything is worked out before I take my wifes vehicle out of service.
The next step is mounts and accessories, I've got a rolled kick at my business that already has the engine/trans pulled that I will use to contruct the engine mounts, p/s mounts etc and test fit. Till then....
Zag
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Zag,
Does the 2.0l have a removable bellhousing like the 1.6l? I am thinking that if it does it may bolt to the 1.6l gearbox and that way you can retain the 2.0l flywheel and gain more torque from the extra weight and not have to spend lots of money on custom flywheels. :)
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I think the problem is that the 2ltr is a hydraulic clutch and the 1.6 cable operated.
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That's right they are hydraulic, but that would mean mounting the 2.0l clutch master cylinder on the fire wall, or adapting the cable to where the slave cylinder mounts.  Both of these sound cheaper then a custom flywheel.  My 2 cents  :)
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The nice part is that I don't think there is any great advantage to the additional weight of the 2.0L flywheel.
It gives you a little more momentum but no additional torque.
Using the modified 1.6 flywheel with the heavy clutches available for the 1.6 there should be no problem with a reliatively stock engine. Using the 1.6 flywheel modified is alot easier than going through all the other mods to install the 2.0l trans. with it's hydralic clutch system.
Remember my goal is to make this as easy as possible.
Zag
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Zag,
Does the 2.0l have a removable bellhousing like the 1.6l? I am thinking that if it does it may bolt to the 1.6l gearbox and that way you can retain the 2.0l flywheel and gain more torque from the extra weight and not have to spend lots of money on custom flywheels. :)
The 2 bellhousings have different patterns at the gear box. We are looking into an adapter.
the hard parts needed are  the 1.6 Bell, and complete clutch kit anong with the machined Flywheel. For the 1.6 trans we machined a pilot bushing for the Toy trans we purchaced a bearing from a  bearing supply house $54. OUCH. We may machine a bushing for that one also.
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Sorry
No updates yet I'm really buried at work. Hope to get some stuff done over the weekend.
Zag
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Finally getting projects caught up.....
The 1.6/8v is finished and installed on to my airplane
(see pics of zaggy's engine for the airboat tests) and we will start flight testss right away.
I finished a major volunteer project at the Alberta Aviation Museum
And will be restarting this swap on the weekend, sorry for the delays guys
Zag
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And will be restarting this swap on the weekend, sorry for the delays guys
I reject your apology ... work harder!
(maybe this post will inject 11 pages of "drama")
(j/k)
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Heeey Sno Falls
You funny
Zag