ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: bentparts on February 10, 2007, 01:03:37 PM
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??? Anyone know the difference between the Calmini 2" and 3" control arms for Trackicks? I'm considering purchasing the 2" kit to get the diff drop brackets and the control arms to use with my OME struts, shocks and springs. I'll probably sell off the leftovers (Calmini shocks, struts and springs, extensions,etc.) I'll add a small spacer to the front spring to get back up to 2.5 inch lift. I want the Calmini arms to correct my steering geometry. (better wheel centering in fenderwell and correct castor.) I'ts just a pita that they won't sell individual parts, I bet they would sell a sh%*load of 'em.
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I wish another company would make a set of control arms similar to calmini's. I think it's really the best part of their lift.
The difference is, the 2" arm has the 2" lift built into it and uses the stock spring, where the 3" doesn't, and uses a longer spring.
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I forgot to mention, ARB is sending me a new set of their 540lb front springs (heavy load) to replace the sagging set I'm using now. They're being pretty cool about giving me a set under warrenty and just having me pay shipping and a small pro rate fee, considering I bought them in a kit from Rocky Road. I want to continue using the OME components because the ride quality is pretty damn good. Everything I've read about Calmini's springs and shocks pretty much says their "kinda" stiff. For the 1/2 " difference in lift I'll stick with OME. I really want the control arms and drop brackets though. Damn, they can difficult.
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Check this out: http://www.4xfourart.com/eng.asp
It's about a copy of calmini parts and you can get individual pieces if you like. The quality is not equivallent to calmini though.
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the 2" and 3" a-arms are slightly different. Seems the coil mount is in slightly different spot on 2" arms. not sure why though.
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??? Thanks for the info Chet. I wonder what shipping would cost from Turkey? I bet that would be cheap to New Jersey HAHA! I'm not sure what the Turkish currency is , could that be Euro's? It's weird, but the price for one control arm is less than the bushings if I read correctly!Maybe I can get my buddy stationed in Iraq to get them for me, he's a hellova lot closer!
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Appreciate it Vit-A-Jim! The parts don't look bad really. Too bad there so far away.
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:D WOW! I just did a conversion to usd from Turkish lira, and that stuff is pretty inexpensive. I sent them an email, if they ship to the US I may go for it.
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What was the conversion rate? and please let us know when you hear back from them on shipping and such. Thanks in advance
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I just used a conversion site I googled. It came out to the whole 3" lift kit being about $640 US. If I bought just the stuff I wanted; control arms w/ spring cups,drop brackets, left and right trailing arms, rear upper arm and link, driveshaft spacer, and the bushing set for everything, comes to about $240 US. Even if shipping were $100 it's still a bargain, depending on the quality. I'm defininitly considering it.
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I emailed them about 1.5 years ago looking to get exactly the same parts as you and i never got a response. I only tried once though. Post up if you hear back though. I'd be willing to try them out too.
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REMEMBER CALMINI STANDS BEHIND THERE PRODUCT. JUST BECAUSE THERE CHEAPER DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM DO YOU REALY THINK YOU'LL GET YOUR
MONEY BACK. DON'T THINK SO
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I emailed them about 1.5 years ago looking to get exactly the same parts as you and i never got a response. I only tried once though. Post up if you hear back though. I'd be willing to try them out too.
The guy doesn't speak english so he gets a friend to translate the emails so it takes some time. The delays got so frustrating I gave up. He also doesn't do credit card, the money needs to deposited in his account first.
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THERE'S AN OLD OLD SAYING "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" .SOMETHING TO REMEMBER.
WE DON'T WANT TO HERE YOU PISS AND MOAN LATER
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I know the saying quite well Ross. I have several Calmini products on my rig now and am quite happy with their quality, other than their "powdercoating." The issue here is CHOICE. When the only game in town refuses to even entertain the requests of MANY new prospective customers, and MANY current customers, they, the customer, have no choice but to look elsewhere. I have no desire to reach out halfway around the world to get a part I need, but I will if it means not wasting money on parts I DON'T need or want. Calmini Should offer us a CHOICE. I DON'T NEED THEIR SPRINGS OR SHOCKS OR STRUTS. I understand their may be other issues that I'm not aware of such as liaibility? that prevent them from selling the components seperately, but I would like to get a straight answer from THEM. Sounds to me like I'm not the only one who would like to buy these parts seperatly. How about it Calmini, Would you like to chime in? And Ross, this is an open forum. if you don't want to hear any pissing and moaning, TUNE OUT.
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;) One more thing Ross, unless you want people to continue to think your talking AT them instead of to them, lay off the caps lock.
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He also doesn't do credit card, the money needs to deposited in his account first.
I was going to get some bits off them at one time but that put me off. With the credit card at least I would have some come back.
If you get the A arms you will need the diff drop brackets as well or the driveshafts will too short.
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You know i wouldn't expect Trail Tough to sell any part of their SAS kit separately right now, since it is new, and it's all designed to work with the other components they make with it.
BUT, i would expect that since calmini has been selling these for years now, and we all know that you can use some of their parts with other brands of parts, you would think they'd start selling the parts individually.
How many people do you see these days with the following assortment of parts on their trucks:
Shrockworks front bumper, 2" coil spacers, OME struts, Pro comp rear shocks, ARB front locker, lock rite rear locker, viair compressor, home made snorkel with safari snorkel air ram up top, shrockworks sliders with trail tough rear bumper.
Imagine if those companies only sold their parts in complete kits, like calmini. You wouldn't get all the choices of what exactly you wanted to put on your vehicle. (did you notice how mixed i made the parts, and yet, it's completely possible to do all that)
It all seems very strange to me that calmini makes other parts in bits and pieces to be sold separately (like their exhaust parts), but yet they won't break up the suspension.
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:D WOW! I just did a conversion to usd from Turkish lira, and that stuff is pretty inexpensive. I sent them an email, if they ship to the US I may go for it.
Okay, I was LURKING, but have to chime in.
This is a foreign company that is producing a KNOCK-OFF of the Calmini system, and a poor knock-off at that, as the geometery is wrong.
You might take this wrong, and if so, good. HOW UN-AMERICAN TO BUY PIRATED GOODS FROM A FOREIGN COMPANY?!?! >:( >:( >:(
This is wrong on several levels. If you want bits, buy the kit and you can buy replacements for any thing Calmini sells. Call Skyjacker and try to buy half the system. Simple business savy will tell you what it is what it is.
To think you'd short the american people by buying knock-off crap so you can save a few bucks. Really sad.
If you didn't know it was a knock off (which would surprise me since anyone could notice who they are copying), then now you do. Proceed with the sale and you're pretty un-American.
Enuff said. I remain...
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Yeah, I think that even if I did get a response from them, which seems unlikely, I would be leery of transferring funds with no recourse either. Did Anyone actually hear back from them? A bit of an update: I spoke with a helpful sales rep at Calmini and they agreed to sell their 3" lift kit without the shocks and struts. The difference in price would only be $100 less. I bet If you had to order replacement shocks and struts(which they do offer)it would be a bunch more than $100.The 3" lift kits are on back order for 4 or more weeks due to their "popularity."
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Just a thought.
Can anyone confirm if all of the Calmini lift parts are in fact made in the USA or not? Their backorder wait time is representative of sea freight shipping delays (like from china or taiwan).
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Wow Yankee Tim, tell us how you really feel. How do you know the geometry is wrong? Do you have any personal experience with these products? BTW, I've spent over 8 years in military service of this country, defending MY freedom and Yours. Watch who your calling un American. I'll spend my money wherever I damn well please. And as for taking money from the American people, just how ignorant can you be? I'd guess that at least half of Calmini's products are assembled across the border in Mexico, as are most of the products we consume as Americans. Maybe I should sell the Suzuki and buy an American truck. Wait a minute, there isn't an " American" built vechile that is completely built from American parts. Mexico, Japan, Canada, Spain, Korea, Germany, Italy and China all contribute parts to "American" built stuff. You might want to re-think your narrow minded view of the world before you go off on another rant.
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mostly all of calmini parts are made in house. as for time if they are running a arm parts ,you can't exspeci them to stop and make one other part just for you. it's not practicle.
i ran a weld shop for 20 years and there product is superb.
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:D WOW! I just did a conversion to usd from Turkish lira, and that stuff is pretty inexpensive. I sent them an email, if they ship to the US I may go for it.
Okay, I was LURKING, but have to chime in.
This is a foreign company that is producing a KNOCK-OFF of the Calmini system, and a poor knock-off at that, as the geometery is wrong.
You might take this wrong, and if so, good. HOW UN-AMERICAN TO BUY PIRATED GOODS FROM A FOREIGN COMPANY?!?! >:( >:( >:(
This is wrong on several levels. If you want bits, buy the kit and you can buy replacements for any thing Calmini sells. Call Skyjacker and try to buy half the system. Simple business savy will tell you what it is what it is.
To think you'd short the american people by buying knock-off crap so you can save a few bucks. Really sad.
If you didn't know it was a knock off (which would surprise me since anyone could notice who they are copying), then now you do. Proceed with the sale and you're pretty un-American.
Enuff said. I remain...
Hey moron. You riding around in a suzuki??? You wanna tell people how to spend their money eh? I know if someone tried telling me what to do with my money I'd knock 'em in the teeth.
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OK, lets get this straight. I have Calmini products. They are good quality. Their customer service has been good to me in the past. This is not the issue. Most everyone who frequents this or any other Suzuki forum knows Calmini's springs are stiff, too say the least and their shocks and struts are generic at best. I'd be willing to bet money they don't actually manufacture their own shocks and struts, just buy whatever from whomever. Same with the springs. The quality of their manufactured suspension components is without debate, good. We all know it. We want it. And once again, the fact that I stated that the kits are on back order is neither a dig at Calmini, nor a criticism of their business practices. It was a simple statement of fact. Jeez, lighten the f*#% up people.
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if this 4xfourart.com cant speek english then why can they have a website in english.
Has anyone gotten a reply yet. i would kinda like to order one
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No.
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Wow Yankee Tim, tell us how you really feel.
I usually don't mince words. And right now I feel nervous as I'm getting remarried tomorrow. :-\
How do you know the geometry is wrong? Do you have any personal experience with these products?
Second hand, yes. I know a special "someone" who bought the kit and did so for a very particular reason. Side by side it's a copy, but poorly reversed engineered. Specs aren't the same and poor constuction quality compared to the patented US-made original. International trade laws are a murky and expensive area, and fighting the good fight might not be worth it in the long run
BTW, I've spent over 8 years in military service of this country, defending MY freedom and Yours.
And I appreciate that very much, as any one who has served our nation. Protecting freedoms is paramount to being a good American. And one of those freedoms was the ability to express consideration that another's actions may be counter to the nation's interests.
Watch who your calling un American.
I'll think what I want to think about others and their actions. A good american can do un-american things, many times without even knowing it. We're not talking buying Chevy vs. Toyota here. This is no different than buying knock-off Oakleys at a flea market. One may know it's not the real thing, may know the original patented version if made in the US, but one buys it because it saves them money, not considering the repercussions.
I'll spend my money wherever I damn well please.
As you have a right to. As should anyone, regardless of who that purchase may or may not effect. It's the moral implications of the purchase that can trouble some.
And as for taking money from the American people, just how ignorant can you be?
Let's see, hmmmm, if I try real hard, I *could* be pretty ignorant. Almost as ignorant as someone who didn't find piracy objectionable.
I'd guess that at least half of Calmini's products are assembled across the border in Mexico,
Good guess, but completely wrong.
as are most of the products we consume as Americans.
Much better guess, but still wrong. We buy most of our crap from China now. Seems many US businesses don't care for their own country. Even ATV's that are pirated from Yamaha Motor Company USA come from China
Http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Nov_18/ai_n15860374 (http://Http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Nov_18/ai_n15860374)
Funny how a company selling pirated goods in the US runs by the name "Patriot".
Maybe I should sell the Suzuki and buy an American truck.
Why? Did Suzuki pirate a US design? :P This is not even close to what I said or meant. If a Mexican company popped up selling Brent's "Trail Slayer" kit for less than Brent, then it would be the same. If a Chinese company was selling knock-off patented ARBs with parts that interchange, then it would be the same thing. If I bought a DVD at a flea market of the lastest movie that isn't even out yet, it would be the same thing. If Yamoto was set up to sell un-licensed Yamaha Raptor copies, it would be the same thing. (wait a minute, that did happen)
Wait a minute, there isn't an " American" built vechile that is completely built from American parts. Mexico, Japan, Canada, Spain, Korea, Germany, Italy and China all contribute parts to "American" built stuff.
True, but again, what you are talking about is global economics, not piracy. When China starts spitting out un-licensed carbon-copy Ford parts and sells them in the US, then it's a piracy issue (which may happen sooner than we think). http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007701220335 (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007701220335)
Fact is, if you want to help the US economy, buying a foreign built truck sold by Chevy results in more revenue for our government than a US-built truck sold by Toyota. www.howtobuyamerican (http://www.howtobuyamerican)
You might want to re-think your narrow minded view of the world before you go off on another rant.
Actually, its not very narrow at all. If anything, it's looking at the bigger picture.
Now, I knew my post was going to create sparks, but I'm not looking for a slugfest. That should be beneath us. I honestly don't think you knew it was a pirated suspension system. It looks new and exciting, and could serve your immediate needs. But now you do know. Hopefully, that may impact a decision to buy it or not. Don't forget, but from Turkistanbul thru an interpreter doesn't instill confidence.
As for the suspension, there are reasons they won't sell just a few parts. It's designed to work together, for one. Secondly, liability. But mostly, it's a business decision. Calmini is friggin huge now, and with their Full Traction line bing red hot, they are balls to the wall in production. I't s not the same small company it once was in the late 80's. They work in production runs and use a crystal ball to judge future demand. Sometimes they guess right, sometimes not. The last thing any company wants is to misjudge demand and end up with excess product on the shelf. The run will come up and the kits will be available again.
I know you want the a-arm to put the geometry back in line while using your OME set-up. But the Calmini struts are stock length, and they need to be. Calmini could have used the longer struts like OME sells, but didn;t for a reason. With the OME struts being longer, combined with the different geometery of the Calmini A-arms, it will put the CVs out of the degree of operability. This can cause more extension of the the control arm, allowing the CV to run at an angle that is weak and prone to breakage, as well as possible pulling apart from over-extension. Either of these two scenarios are most likely not what you intend to have happen. Can you run the Calmini front with stock struts? Yes, but they include them to make it complete, since most of these kits go onto used (and sometimes abused) trucks, new struts only make sense. The Calmini rear is competely different of a lift than OME has. With the redesigned upper mount, it eliminated the tear apart of the stock upper link which happens with a 3" lift. *Maybe* the OME shocks can be used back there, but I dunno.
Now, if you can save some flow by buying the Calmini kit, sans struts and shocks, that's cool and you're getting the real stuff. but take what I said about the OME struts seriously, or you could end up with breakage in some form, which no one wants. Even Calmini will tell you the same thing I did.
Lastly, there is no need for bad blood here. I shouldn't be flying off the handle about being un-american and all, and I apologize. I just couldn't help but feel irrate by the piracy issue, which many people ignore if it benefits them, not thinking of the ramifications of that decision. Doesn't matter who or what product it is, if it's a US product protected under patent, trademark and/or copyright laws, I really hate when foreign companies pull this crap and effect american jobs and commerce. Take WARN for example, the chinese are copying WARN winches verbatim under the names of Viper and Venom and Gorilla and such, and selling them for 1/4 the price. This is good if you want a Warn winch and don't want to pay a Warn price. This is bad for Warn though, as they are the innovators that developed those winches in the first place. Take away the profit motive, then the innovation goes away as well. Same could be said for Calmini.
Junk food for thought. Zook on.
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As for the suspension, there are reasons they won't sell just a few parts. It's designed to work together, for one. ..........
I know you want the a-arm to put the geometry back in line while using your OME set-up. But the Calmini struts are stock length, and they need to be. Calmini could have used the longer struts like OME sells, but didn;t for a reason. With the OME struts being longer, combined with the different geometery of the Calmini A-arms, it will put the CVs out of the degree of operability. This can cause more extension of the the control arm, allowing the CV to run at an angle that is weak and prone to breakage, as well as possible pulling apart from over-extension. Either of these two scenarios are most likely not what you intend to have happen. Can you run the Calmini front with stock struts? Yes, but they include them to make it completee, since most of these kits go onto used (and sometimes abused) trucks, new struts only make sense. The Calmini rear is competely different of a lift than OME has. With the redesigned upper mount, it eliminated the tear apart of the stock upper link which happens with a 3" lift. *Maybe* the OME shocks can be used back there, but I dunno.
Now, if you can save some flow by buying the Calmini kit, sans struts and shocks, that's cool and you're getting the real stuff. but take what I said about the OME struts seriously, or you could end up with breakage in some form, which no one wants. Even Calmini will tell you the same thing I did.
As you say the Calmini system is designed to work together.....on a particular setup. Not everyone runs a winch and winchbar and some have swb and some lwb etc. etc. The spring rates do not suit all applications and the struts and shocks supplied are certainly not the optimum. As for using OME struts, well I have run the Calmini system with the OME struts for quite some time now and I wouldn't run it any other way. Does it push the CV's limits? Yes but it still hasn't been a problem for me, maybe it's just the way I drive. For those who are concerned they could always use the OME struts without the supplied strut spacers or make up some shorter spacers or use Stan's Toy CV mod..
The Piracy issue is something else altogether but there is a market for just some parts from the kit and Calmini has made a business decision not to supply those parts separately so people will look for other solutions rightly or wrongly as is their right. I have also heard that the control arms are not as good as the Calmini arms.
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Calmini could have used the longer struts like OME sells, but didn;t for a reason. With the OME struts being longer, combined with the different geometery of the Calmini A-arms, it will put the CVs out of the degree of operability. This can cause more extension of the the control arm, allowing the CV to run at an angle that is weak and prone to breakage, as well as possible pulling apart from over-extension.
The Calmini 3" kit includes 2" strut spacers, with these the struts are effectively 1/2" longer than the OME struts. The CVs aren't an issue with the drop brackets fitted. Like I said before if you fit the drop arms then you will need the drop brackets or your shafts will be too short.
The geometry being wrong is an issue with the Calmini kit as well. Its an IFS problem more than anything else. Unless the weight on the nose is right then the camber is going to be wrong.
I did exchange several emails with the Turkish company. My centre diff bracket was lost when I moved house and Calmini wouldn't replace it because I bought the kit used and didn't have the original receipt. This was a couple of years ago and no one I knew of had dealt with the Turkish company. Like I said earlier I didn't go ahead with it because I didn't like the idea of a money transfer to an unknown company in a different country.
All this has come up before, a search of the board should get the details. IIRC someone here from Greece wheeled with a couple of people who had this kit. The specs are different. I've never seen one personally but you can see from the pics that the A arm is slightly different in design, particularly in the way the coil locates. Thats probably all it needs to avoid patent issues, AFAIK the design of a wishbone isn't patented so unless its identical and Calmini have actually patented their design then its just a wishbone.
I do agree with the comments about buying copied kit. It may be cheaper but most of the vendors out there are enthusiasts who support our hobby and work hard to bring us this stuff. However if they won't supply then people will look elsewhere - thats supply and demand.
I'm not American so buying from the US or buying from Turkey is all the same to me. I'd rather buy from an English company but there isn't one that makes a kit like this.
Yankee Tim drives a Zuk. His name might not be familiar to some of the newer members here but hes been around a good while. He's a Zuk enthusiast like the rest of us. Good luck with the wedding Tim.
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:)Yankee Tim, your argument is well thought out and so diplomaticly presented that i find it hard to refute, so I won't even try. Just as I would'nt buy stolen music, or dvd's, I would'nt knowingly buy these either if I knew they were knockoffs without some kind of renumeration for the originator. It seems you have an inside line at Calmini, but come on "a special someone," I'll need a little more than that. However, your point is taken on the piracy issue, and I agree and respect your position. Theft is theft. It's probably a moot point anyway as getting somthing shipped into the country from Turkey is about as likley as getting it shipped in from Iran. Considering the US is involved in a war right next door, I doubt it would happen. On all your other points your free to think any way you see fit. Your freedom to do so provided by all who served and serve in the armed forces of this country. I do resent being called un American, and I accept your apoligy. If my remarks were offensive I apoligize also. I guess none of us like being told how to spend our hard earned money. I have searched the archives thouroughly, and that's where I got the idea to do this. I'm not trying to correct the camber, I've already done that and it's reletivly easy. I'm trying to correct the castor, to provide more stability on the highway. With just lift springs and spacers you tend to loose some castor and the self centering ability that goes along with it. My Tracker is fine under 45 mph but it takes both hands at anything over that, especially if there are more than a little in the way of road irregularities. I'd just like it to be more stable at highway speeds. According to Calmini their a arms address this issue. The only other way to achieve this that i've seen is to do somthing like the Hagen widening and it does'nt really correct it , but it helps I hear. I am on the backorder waiting list for the Calmini kit, and have been, minus the shocks and struts. The springs I'll try since I already have all that extra weight on the front, but I also gave Steve at Boondox a call and he's getting me info on some specially wound springs that don't seem to sag when used with all the extra weight. The rear trailing arms should relocate the axle to the get back to correct wheelbase. Their center link heim joint affair doesn't really impress me. I've already made my own spacer for the rear diff mount, very much like wildgoodys. I intended to use the drop brackets all along if I was able to get them. If the Calminin kit stays on back order for months, I may end up doing the Hagen thing, make or modify my own trailing arms, and keep my money on my own damn pocket! Congrats Tim on getting remarried, I think.
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Gee guys, lighten up a little ::) . Nice to see you have made up though - sort of :)
bentparts - check your toe setting too. Factory is 0 - 4mm toe in. This can also cause your rig to bounce from side to side when you hit irregularities on the road. Try a little toe in.
I run Calmini 3" and GV lift kits - they deffinitely require a decent offset wheel to help put enough leverage on the springs to give a softer ride. I have confirmed this with actual experimentation and it makes a HUGE difference. I have found that the struts / rear dampers can be a little hard on compression when you are empty but are seem fine when your vehicle is loaded up. As with ANY suspension system though there is always an area that can be "fine tuned" to your personal preference and most of the time top of the line dampers gets you the results you are after.
Me - I will not hesistate to buy Calmini again ( and with our exchange rate each kit costs me aprox $1700 NZ :o , that is how impressed I am with their product ;D ).
Calmini - how the BEST rigs start life >:D ( well Kicks anyway ). Ask Mr Hagen ;)
ZeusZuki 8)
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The rear trailing arms should relocate the axle to the get back to correct wheelbase.
The Calmini rear arms are the same length as the stock arms. They're just a lot beefier and the design keeps them away from the rocks better.
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Hmmm, now you've got me thinking I don't really need the whole system ,which is what I thought in the begining. Aside from the added benefit of the stronger construction, there is no change in axle location? I thought that by lifting the rear 3+inches, you are for all intensive purposes swinging the axle down and forward since it pivots on the trailing arms, therby shortening the wheelbase by an inch or two. I though that the Calimini arms and center link compensated for this. Why would they then include a driveshaft spacer in their kit? OK, I guess I'm confused on how their rear suspension works other than lift and stronger and better shaped arms. It seems to me the real benefit in the Calmini system is in the front suspension and the diff drop links then. Then It looks like I can accomplish what I really want, which is to improve the stability of my straight line steering by performing something like the Hagen widening which does seem to offer the increase in camber and wheelbase correction I'm looking for. At one point diff drop brackets were available from Boondox, but there not available due to being "re-designed." I wonder if thats legal speak for patent infringement. I still think the addtion of the Calmini front arms coupled with the diff drop brackets would be a good mod though. Thanks for the input Rhinoman.
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I was rather surprised by the arms, I was expecting them to be longer. I'm a design engineer by trade and I like to know how everything works. I fitted each part of the kit individually comparing it with the original so I could understand how each bit affected the truck. When i did the rear I jacked the car up and left the tyres still touching the ground so the wheels and brakes would stop the axle from rotating when I undid the top mount. I had a lot of fun with that when I changed the diff!
I changed the lower arms first, expecting to have to move the axle back a bit to get the new arms to fit but they went straight in there so I compared the lengths
(http://www.rhinoman.org/rear arm.jpg)
After fitting them I removed the top arm, again it fitted straight on without any movement of the axle. The arms are difficult to compare because of the different top joint but they aren't much different. With the Calmini top diff bracket the 'spacer' is built in.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/top arm.jpg)
(http://www.rhinoman.org/top arm2.jpg)
Once they were fitted I dropped the axle to fit the rear springs, I very nearly didn't have enough room, the rear springs allow a lot of extra drop before they dislocate.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/rear springs.jpg)
(http://www.rhinoman.org/rear drop.jpg)
The prop spacer is needed because the standard prop would be too short at maximum drop. I ground back the bottom shock mounting to get clearance.
My kit was used and was supplied with Procomp shocks. I have some more photos somewhere, I jacked the rear axle up against the bumpstops and measured the clearance between spring mounts and between shock mounts. The stock bumpstops are nowhere near long enough. Calculating the compressed spring height the springs will be fully compressed before the bumpstop makes contact IIRC the bumpstop needs to be lowered about 2". The rear shock mount will need to be relocated too, this might not be the case with the Calmini shocks (if the bumpstops are lower) which I think are slightly shorter.
So theres a lot more drop but some of the up travel is lost, this isn't a big issue with large tyres as it allows a bit more clearance. I don't know if the stock rear ball joint would have sufficient travel to handle the extra travel if properly spaced. The Heim joint allows plenty of travel but is a bit exposed for mud driving. I did try to source a rubber boot for it but I could only find single sided boots like those used on the stock joint. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with the top arm since it was redesigned but it does seem quite flimsy compared to the original.
The bottom arms are well designed if you're driving on rocks, the arm is very strong and the main part is well tucked up. The arm curves down behind the tyre so it is lifted with it.
The really 'good stuff' does seem to be at the front. The A arms and diff drop brackets make a big difference. In the stock configuration the driveshaft is parallel to the ground with the wishbone against the bumpstop. The CV only uses the down part of its travel. The diff drop brackets pivot the diff as much as drop it. This brings the driveshaft outputs down and allows some of the CVs up travel to be used. The diff doesn't actually move down that much so little ground clearance is lost. The drawback is that the oil level filler is moved lower so you need to lift the front of the truck to ensure that you get enough oil in.
The A arms have been fairly well commented on but one of the advantages that isn't widely commented on is that the spring seat is at a much better angle than with the stock arms. The spacers give an additional 2" of strut movement. Their isn't a lot more travel available because different geometry of the arms extends the CVs further than the stock arms. Without the drop brackets the (US) drivers side driveshaft doesn't actually reach the output flange with the suspension extended.
I did try OME stuts with mine but I didn't have enough CV travel to run them and the spacers.
HTH
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The lack of bumpstop spacers has been one issue I feel Calmini should have addressed. Coil bind is not acceptable from a "complete suspension system". When I pulled my system off last year to strip it and repaint, cracking was discovered in the bracket that mounts to the rear diff. The heim joint setup gets so much mud etc in there that it wears out to quick and they should at least have provided some protection like Spidertrax sells for the joints. A diff spacer would probably work just as well. I was also a bit disappointed when I found out that the rear arms were no longer. It has some great features but as I keep saying it's almost there but it needs the final touches to be 100%.
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:) Thanks a bunch Guys for all the detailed info, especially Rhinoman. I do think it may be worth it to spring for the whole Calmini kit. It seems using my OME struts and shocks may cause problems that won't make it worth the trouble. Too bad, cause they are such good dampers. To get that 1/2 " more of lift isn't a big deal to me, but the correct geometry in the front is, and from reading all the threads on Calmini's lift I see there is a good possibilty I could go even more with a small spacer over the coils if I chose to in the future. It's all moot anyway since the kits are on backorder. That is definitly the way I want to go though, at least in the front.
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I do think it may be worth it to spring for the whole Calmini kit.
If ya wanna wait until summer or so (unlikely), a friend may be going SAS from a Calmini 3" lift, meaning he'll have parts to sell off. But if you are in a rush to do this, don't wait. He's not the fastest gun in the west if you know what I mean.
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Thanks Yankee Tim, it seems like I'm gonna wait even if I did'nt want to . All Calmini's lift kits are on back order. Tell your friend I am interested and want first dibs if he goes that route. I'd definitely rather by used, and waiting is not a problem.
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Thanks Yankee Tim, it seems like I'm gonna wait even if I did'nt want to . All Calmini's lift kits are on back order. Tell your friend I am interested and want first dibs if he goes that route. I'd definitely rather by used, and waiting is not a problem.
Will do. I'll keep you abreast (and a wing and a thigh, if ya want).
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;) Actually, I'm an assman, as opposed to asshole which I'm sometimes confused with. Thanks