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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: explosivo on December 17, 2004, 10:55:46 AM
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Ho much can you bore out a 1.6L block before it gets really weak?
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.060 is the largest overbore piston
I have seen
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just off the top of my head, here is australia, they have a big bore kit for the 1.6. they say it bores it out to a 1.8 with new internals and all that.
i can't seem to remember where i got the info from, but i was extremely keen for this as it keeps it all carby and away from electronics and forced induction.
but then i saw the price tag, i think its about $1750.00 AUD. cant remember if it inculdes labour or if it was just for the kit.
couldn't imagine how much better vits would go with more torque.
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Since we're on the topic of engine internals, is there anywhere that sells stronger pistons/connecting rods/cranks for the Sidekick engine?
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Sure, how much do you want to spend ?
a set of rods is $700 and pistons are $500
:o small change for good stuff, but Zuke
rods are tough, I would only go for pistons,
forged low compression if you want a turbo,
forged 8:1 would be good, the turbo, by over
filling the cylinder, creates an increased CR
effect, at 5 PSI a 8:1 would by an effective
10-11:1 ratio, so you will need mid range
89 or higher octane fuel.
Wild
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See, that's the dilema. I don't know if I want a turbo yet, or if I want to increase the CR, have the head shaved a touch, install stainless valves, get the head and intake ported and polished and throw in a cam and header to make a high-compression NA engine and avoid having hot chunks of metal hanging off the engine to drop into water :-/
Turbo actually seems like the more economical option, though :-/
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just off the top of my head, here is australia, they have a big bore kit for the 1.6. they say it bores it out to a 1.8 with new internals and all that.
i can't seem to remember where i got the info from, but i was extremely keen for this as it keeps it all carby and away from electronics and forced induction.
but then i saw the price tag, i think its about $1750.00 AUD. cant remember if it inculdes labour or if it was just for the kit.
couldn't imagine how much better vits would go with more torque.
I've seen a kit at http://www.suzisport.com/shop/ that takes it out to 1750 may be thats the one your thinking of ?
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you may need to talk to a machinist, but you can offset weld the crank. if you can offset the crank another 1/4 inch, you should be able to use your existing rods(not sure about this on a zuke but alright on most engines) and get a custom piston to make up for the difference. Should come in cheap enough I think
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A quarter inch :o that's an increase of
1/2" stroke, that's huge, and a no can do
on the Kick motor, if you want a crank done
I can have one reground to increase the stroke
by 4-5mm for about $200, you supply the crank,
I would recommend a later double counter weight
crank.
An increase of 5mm stroke is 1679cc on a stock
bore of 75mm bore to 78mm and you get 1816cc
Who want's a stroker 1.8L motor ???
I'm taking orders ;D
Wild
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did someone mention something about a stroked 1.6?
hmmmmm...... stroker 1.8?
if i get a crank done to give a stroke increase of 5mm, what else will i need? can i use my original pistons rods and whatever else was in the engine?
if i do get a crank made up, will everything else hold up? i dont know too much about this.
thanks
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You need larger pistons to get 1.8L out of a 1.6L
motor, the pistons need to compensate for the
longer stroke, or get shorter con rods instead, either
way it's a bunch of new parts to get there, reliable,
ya, as much as any engine can be, welded cranks
and overbore engines are not any weaker than
other engines.
There are several factors that affect how much power
and engine can produce, the length of the crank throw
is a lever, the longer the lever, the greater the torque.
Also the dia. of the piston affects the needed pressure
of the combustion to produce the desired power output,
the larger the piston, the lower the pressure needs to be
to produce a specified HP/ Torque output.
Increase both of these and the power can rise significantly
with the same amount of fuel and air, which will improve
fuel MPG and available power/torque.
Things to think about when chooseing an engine
for a task, low RPM, high RPM, Torque etc.
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a stroker will definately increase your bottom enf torque. the 15% displacement increase should increase your torque numbers by same.
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What is the bore and stroke of a 1.6?
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How about a 1.6 based 3.0?? I talked with a local machine shop lately about upsizing dramatically. It seems as though it can be done, a lot of custom machining and custom head gasket and pistons. The cost is pretty high, though. I was told about $3,000 for the completed long block! But you don't have to adapt another motor or trans into your truck. The power is supposed to be about 220hp with like 230-250lb-ft of torque! Pretty cool, huh?
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*drool*
why does everything have to be so bloody expensive?
i spose money is everything and everything cost money... :(
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What is the bore and stroke of a 1.6?
75mm bore 90mm stroke = 1590cc
The displacement formula for a 4 cylinder engine
is bore x bore x stroke x .0031417
Wild
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How about a 1.6 based 3.0?? I talked with a local machine shop lately about upsizing dramatically. It seems as though it can be done, a lot of custom machining and custom head gasket and pistons. The cost is pretty high, though. I was told about $3,000 for the completed long block! But you don't have to adapt another motor or trans into your truck. The power is supposed to be about 220hp with like 230-250lb-ft of torque! Pretty cool, huh?
Not really a good idea, the largest 4 cylinder
engine was a 2.6 Mitsubishi, and had to have
ballance shafts (rotating weights) to get it to
run smooth and not tear it's self up
If you were to go 10mm on both bore and stroke
you would get 2270cc and thats pushing things,
you would be looking at new pressed in cylinder
sleeves, and a custom forged crank (stock cranks
are hollow :o )
Realisticly a 1.8 or so is the limit in the 1.6 block
and that would be a little pricey, but affordable
Wild
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Mazda Miata 78mm pistons have been used for the big bore conversion. Also there was a Mazda turbo in OZ that has 78mm pistons with a higher silica content. Get a new head gasket made to suit the bore. There is also an oversize available. It is also recommended that the block be re-sleeved with thicker liners to allow for the boring.
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this thread is good, lots of info.
but will it be any use/good if you ONLY stroke the engine? or if you ONLY bore it out?
if either requires new pistons crank etc. it wouldnt be worth it.
is that what they do to V8's? just stroke them?
still learning.
thansk
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what type of power would a 1.6 bored and stroked to 1800 make and how much would this cost? Would this be good instead of forced induction or with?
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A 3mm stroked crank (96mm stroke)
2.5mm Oversize pistons (77.5mm bore)
will give 1811cc 77mm bore will give 1788cc
An engine this size in 8V format would give
about 100HP and in 16V about 115HP
To compensate for the longer stroke I
would go with shorter custom rods and
those are about $500 a set of 4, pistons
I think some forged Wiesco low compression
for turbo would be a good match
In turbo 16V trim this motor will be pushing
200 HP, maybe more.
A stroked crank will cost $250 plus you need
a core or more $$ so in the ballpark parts
would be $1500 plus assembly so a 1.8L
stroker motor will set you back about 2 grand
Wild
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A 3mm stroked crank  (96mm stroke)
2.5mm Oversize pistons (77.5mm bore)
will give 1811cc  77mm bore will give 1788cc
An engine this size in 8V format would give
about 100HP and in 16V about 115HP
To compensate for the longer stroke I
would go with shorter custom rods and
those are about $500 a set of 4, pistons
I think some forged Wiesco low compression
for turbo would be a good match
In turbo 16V trim this motor will be pushing
200 HP, maybe more.
A stroked crank will cost $250 plus you need
a core or more $$  so in the ballpark parts
would be $1500 plus assembly so a 1.8L
stroker motor will set you back about 2 grand
Wild
so 2 G's plus a custom header, turbo, intercooler, piping, fuel managment and you'd be about 6 to 10 grand into it. not really for me...
stu
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Turbo setup should be about $2500
so not 6-10 Gs but a good $4500-5000
would be a good estimate, and to have
it a turn key setup, not too bad, kits will
save you some $$ as always you do it
yourself and save.
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Who would I get to build all the rods and pistons and who would I get all of that from. Also I am SPOA with a 31 and I have a set of dana 44 from a Jeep Wagoneer and plan to run a 35super swaper tsl or a 36 irok. I know that I will not be able to break an axle but how strong is the trans and tcase. I got both from Trail Tough(SUPER PEOPLE) in 03-04 so they have maybe 600 miles on them. If the motor is built what will break next?
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I have a supplier for the crank, but
it requires you to have one to send.
I have a supplier for the rods, but I
just found them, good prices on rods
about half of some others, and the
pistons are forged replacements from
Wiesco, model to be determined by
the bore you want to use
Wild
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what would you think would be a good set up for someone that rarely drives their sami and is a power fiend
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And wanted to do a 4.3 to begin with but everyone said that it would upset everything that was great about the little sami
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How do you drive it (rocks, mud, trails, sand??? )
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No sand I live in Alabama, I do alot of climbing, mud and not any major rocks now.
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Sand and mud have a similar high power
requirement, a stroked motor will have more
torque from it's longer "lever" with the crank
and the larger bore also increases power from
less required pressure to do the same work.
But for a power fiend Turbo is the only thing
that gives the power and acceleration that
will blow your mind ;D and possibly your driveline
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I doubt I will have any trouble with a set of Dana44 front to rear however what can the trans and tcase support. Also what type of fuel management would I need to get, and where would I get a flange and the parts to make the motor live under the positive maniford pressure of a hair dryer?
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Fuel Management, megaSquirt msefi.com
Turbo headers I build and the big bore and
stroked motor needs to have 7.5-8:1 CR
at that CR you can run 10-12 PSI boost and
a 1.8 under that will put out 200-220 HP
probably be faster than a 4.3L Vortec
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Fuel Management, megaSquirt msefi.com
Turbo headers I build and the big bore and
stroked motor needs to have 7.5-8:1 CR
at that CR you can run 10-12 PSI boost and
a 1.8 under that will put out 200-220 HP
probably be faster than a 4.3L Vortec
haha i cant undersatdn this language u r speaking :D how can i get as much power as a 4.3 L?
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How durable would it be?
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Does megasquirt have a web site other than that forum?
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What is the stock cr and how would my computer and EFI respond to the added boost?
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a 1.8 under 10 PSI boost and tuned right
would put out as much as a 3.6L V6 and
with a little more boost a little more power.
The MegaSquirt site has other pages of
FAQ and instructions, let me know what
you want to know and I will see what pages
will help you
Durability, with forged pistons is good, but it
all depends on how you use the skinny pedal.
Most turbo motors see a reduction in overall life
but only about 10% over the life of the engine
lower if you don't change the oil and drive it hard
cold, you know all the bad things you shouldn't do
Stock CR is 9.1:1
8V EFI systems don't like boost well, and cannot
supply over 2 PSI boost fuel, the 16V MPEFI is
supposed to be more flexable, but I don't have
any time with that system.
Wild
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So what should I do with the 1600 8valve that I have now if i want to turbo it? Or would I come out better just to build this motor and work the head and intake? If so what type of power would I get with either? I have a carb setup in the garage so switching to a carb isnt a problem. The only thing that I am afraid of is having fuel starvation. Would I be able to run an aftermarket cam with the fuel injection if I dont go turbo?
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Also the intake and whole EFI setup on my sami is via the original 1300.
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If you want to go turbo, rebuild the
engine with forged low compression pistons,
the problem is if you don't go turbo the HP will
be lower from low compression pistons
EFI works fine with the aftermarket cams
that are being offered, as would a turbo, tho
a stock cam works well with a turbo also.
Power, about 125 at the rear wheels on
a 1.6 8V
I don't like carbs with a turbo, blow thru is
good but you need a sealed float bowl and
high PSI fuel pump to keep the fuel flowing
under boost, and if you draw through there
can be problems with seal washdown from
the gasoline going thru the turbo, tho there
are lots of systems on sand rails that draw thru
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Was that 125hp n/a or turbo? How would I incorporate the 8vavle EFI and the positive manifold pressure?
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N/A hp is 80 at the crank ;)
8V intake, add some injector bungs
and bolt it on, unless you want to get
some custom manifold made up, works fine,
but you need another EFI to run the boost
enrichment (megasquirt)
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So with the megasquit and a built motor I should be able to get 170hp easy? With a built mild bottom end?
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Define built, ya with the right stuff
170 is there, more CCs, cam, the right
CR .......... all have to be right,
I can't push any more becasue of CR right now
I think I have 145-150 at the crank HP
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I sent you an email earlier, if you could get me most of if not all of the links from where you got you stuff and a break down I would greatly apprieciate it. I have a friend that made some suggestions but I wanted to talk to someone that had done it.
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I didn't have anything done,
I done it, there are no parts
out there, these are custom
setups.
I can help with some stuff, but
most of what I did was wrecking
yard hopping and research
I also run a huge Volvo intercooler,
it's bigger than the radiator ;D
I answered back you E-mail,wondered if
it was you
Wild
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Thanks alot you have been a super big help I will keep in touch and let you know about project 36inch smoker ha. Have a good night
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I've heard rumor of a 2.4L Suzuki engine that will fit TT's 2.0L kit and have V-6 #'s ...  So if that is in fact available then wouldn't that be the way to go.  Then mod from their if you still need more...
Think I'll go turbo if I ever decide to go more.
Researching this new info further MSN.com, I do not see a 2.4L offered.  " A 2.0-liter, double overhead cam, four cylinder that produces a commendable 141 horsepower and 135 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm."
 But I do see a new I-6 ...
 "The 2.5-liter I-6, 155-horsepower engine was co-developed with Porsche and is sophisticated, with such items as dual overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder and a variable intake system."
Not my style, Way to much $$$  but just thought i'd toss those items into the works as so they don't get over looked...  ÂÂ
I'd like to see some torque #'s on the new I-6