ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: Mikerpm4x4 on February 28, 2007, 08:58:35 AM
-
Has anyone put a XL7 rear axle in a GV? Sounds like a good upgrade. 5.12s and 28 spline sounds too good to be true, something must be wrong, cause I havent heard of anybody doing it.
Mike
-
Has anyone put a XL7 rear axle in a GV? Sounds like a good upgrade. 5.12s and 28 spline sounds too good to be true, something must be wrong, cause I havent heard of anybody doing it.
Mike
Hey Mike,
Yup it is too good to be true. First off, no TAD of any kinda available. Welding it in the only option.
No gears available, so it's 5.12's forever.
The axles are 28 spline, and much bigger than the Kickers in diameter, but the shafts them selfs are even bigger and pencil down where the splines are, meaning the shaft doesn't have much torsional properties, and might twist the splines off.
Now on the ++ note, the diff is MASSIVE, bigger than a Toy 8". It's got a neato CV driveshaft that's a true CV and not a double carden. The drum brakes are huge as well.
And it's "Pure Suzuki" FWIW.
I'm going with solid Toys on my GV and a Kicker 2 to bring it all home. I need to "Shannon-proof" it. ;D
You think you might be ablt to ever make it out to 'Gon Zookin'? Both our trucks have changed greatly since we saw each other last out in Moab 2002.
-
I think Im going to give it a try. 5.12 is actually a good gear option if I Get a manual. Stock OE ratio for a manual is 4.30 I belive. Im not craxy about welding the rear but Im open to it as a last resort. I want to keep this rig "pure" as possible. Im going to get an XL7 axle to play with and see if I can find a way to machine or make something to get a locker in it. We will soon see how strong the 28 spline axles are. ;)
Mike
-
You think you might be ablt to ever make it out to 'Gon Zookin'? Both our trucks have changed greatly since we saw each other last out in Moab 2002.
I dont know. Its a looong way to paragon from here. Ive got a long list of places I want to go, It all comes down to time and money. If I do make it out it will be a couple years.
Yes both out trucks have definately changed. :o
Mike
-
I think Im going to give it a try. 5.12 is actually a good gear option if I Get a manual. Stock OE ratio for a manual is 4.30 I belive. Im not craxy about welding the rear but Im open to it as a last resort. I want to keep this rig "pure" as possible. Im going to get an XL7 axle to play with and see if I can find a way to machine or make something to get a locker in it. We will soon see how strong the 28 spline axles are. ;)
Mike
I've got a pic "somewhere" comparing the Sami, Kicker and XL diffs side by side. The XL diff pushes the size of a Ford 9. If you can figure out a locker app for that, many would pay homage to you.
I totally respect the "pure" attitude. Some just don't get that at all.
-
A friend of mine has posted on here and on the Yahoo! Grand Vitara group about this. beercheck here also put a XL7 diff under his 99+ 2 door Tracker (along with the rest of the drivetrain).
So far the problems seem to be the rear driveshaft would need to be modified as the XL7 one uses different ends than the GV and the XL7 diff also sticks further forwards. Somehow I doubt you guys would have a problem with that though.
The parking brake cables are different so the GV's cables won't directly fit the XL7's drums.
The panhard bar on the XL7 is different than the GV's so if you use the GV's panhard the axle sits just slightly off center. It's a small amount though, the "thought" amount is like 3/4".
We've talked about it within the last two months here...
-
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=15550.0
-
You think you might be ablt to ever make it out to 'Gon Zookin'? Both our trucks have changed greatly since we saw each other last out in Moab 2002.
I dont know. Its a looong way to paragon from here. Ive got a long list of places I want to go, It all comes down to time and money. If I do make it out it will be a couple years.
Yes both out trucks have definately changed. :o
Mike
Mike if you do find a way to make some work please us know.
George
-
I will be getting an XL7 rear and start working with it after I get back from Moab.
Mike
-
Hi Mike,
Not sure if it is the same over there but our NZ GV's have 4.30 r&p's - manual 2.5 V6 and 4.6 - 2.0 I4. Bit none of this matters if you are going 5.1's anyway :-\
Trust me I can totally relate to the "keeping it pure" thing but sometimes the lack of parts ( read R&P ratios for one ) can get so damn frustrating that you just gotta give in and fit something user freindly. Most of the problems only seem to stem from wanting to run BIG rubber mind you ;)
Good luck with this project though, a lot of people will be keeping an eye on this one >:D
ZeusZuki 8)
-
We've talked about it within the last two months here...
Hey! There's my pictures! See, I didn't even have to go looking for them.
;D
-
We've talked about it within the last two months here...
Hey! There's my pictures! See, I didn't even have to go looking for them.
;D
Would be nice if you could them and repost them with a higher res.
George
-
What's wrong with the stock diff?
Fredo
-
What's wrong with the stock diff?
Fredo
going from 4.30 to 5.12 would accomidate the 33 inch tires and put the spedo and power back to stock. The XL7 also has a much larger ring and pinion plus 28 spline axles.
Mike
-
A guy from Québec(ZR2 on the forum) fit kick 5.12 in a vitara diff. So you probably fit them in a GV diff.
Larger R&P = larger casing = less ground clearance.
Why don't trying a dana 44? you can put 5.13 in this and you have more locker option.
Fredo
-
The panhard bar on the XL7 is different than the GV's so if you use the GV's panhard the axle sits just slightly off center. It's a small amount though, the "thought" amount is like 3/4".
The panhards are identical lengths, but the mounting points are slightly off.
-
Does the front XL7 diff gears bolt into the Grand Vitara?
Marc
-
Does the front XL7 diff gears bolt into the Grand Vitara?
Marc
Yes they are the same 7 inch ring and pinion that suzuki has used for years. Im not sure if the whole housing is interchangeable.
Mike
-
A guy from Québec(ZR2 on the forum) fit kick 5.12 in a vitara diff. So you probably fit them in a GV diff.
Larger R&P = larger casing = less ground clearance.
Why don't trying a dana 44? you can put 5.13 in this and you have more locker option.
Fredo
On this build I would like to keep it pure suzuki. I want the stonger rear end as I plan to put some long highway miles on inbetween some nasty 4 wheeling. I realize In going to have to pull back the reigns a little but If I can build it strong enough out of the box, I wont have to completely change my driving style.
Mike
-
Hi all,
what are the differences between the XL-7 rear axle and a GV rear axle ?
As i know, the XL7 has 28 axle splines and 8'' (or more) ring gear.
The GV has 26 rear and 7,5'' ring gear, correct?
Except those differences , are there are any others like ..... :
1. XL7 rear axle shafts are longer/wider than the GV axle shafts.
2.The couplers in the rear diff except that they are 28 slpines , how big they look?
3.Does XL-7 looks excactly the same in the rear brakes (except the brake line system), for example its uses 4 bolts for the axle shaft (maybe i,m wrong here) ?
4.does the XL-7 uses the same rims as any GV or they are more/less backspaced?
which means maybe a wider (possible) // shorter (dont think so) rear axle than GV's ?
5.What is the diameter of the XL7 axle shaft? same 27.4 as the GV's or a bit more?
Finally, i want to fit some XL-7 rear axle shafts with their 28 slpine couplers to my GV rear axle.... Cool because i,m gona put a locker that it would be built from zero, so i may have enough space to fit the couplers if they re much bigger than GV's. ?
Is that possible ?
or do i need to swap the whole rear XL7 ?
Any help would be great, cause there isn't much time left,
Thank ya all !
PS: i 've posted that in the XL7 section too.
-
I never opened my axle housing up at all, just transferred it entirely from truck to truck, so I can't help with any of your internal detail questions.
3.Does XL-7 looks excactly the same in the rear brakes (except the brake line system), for example its uses 4 bolts for the axle shaft (maybe i,m wrong here) ?
The brake line system is pretty much identical, down to the last fitting. I went from non-ABS to ABS, so there was tiny difference for me, but it was more just a matter of having a couple pieces left unused than anything. There was no fabbing or trips to the parts store.
The axle housing/flanges/drums/shoes are seriously super-sized compared to the Vitara.
4.does the XL-7 uses the same rims as any GV or they are more/less backspaced?
which means maybe a wider (possible) // shorter (dont think so) rear axle than GV's ?
Same 16" rims, I'm almost certain. If the XL-7's axle was wider, it wasn't by much. I don't notice any difference at all (except for that bit about mine being slightly offset to the driver's side....still....).
-
Does the front XL7 diff gears bolt into the Grand Vitara?
Marc
The XL-7's front axle shafts are larger diameter than my Tracker's were (not sure about V6 GVs), but the entire front housing bolted right in. Lots easier to swap the whole assembly than to swap gears.
-
I never opened my axle housing up at all, just transferred it entirely from truck to truck, so I can't help with any of your internal detail questions.
3.Does XL-7 looks excactly the same in the rear brakes (except the brake line system), for example its uses 4 bolts for the axle shaft (maybe i,m wrong here) ?
The brake line system is pretty much identical, down to the last fitting. I went from non-ABS to ABS, so there was tiny difference for me, but it was more just a matter of having a couple pieces left unused than anything. There was no fabbing or trips to the parts store.
The axle housing/flanges/drums/shoes are seriously super-sized compared to the Vitara.
4.does the XL-7 uses the same rims as any GV or they are more/less backspaced?
which means maybe a wider (possible) // shorter (dont think so) rear axle than GV's ?
Same 16" rims, I'm almost certain. If the XL-7's axle was wider, it wasn't by much. I don't notice any difference at all (except for that bit about mine being slightly offset to the driver's side....still....).
Hi beercheck,
i dont mind about the rear brake system cause i,m gonna use my axle if everything is fine finally.
Offset to the driver's side?
Are you sure? got any picks yet to see that please.
If thats true, there must be a longer and a shorter rear axle , right?
If its the same lengh we will do a great start!!
let me know if you have some news please,
Thank you!
-
Offset to the driver's side?
Are you sure? got any picks yet to see that please.
If thats true, there must be a longer and a shorter rear axle , right?
If its the same lengh we will do a great start!!
Um...yeah....I'd say I'm sure. But no, it doesn't mean that the axles are different lengths. It means the XL-7's frame was slightly wider at the rear axle than my 2-door's was (or at least the Panhard bar mount on it was slightly more outboard, relatively), yet the Panhard bar was the same length, so the panhard mount on the axle housing was in a different location (slightly more inboard, relatively). When I mounted that axle under my Tracker, with its slightly more inboard frame-side Panhard mount, the axle was located away a little bit to accommodate the same length Panhard bar.
All that said, it still doesn't answer your questions about axle shaft lengths. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a difference in shaft length between the two. Or not. Sorry.
-
Notice that i wont be surpriced either if there is a difference between shafts length. 8)
I,m trying to find out and if there is a difference .....i won't start nothing.
But thanks for answering to me and i hope that there might be a guy who will give me the explenation i need ;)
-
All that said, it still doesn't answer your questions about axle shaft lengths. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a difference in shaft length between the two. Or not. Sorry.
I don't believe they are the same. I'm the one who took the pic of a Sammy, Kick 12-bolt and XL7 pig. side-by-side, that floats till this day around the net. There was a significant difference in the distance between sidegears from the 12-bolt to the XL. Goes to figure since the diff is so friggin big compared to the 12-bolt. So it would lent to reason that the shafts are shorter to accomdate the wider diffs.
I really wish that wasn't true, and that XL sidegears would fit in a 12-bolt carrier, but I don't think they will. If so, the the XLs shafts could be an upgrade for the GV.
*dreaming*
-
Hi Yankee-Tim,
i wish they fit just fine in the GV axle, but i don't know whats going on for sure.
Let me have some free time and i think i ll find out.
And yes...... if they fit they will be a very good upgrade for GV's.