ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: daddyizzle on March 10, 2007, 10:14:21 AM
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When I replaced my o-ring a few months back, I noticed the bottom bolt was stripped. Not holding it tight so it still leaks.
1. Would I be able to tap the hole out with out removing the whole component?
2. If not, could I remove the housing with the distributor intact and do the job without having trouble with the gear on the distributor moving on me?
3. What would be the best tap size to go up to or is their a better way to do this?
I'm kind of pressed for time lately so I want to do it the best way, and hopefully the quickest/easiest way as I hate to pull the distributor and have to go through the trouble of finding the right spot to put it back in. Seems I always miss by one tooth either way.
-Adam
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remove the dist. make note where its pointing. then the housing, then use a hela-coil.
you can get them at any auto parts store
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Darn! I guess there isn't a way to do it without removing both? Maybe not enough clearance anyways , but what is a hela-coil?.
-Adam
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its a metal sleeve that is threaded inside and outside.
ask for it like at napa or checker whatever they'll know what you meen.
they come in a kit with the tap and inserting tool and threadlocker.
by fixijng it this way you can use the standard bolt.
take the bolt with you to make sure you get the right hela-coil
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Thanks! I'll do one better. I'll take one of the good bolts in case the one that doesn't work is a wrong bolt. It seems to me that they should be all the same size and thread count but different lengths. I wonder if maybe someone in the past mixed the bolts around. I think one even has a different size head. Maybe they lost one and put in an S.A.E. by mistake. I'll certainly take a closer look at the bolts and holes to see what exactly happened so I can fix it right this time.
What size are they supposed to be, and which length bolts go in which holes?
-Adam
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I'd have to go pull mine out to find out.
getting old. have a bad case of CRS ( CAN'T REMEMBER SHIT)
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I think you mean heli-coil? If they're the bolts I'm thinking of then they're M6 x 1.0. Theres another company that makes the inserts under the brand name recoil
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I think you mean heli-coil? If they're the bolts I'm thinking of then they're M6 x 1.0. Theres another company that makes the inserts under the brand name recoil
Same lengths. I thought two were one size and one was different.
-Adam
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I said I was getting old. affects my spelling
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I went and picked up the helicoil set as suggested here. Expensive! Anyways, I lifted up the hood and see a lack of clearance behind the head.
1. How would one go about drilling out the hole on the back of the head
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2.Would a right angle drill or maybe a Dremmel with a right angle fit in there or do I have to pull the engine or pull the head?
3. What would be the best way to get it done without taking too much time?
-Adam
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see if you can fit a right angle drill in there. pulling the motor is easy and quick. that way you can see what your doing real well. and get it done right the first time.
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see if you can fit a right angle drill in there. pulling the motor is easy and quick. that way you can see what your doing real well. and get it done right the first time.
I got some stuff while waiting for a reply:
Kobalt right angle air drill: about 50 or 60 bucks with tax.
Napa helicoil set with 10 inserts: about 40 bucks with tax
I would pull the engine but times tight and so is my back. I think I can either use a stubby bit or cut the one I bought and get in there. My concern is getting metal shavings inside the head. I'm not sure if it's a through hole but I'll check, and use a stop collar if I have to.
Wonder what a shop would have charged to do this? Oh well, I will attempt to tackle this hopefully small project Saturday morning. Thanks for the help.
-Adam
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I think I got it fixed. As it turns out, the top two bolts were stripped. One of them had the threads from the head right with it. There also was evidence of some kind of J.B.Weld or something for thread repair.
A couple months, back maybe 6?, I had taken the housing off to replace the o ring and noticed there wasn't one in there. I suspect someone tried tightening the crap out of it to stop the leak. I could feel the threads stripped a bit then but hoped with a new o ring that it would stop the leak. It did temporarily but got worse over the months. I was losing a quart every two weeks I think.
Now back to the repair. If I could do it all over again, I would find 1/2 inch longer bolts then what was in there and try retapping and tightening down. If that didn't work, using the helicoil with a longer insert. say close to an inch. I believe the hole will accommodate it. Then I would take bolts that would run just short of the flange in the helicoil. Otherwise you bottom out and hit it. Then you strip the bolt out trying to tighten it up.
The problem I ran into with doing this job with the engine installed is:
1. I had to use the Kobalt air drill and lob off the drill bit and stick it deep inside of the drill chuck, then carefully sneak it behind the head.
2. I then had to pull the bit out of the chuck to drill a little deeper.
3. The tool they give you to install it didn't work right, I had to take the bit out of the guide and turn the coil in with a tight grip from both hands and finish with a small wrench.
4. There was no way that I could see to get a punch and knock out the flange inside the helicoil once it was installed.
The biggest obstacle I came across was the lack of clearance. It would have also helped to have a few long m6-1 bolts and nuts. I ground mine down to size until I could get them to work. All because I couldn't knock the flange out.
I think this will work for now. I may have jacked up the mount holes in the head though as I am afraid to ever take it off again. I'll be watching for a high performance head in the future. Next time it leaks, the whole heads coming off just to be safe.
I just had to make sure I had it back and running before the work week, and for a minute, I thought I was screwed.
Anyways, I think it will work for now.
Comments welcome.
-Adam
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'taeb ht e 1 intrkabs
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Glad you got it sorted. The Recoil kit doesn't use a guide just the inner part, as long as the insert screwed in OK then its not an issue. Helicoils are standard fitment for aluminium used in aerospace applications, standard' length is 1.5-2 x the diameter which is plenty strong enough. If you ever take the head off you can knock the tanf off but I doubt that you'll have any more problems with those threads now.
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3 days later and no leak whatsoever (yet) I'll keep my fingers crossed. Now thinking about a lift....
-Adam
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glad to hear it. hope it stays that way
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remove the dist. make note where its pointing. then the housing, then use a hela-coil.
you can get them at any auto parts store
I went ahead and tried the Heli-coil insert and it failed sort of. The Heli-coil pulled loose. Oil slowly drizzled down over the transmission. The problem as it turns out is that the Heli-coils are designed for steel. Alluminum doesn't hold them very well. Hind site being 20-20, a better sollution would be a Key-sert threaded insert. It screws into a regular tapped hole but has 3 or 4 prongs that you tap into place that locks it into the alluminum. + no prong to get in the way. Kind of expensive per insert at about $6.00 each but no special tools.
I reworked the holes and tried the heli-coils again with some thread-lock and if it still leaks, I will take some 6mm threaded studs and some permanent locktite in the holes. Or anything that will lock the studs into the holes. Then when it sets up, I 'll just put the housing over the studs and use nuts instead. I think that will hold but may require sliding the engine forward to get the housing over the studs.
-Adam
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I went ahead and tried the Heli-coil insert and it failed sort of. The Heli-coil pulled loose. Oil slowly drizzled down over the transmission. The problem as it turns out is that the Heli-coils are designed for steel. Alluminum doesn't hold them very well.
-Adam
No we use Heli-coils all the time in aluminium. Its a military requirement that threads in ally have them. You should use a locking compound, although I've used them many times in bike engines without ever having a problem. I'm pretty sure the stuff we usually use at work is specially designed for Heli-coils, I'd have to ask one of the Mech Eng guys. All I know is its yellow ::)
Are you sure that the hole is clear and there isn't any debris causing the screw to bottom out?
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It's clear. I knocked the tabs off too. I'm not too worried about it, like I said, if this doesn't hold, I'm putting in a couple fresh helicoils and some 6mm all-thread. Locktite red shoud lock it in and then I'll just use some nuts on the outside. I'm sure I'll have to slide the engine forward to get the housing over the studs if I go that route but that's pretty easy to do.
-Adam