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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mtnmankev on December 09, 2004, 03:05:36 PM
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I am rebuilding a '96 tracker 1.6 engine to put in my sami.
It is not practical for me to use the 16 valve head that came on the 1.6, and i don't want to buy a 8 valve head for the 1.6.
Can i use the 1.3 head from my 92 carbureted sami on the 1.6 block, and what repercussions/modifications am i looking at ?? thanks...
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The head is a direct swap, but the distributor
drive is head specific, you need to use the 1.3
drive housing on the 1.3 head, but the distributor
might not fit the 1.3 housing, I had to remove the
tip of a 1.3 distributor to fit into a 1.6 head, if I
remember right, the 1.6 dizzy fits the 1.3 OK
but I'm not sure, and you need to block the fuel
pump opening if you aren't using it
Wild
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whats the advantage of the 1.3 head? I figured the 16v would be better
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the advantage of not using the 16 valve head is the fact that 1.) i live on a fixed income and 2.) buying the ECM and going through the hassles of wiring the EFI is a royal pain on me and 3.) i have a running 1.3 with a good head on it, and 4.) i can sell the 16 valve head and EFI parts to offset the cost of rebuilding the block.
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The head is a direct swap, but the distributor
drive is head specific, you need to use the 1.3
drive housing on the 1.3 head, but the distributor
might not fit the 1.3 housing, I had to remove the
tip of a 1.3 distributor to fit into a 1.6 head, if I
remember right, the 1.6 dizzy fits the 1.3 OK
but I'm not sure, and you need to block the fuel
pump opening if you aren't using it
Wild
I think this will confuse you here, if you just swap the head onto your 1.6 block keep everything intact on the 1.3 head, intake, carb and including the disty.
I did this setup on my first zook and noticed a big difference in low end torque compared to using the 1.6 head. later on I added an isky cam, thorley header and a pony carb. the damn thing cruised at 120 km/h on 31's and 3.90 gears.
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one thing I forgot to mention is that there is a lower compression rate in the 16 valve lower blocks due to the pistons and rings. might wanna swap in your 1.3 pistons with new rings unless you wanna go the turbo route ;D
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Pistons and rings, along with the wrist pins
and the rods are all different on a 1.3, and
actually the 1.6 16V head CCs out at fewer
than the standard 1.6 8V, which compensates
for the pistons clearance cuts.
The difference isn't going to be noticable,
don't swap the pistons, it won't work and
it's not needed
Wild
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any way i go on this project has to be an improvement over a gutless 1.3 with low compression at high altitude (5500 feet) i have seen what a fresh 1.3 can do, but when they add up some miles, they get like mine.
the 1.3 i am driving doesn't knock or smoke, but won't get out of its own way.
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might wanna swap in your 1.3 pistons with new rings unless you wanna go the turbo route ;D
does this mean that the 1.6 is justa stroked 1.3?
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does this mean that the 1.6 is justa stroked 1.3?
the 1.3 has 2.91 bore x 3.03 stroke
the 1.6 has 2.95 bore x 3.54 stroke
either way it is still undersquare, which is better for a high revving engine.
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The difference isn't going to be noticable,
don't swap the pistons, it won't work and
it's not needed
Wild
so you're saying that the 1.3 head (with int/exh and dizzy) will work on a 1.6, but is it better to finda 1.6 8v head? And what years 1.6's will accept the 1.3 head setup?
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in theory, i should gain some low end torque by using the 1.3 head on the 1.6 block. the years i am experimenting with are: 92 sami 1.3 head and a 96 1.6 formerly 16 valve block. today, when i dropped the block off to the machine shop to be miked and vatted i set a 1.3 head gasket on the block deck and the holes lined up perfectly. i would assume all years would be the same bolt, oil, and coolant passsages between block and head.
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EFI requires an EFI Dizzy
The 1.6 is a stroked 1.3,
kind of, 1.6 is 1mm bigger
bore, but the stroke on a
1.6 is 90mm about 25mm
greater than a 1.3, and the
1.6 block is 25mm taller too
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EFI requires an EFI Dizzy
The 1.6 is a stroked 1.3,
kind of, 1.6 is 1mm bigger
bore, but the stroke on a
1.6 is 90mm about 25mm
greater than a 1.3, and the
1.6 block is 25mm taller too
so does this mean now i will have trouble with the correct length timing belt ??
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Yes, all years, but make sure you get
the oil hole right or you will smoke a cam
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Use 1.6 for 1.6 and 1.3 for 1.3 belts,
swap pullies from 1.6 to 1.3 head, belt
is different too (i forgot to mention)
the Sammy is square tooth, Kick is
round tooth, pullies swap no problem
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What about a 1.6 with the 2wd kick trans? Does that swap offer any advantages to buying an adapter?
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I dunno, might be too long tho
if not it would be a good swap
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What about a 1.6 with the 2wd kick trans? Does that swap offer any advantages to buying an adapter?
trannys are different, in almost all aspects according to the research i have done. sidekicks use half shafts in the front whereas samis use a straight tube axle. in a sami, use the sami tranny with an adaptor.
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Ya, but what you are siteing has no affect
on the use of a 2wd trans and a Sammy T-case
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I thought I should let you guys know that this thread makes my head hurt :(
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i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.
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i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.
He wasn't talking about an entire drivetrain swap, just an the engine and 2wd trans with sammy tcase and axles
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I thought I should let you guys know that this thread makes my head hurt :(
my sincere apologies for the brain pain. i do, however, greatly appreciate the help and input on the task at hand.
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I see how drivetrain swap could be misunderstood now
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i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.
it has been done, and works well. the 2wd kick tranny is slightly longer than the sammi tranny and modifications to the tunnel will have to be made unless you have a 3" body lift or drop your drivetrain 3". the other thing to do is shorten your intermediate shaft and change the slip yoke end coming from the tranny. The kick tranny uses a bigger slip yoke than the samurai one so the kick driveshaft yoke end will have to be put in place.
for technical stuff on the subject there's a write up on it
http://www.off-road.com/suzuki/tech/2wd1600.htm
definitely a big improvement from the wimpy sammi tranny but even better, I think personally, is the 4wd kick tranny/tcase to a sammi case, and go dual tranfers!
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so you're saying that the 1.3 head (with int/exh and dizzy) will work on a 1.6, but is it better to finda 1.6 8v head?  And what years 1.6's will accept the 1.3 head setup?
yes it will work. Is it better to use the 1.6 head? depends. if you wanna use the 1.6 head only and bolt on all the sammi intake and exhaust, disty etc then your just making more work for yourself especially if you had all the EFI stuff there.
the 1.6 head will have better high end horses and a snappier throttle response than using the 1.3 head but not much more (the 1.3 intake is port matched to the 1.3 head intake ports and they are smaller) and you also have to put an electric fuel pump in ( no provisions for mechanical pump on the 1.6)
if you had the EFI all there on the 1.6 head with the harness and ECU it would be easier to wire that all in rather than all the mechanical, but that's me personally. and you just can't beat EFI. oh and the fuel pump, don't forget the fuel pump ;)
as for what year 1.6L's will fit the 1.3 head, all of em do
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in theory, i should gain some low end torque by using the 1.3 head on the 1.6 block. the years i am experimenting with are: 92 sami 1.3 head and a 96 1.6 formerly 16 valve block. today, when i dropped the block off to the machine shop to be miked and vatted i set a 1.3 head gasket on the block deck and the holes lined up perfectly. i would assume all years would be the same bolt, oil, and coolant passsages between block and head.
I just read that your using a 92 1.3 head. that means your running EFI? if so I heard that the 1.3 comp may not be sufficient to compensating the air fuel mix to the bigger displacement but I may be wrong. the other thing is that the in tank fuel pump may need to be swapped out for 1.6 pump
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when i got this engine, it was a complete running engine with 130 K on it, and i have the EFI unit, all hoses, even the wiring harness INTACT (underdash and underhood) from the tracker, but there was no computer or place to plug one into the harness. it's bad enough i have a computer at home, i don't want one on my car. when they work right, they are great. and when they don't, you kick yourself in the ass for not staying with something mechanical you can tinker and fudge with and you know you will have it running again.
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I always install larger exhaust valves in the 1.3 head and port to match.
Any good machine shop shoud vbe able to grind the stock seats to fit the valves.
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Just looking at the two heads, the exhaust
valves look the same size as the 1.6 head,
but the intakes are bigger on the 1.6 for sure.