ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum

ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mtnmankev on December 09, 2004, 03:05:36 PM

Title: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 09, 2004, 03:05:36 PM
I am rebuilding a '96 tracker 1.6 engine to put in my sami.
It is not practical for me to use the 16 valve head that came on the 1.6, and i don't want to buy a 8 valve head for the 1.6.
Can i use the 1.3 head from my 92 carbureted sami on the 1.6 block, and what repercussions/modifications am i looking at ?? thanks...
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 09, 2004, 03:12:43 PM
The head is a direct swap, but the distributor
drive is head specific, you need to use the 1.3
drive housing on the 1.3 head, but the distributor
might not fit the 1.3 housing, I had to remove the
tip of a 1.3 distributor to fit into a 1.6 head, if I
remember right, the 1.6 dizzy fits the 1.3 OK
but I'm not sure, and you need to block the fuel
pump opening if you aren't using it

Wild
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: bandit86 on December 10, 2004, 09:07:38 AM
whats the advantage of the 1.3 head?  I figured the 16v would be better
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 09:40:50 AM
the advantage of not using the 16 valve head is the fact that 1.) i live on a fixed income and 2.) buying the ECM and going through the hassles of wiring the EFI is a royal pain on me and 3.) i have a running 1.3 with a good head on it, and 4.) i can sell the 16 valve head and EFI parts to offset the cost of rebuilding the block.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: szabotage on December 10, 2004, 11:15:54 AM
Quote
The head is a direct swap, but the distributor
drive is head specific, you need to use the 1.3
drive housing on the 1.3 head, but the distributor
might not fit the 1.3 housing, I had to remove the
tip of a 1.3 distributor to fit into a 1.6 head, if I
remember right, the 1.6 dizzy fits the 1.3 OK
but I'm not sure, and you need to block the fuel
pump opening if you aren't using it

Wild


I think this will confuse you here, if you just swap the head onto your 1.6 block keep everything intact on the 1.3 head, intake, carb and including the disty.

I did this setup on my first zook and noticed a big difference in low end torque compared to using the 1.6 head. later on I added an isky cam, thorley header and a pony carb. the damn thing cruised at 120 km/h on 31's and 3.90 gears.  
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: szabotage on December 10, 2004, 11:21:42 AM
one thing I forgot to mention is that there is a lower compression rate in the 16 valve lower blocks due to the pistons and rings. might wanna swap in your 1.3 pistons with new rings unless you wanna go the turbo route ;D
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 12:03:01 PM
Pistons and rings, along with the wrist pins
and the rods are all different on a 1.3, and
actually the 1.6 16V head CCs out at fewer
than the standard 1.6 8V, which compensates
for the pistons clearance cuts.

The difference isn't going to be noticable,
don't swap the pistons, it won't work and
it's not needed

Wild
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 12:15:48 PM
any way i go on this project has to be an improvement over a gutless 1.3 with low compression at high altitude (5500 feet)  i have seen what a fresh 1.3 can do, but when they add up some miles, they get like mine.
the 1.3 i am driving doesn't knock or smoke, but won't get out of its own way.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: dubl_t on December 10, 2004, 01:59:58 PM
Quote
might wanna swap in your 1.3 pistons with new rings unless you wanna go the turbo route ;D

does this mean that the 1.6 is justa stroked 1.3?
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:02:59 PM
Quote

does this mean that the 1.6 is justa stroked 1.3?


the 1.3 has 2.91 bore x 3.03 stroke
the 1.6 has 2.95 bore x 3.54 stroke

either way it is still undersquare, which is better for a high revving engine.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: dubl_t on December 10, 2004, 02:06:12 PM
Quote

The difference isn't going to be noticable,
don't swap the pistons, it won't work and
it's not needed

Wild

so you're saying that the 1.3 head (with int/exh and dizzy) will work on a 1.6, but is it better to finda 1.6 8v head?  And what years 1.6's will accept the 1.3 head setup?
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:12:07 PM
in theory, i should gain some low end torque by using the 1.3 head on the 1.6 block. the years i am experimenting with are: 92 sami 1.3 head and a 96 1.6 formerly 16 valve block. today, when i dropped the block off to the machine shop to be miked and vatted i set a 1.3 head gasket on the block deck and the holes lined up perfectly. i would assume all years would be the same bolt, oil, and coolant passsages between block and head.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:14:26 PM
EFI requires an EFI Dizzy

The 1.6 is a stroked 1.3,
kind of, 1.6 is 1mm bigger
bore, but the stroke on a
1.6 is 90mm about 25mm
greater than a 1.3, and the
1.6 block is 25mm taller too
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:16:26 PM
Quote
EFI requires an EFI Dizzy

The 1.6 is a stroked 1.3,
kind of, 1.6 is 1mm bigger
bore, but the stroke on a
1.6 is 90mm about 25mm
greater than a 1.3, and the
1.6 block is 25mm taller too


so does this mean now i will have trouble with the correct length timing belt ??
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:17:24 PM
Yes, all years, but make sure you get
the oil hole right or you will smoke a cam
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:20:02 PM
Use 1.6 for 1.6 and 1.3 for 1.3 belts,
swap pullies from 1.6 to 1.3 head, belt
is different too (i forgot  to mention)
the Sammy is square tooth, Kick is
round tooth, pullies swap no problem
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: j2custom on December 10, 2004, 02:24:32 PM
What about a 1.6 with the 2wd kick trans? Does that swap offer any advantages to buying an adapter?
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:27:43 PM
I dunno, might be too long tho
if not it would be a good swap
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:28:31 PM
Quote
What about a 1.6 with the 2wd kick trans? Does that swap offer any advantages to buying an adapter?

trannys are different, in almost all aspects according to the research i have done. sidekicks use half shafts in the front whereas samis use a straight tube axle. in a sami, use the sami tranny with an adaptor.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:30:28 PM
Ya, but what you are siteing has no affect
on the use of a 2wd trans and a Sammy T-case
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: explosivo on December 10, 2004, 02:33:31 PM
I thought I should let you guys know that this thread makes my head hurt :(
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:33:40 PM
i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: explosivo on December 10, 2004, 02:34:45 PM
Quote
i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.

He wasn't talking about an entire drivetrain swap, just an the engine and 2wd trans with sammy tcase and axles
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 10, 2004, 02:34:53 PM
Quote
I thought I should let you guys know that this thread makes my head hurt :(


my sincere apologies for the brain pain. i do, however, greatly appreciate the help and input on the task at hand.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2004, 02:37:37 PM
I see how drivetrain swap could be misunderstood now
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: szabotage on December 11, 2004, 03:12:06 AM
Quote
i am trying to remember how a friend's kick drivetrain is setup for tranny',Tcase,and how it all mounts. for some reason i seem to remember it would not be an easy swap into a sami.


it has been done, and works well. the 2wd kick tranny is slightly longer than the sammi tranny and modifications to the tunnel will have to be made unless you have a 3" body lift or drop your drivetrain 3". the other thing to do is shorten your intermediate shaft and change the slip yoke end coming from the tranny.  The kick tranny uses a bigger slip yoke than the samurai one so the kick driveshaft yoke end will have to be put in place.

for technical stuff on the subject there's a write up on it

http://www.off-road.com/suzuki/tech/2wd1600.htm

definitely a big improvement from the wimpy sammi tranny but even better, I think personally, is the 4wd kick tranny/tcase to a sammi case, and go dual tranfers!
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: szabotage on December 11, 2004, 03:29:27 AM
Quote

so you're saying that the 1.3 head (with int/exh and dizzy) will work on a 1.6, but is it better to finda 1.6 8v head?  And what years 1.6's will accept the 1.3 head setup?


yes it will work.  Is it better to use the 1.6 head? depends.  if you wanna use the 1.6 head only and bolt on all the sammi intake and exhaust, disty etc then your just making more work for yourself especially if you had all the EFI stuff there.

the 1.6 head will have better high end horses and a snappier throttle response than using the 1.3 head  but not much more (the 1.3 intake is port matched to the 1.3 head intake ports and they are smaller) and you also  have to put an electric fuel pump in ( no provisions for mechanical pump on the 1.6)

if you had the EFI all there on the 1.6 head with the harness and ECU it would be easier to wire that all in rather than all the mechanical, but that's me personally.  and you just can't beat EFI.  oh and the fuel pump, don't forget the fuel pump ;)

as for what year 1.6L's will fit the 1.3 head, all of em do
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: szabotage on December 11, 2004, 03:33:45 AM
Quote
in theory, i should gain some low end torque by using the 1.3 head on the 1.6 block. the years i am experimenting with are: 92 sami 1.3 head and a 96 1.6 formerly 16 valve block. today, when i dropped the block off to the machine shop to be miked and vatted i set a 1.3 head gasket on the block deck and the holes lined up perfectly. i would assume all years would be the same bolt, oil, and coolant passsages between block and head.


I just read that your using a 92 1.3 head. that means your running EFI?  if so I heard that the 1.3 comp may not be sufficient to compensating the air fuel mix to the bigger displacement but I may be wrong. the other thing is that the in tank fuel pump may need to be swapped out for 1.6 pump
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: mtnmankev on December 17, 2004, 01:50:42 PM
when i got this engine, it was a complete running engine with 130 K on it, and i have the EFI unit, all hoses, even the wiring harness INTACT (underdash and underhood) from the tracker, but there was no computer or place to plug one into the harness. it's bad enough i have a computer at home, i don't want one on my car. when they work right, they are great. and when they don't, you kick yourself in the ass for not staying with something mechanical you can tinker and fudge with and you know you will have it running again.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: CrazyCooter on December 18, 2004, 05:16:42 PM
I always install larger exhaust valves in the 1.3 head and port to match.

Any good machine shop shoud vbe able to grind the stock seats to fit the valves.
Title: Re: 1.3 head on 1.6 block hermaphrodite
Post by: wildgoody on December 18, 2004, 05:54:56 PM
Just looking at the two heads, the exhaust
valves look the same size as the 1.6 head,
but the intakes are bigger on the 1.6 for sure.