ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Rhinoman on May 22, 2007, 02:00:33 PM
-
I posted this on another board but I'll repeat it here because this is my regular board and because I'm feeling quite chuffed ;D ;D
I reckon so. I've been having a good look inside mine. I pulled the EPROM and after a good many hours I've been able to disassemble the binary image. I still need to work out which bit of code does what. I need to put back all the components that I took off to trace through the circuitry and then fire it up and do some monitoring on the bus. What I have done so far proves that it can be reprogrammed. I'm pretty sure that I have identified the fuel maps. I've not found the ignition maps though, it could be a problem if they are inside one of the custom chips.
Not very interesting but here is the (rather rough) source code
http://www.rhinoman.org/ee88.zip
This looks to be one of the fuel maps:
(http://www.rhinoman.org/fuel_map.jpg)
Most likely one for cold and one for hot. The first is a little richer so most likely for cold running. The fuelling on the second map drops off dramatically at the top end which I'm guessing is fuel cut to prevent over revving. Of course I could be wrong, lol.
The 16V ECU is much more difficult, it doesn't have the external EPROM and the code is hidden inside the processor which can't be reprogrammed. It would need a conversion to a different processor and all new code.
Edit: The two pics I originally posted were of the same map!
-
Great Work Rhinoman! Keep at it, I'm sure you'll figure out a way to reprogram the 16 valve. Then I'll ship you one to do for my turbo!
-
your a freaking wiz wish i was that smart
-
I'm sure you'll figure out a way to reprogram the 16 valve.
I've figured out a way to do it, I have a couple of 16V ECUs here but I don't have a motor with a 16v that I can experiment on.
The 8V and 16V ECUs have quite different processors, the 8V uses a Mitsubishi propritary processor that has some commonality with the old Motorola HC11 family. The 16V uses a Mitsu clone of an Hitachi H8/532 processor. There is more than likely a reprogrammable device that would be a direct replacement for the processor. Unfortunately the H8 is obsolete and not very well supported. If I was going to tackle the 16V I would fit a replace the processor with a socket and then fit a different proceesor on an interface PCB. I could use a dsPIC which is what I used in my own ECU design, they are much faster than the original, 16-bit and have a DSP engine. The tools are free too and theres plenty of support for these.
The 8V ECU that I'm working with is destined for the 1.6 in the SJ. If I blow that engine up then I will definately replace it with a 16V.
-
your a freaking wiz wish i was that smart
Thanks, I wish I could weld like a lot of you guys.
-
I have a 16v ecu that shot craps on me, if you want it to experiment with i'll send it to you no charge. The info you are posting is a goldmine, keep up the excellent work.
-
I have a 16v ecu that shot craps on me, if you want it to experiment with i'll send it to you no charge. The info you are posting is a goldmine, keep up the excellent work.
What numbers are on the case? The two 16V ECUS that I have are identical if its different It could be useful.
Cheers
James
-
;) Not that I'm wishing anything bad on such a respected member of the forum, but I do hope that that 8 valver does bite the big one someday! Then you'll have to work on development of the 16! Seriously though, you really are a rocket scientist!
-
numbers are
33920-58b00
E2T42981 T
4408 A2
US-AT
-
WOW!! Keep working on the 8V ECU. I'd love to have the option to "chip" my tracker and find some extra power.
-
numbers are
33920-58b00
E2T42981 T
4408 A2
US-AT
Cool, thats a different one to the two that I have here. I'll PM you
Thanks
James
-
If you get the 8v firgured out I'd buy one for a turbo 8v:D
thanks nevada smith
-
I've replaced the stock 27C256 EPROM with a 28HC256 EEPROM. The 27 device requires a UV light source to erase it. The 28 device can be electrically erased and can be reprogrammed many more times compared to the 27. The EPROM is the chip that holds all the programme code, needless to say the code must be copied into the new chip. The PCB needs a couple of mods to fit the alternative device. Save the pics to your PC if you want to see them full size.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/bottom_link_sm.jpg)
1. Cut track near via
2. Links to pin 1
3. Cut track near via
4. Link pins 27 & 28
Pin 27 is the Write Enable pin, this is tied High to 5V (pin 28) to hold the chip in Read mode. At some point in the future it may be possible to tie the Write Enable to a spare processor pin to enable reprogramming down the serial link. For now the chip will have to be removed and placed in a programmer. To facilitate this a socket is fitted.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/top_cut_sm.jpg)
On the top side of the PCB the track from pin 1 is cut close to the IC. Note that the socket used has turned pins and is not the less reliable type that uses formed pins.
The EEPROM installed:
(http://www.rhinoman.org/eeprom.jpg)
Now to start some serious hacking. The adaptor for Logic Analyser is made from a piece of strip board and fits between the socket and the IC. It is possible to buy clips that go over the IC but I'm a cheapskate. The adaptor will also stay in place if I end up driving round with the LA attached.
(http://www.rhinoman.org/LA_header.jpg)
-
Rhinoman do you have an electrical engineering degree?
-
So Far very impressive.
There is a device that is used to reprogram 300zx ecu (pocket emulator to name one) that may work well for a final version of this, thus giving you the ability to drive and hack code
-
Rhinoman do you have an electrical engineering degree?
BEng Electronics, University of Reading 1998. Before I went to Uni I was apprenticed as a Technician (HNC qualified), worked in R&D for a large Defence company. Since 98 I've been designing electronics for defence applications.
No one seems to be working on the Zuk ECU and there is almost no information on the net. I have a spare ECU so I thought I'd have a go. Then I can start looking at performance camshafts and stuff ;D
-
The motorola HC11 is the MegaSquirt 1 ECU also
Wild
-
so you work for the military >:D >:D >:D
oh ya what did you do to get a turbo setup for the ecu?
and i was on ebay and there was a couple of chips for turbo and non turbo apps claiming 10 to 36 hp if any ones got a chip tell us
-
The motorola HC11 is the MegaSquirt 1 ECU also
Wild
Hey Wild, good to hear from you. When I first started looking EFI a few years ago I knew nothing about it at all. You were the guy that got me started on all this.
The HC11 has had literally hundreds of variants over the years. IIRC the MS1 used a 68HC908. MS came out of the old GM ECU forum, originally they hacked the GM ECU which was HC11 based. Then they developed a 32 bit EFI which wasn't a great success, the guys behind MS thought that there would be a market for a simple stripped down ECU and developed MS - smart thinking.
The MH6211 in the Zuk ECU is more akin to the 68HC11K, the same 84 pin PLCC package but a completely different pin out. It also runs at 4MHz internally, twice as fast as the old HC11. However because the address and data buses are seperate its actually 4 times faster. The instruction set is similar to the HC11 but something like 30% of the instructions have different binary values. In addition there a few Mitsubishi custom instructions. All that means that the HC11 software tools can't be used, reprogramming must be done the old fashioned way - in hexadecimal.
-
There is a device that is used to reprogram 300zx ecu (pocket emulator to name one) that may work well for a final version of this, thus giving you the ability to drive and hack code
There are a few software packages about but I already have one that I developed for my own ECU. I will adapt that to suit.
I've put a few screen captures below. The gauges still need a bit of work, they were my first attempt at producing a Visual Component. One of the reasons for this project is that I use it to teach myself new skills. I also have back problems so it gives me something to do when I can't otherwise work on the truck (like now!)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~j_holland/images/rv_new.jpg)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~j_holland/images/rhinospark.jpg)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~j_holland/images/rhinospark2.jpg)
-
oh ya what did you do to get a turbo setup for the ecu?
and i was on ebay and there was a couple of chips for turbo and non turbo apps claiming 10 to 36 hp if any ones got a chip tell us
I don't have a turbo setup. I think Wild used a progressive pressure fuel regulator with some success. One of those with a remapped ECU might work. As I said before, if I can crack this then it would open up a lot of possibilities.
Those chips are just a con.
-
i thought that they were a con. but keep up the excellent work and hey you could sell the program (after) and make some serious dough.
-
Wow :o :o I don't understand any of this! ??? ??? Is there an application to the Samurai hitachi or fuel injected or are those ecms too obsolete? If you figure these ecms out does that mean you'll be able to figure out the other makers ecms? How does this differ from P.L.C. programming? -Adam
-
Wow :o :o I don't understand any of this! ??? ??? Is there an application to the Samurai hitachi or fuel injected or are those ecms too obsolete? If you figure these ecms out does that mean you'll be able to figure out the other makers ecms? How does this differ from P.L.C. programming? -Adam
I've not seen an ECU for a Samurai so I've no idea how difficult one might be to reprogramme. A number of other ECUs have already been hacked, some are much easier as they use commercially available chips for which datasheets and tools are available. PLC = Programmable Logic Controller? the sort used for machine control? I've never had occasion to use one but as far as I understand they usually come with instructions.
-
Keep up the good work. Looks like you are making some headway. Can't wait to hear the results from your experimentation.