ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: wildgoody on May 24, 2005, 05:17:57 PM
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(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/assembly.gif)
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/s-carbs.gif)
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/s-engine.gif)
I shrunk them down to load quickly
Wild
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is it supercharged?
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No, just highly modified internals
and dual side draft carbs
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No, just highly modified internals
and dual side draft carbs
ah just wondering, cuz thos pullys are huge haha
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Those are what drives the propeller 8)
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are they stromburg carbys? i was going to turbo a 76 celica with a stromburg 175 CD on it. very possible with those carbys.
and it looks mean as. if i opened the hood and saw that, i'd freak out, and then try to steal it when the owner was looking away.
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are they stromburg carbys? i was going to turbo a 76 celica with a stromburg 175 CD on it. very possible with those carbys.
thats what they look like, i have the same carbs on my Trumph TR-7.
stu
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Hi guys
I wanted to take a second to thank "Wild" for hosting the engine pics for me, I admit to being a computer dufus. Thanks Wildgoody.
The specs for the engine are listed under "highperformance engine glitch" if you're interested.
The carbs are strombergs and sikid-01 you are right they were off a TR-7. (CD175's) It's been a really neat but long drawn out project, check out the other thread for details.
The guys on this site have been great with help diagnosing the glitch I've been fighting and I really appreciate it.
As of last night and doing a pile of cam adjusting I'm still not getting full rpm but thrust tests are showing we are up to 100hp (approx) at 5000rpm.
I listed the results of the experiment on cam retarding earlier but it looks like it got zorched by the hacker so I'll list it again here.
The problem has been getting the engine to pull over
5000rpm. Goes to 5000rpm runs excellent but won't pull higher. From the advice I got here and a whole bunch or research I've diagnosed it to needing more cam. So I've ordered a cam. But while waiting for the cam I couldn't resist trying something different. Soooo
Test 1) -Engine was removed, all adjustments and
systems verified correct.
-Camshaft was retarded (1) tooth
Engine ran a little better, good throttle response under prop load, no additional rpm, no measurable power gain.
Test 2) -Camshaft retarded a total of (2) teeth
Engine runs very well, torque moved up 500-1000rpm, excellent mid range throttle response under p[rop load, ran a little cooler with extended (10-15min) wide open throttle. But no additional rpm (still max 5000rpm), but we were able to add another 1-2 degrees of pitch to the prop which indicates a slight power increase.
Words of caution, I wouldn't recommend this setting for 4wd, it has moved the torque band up considerably and would not be a strong off road combination in my opinion. The other thing that is bothering me is I expected the engine to run badly as this is a pile of retard, I can't explain why it doesn't. It should by all rights run poorly and be overheating (from my experience on other engines). It does verify from the other link, one of the guys tried (1) tooth retard and I can say that does make things a little smoother and snappier.
In the end I didn't get what I was looking for (more rpm) so the engine is out again waiting for the cam.
A special thanks agin to "Wild" and thanks to everyone for their input.
Zaggy
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Thats good info, the carb conversion looks very cool. Strombergs were fitted as a performance mod to a lot of vehicles over here, either those or SUs. Better all round performance than Webers but not so much top end power. Do you have a thermostat on the end of that water gallery? Did you notice much difference experimenting with ignition timing? What octane fuel are you running? Sorry about all the questions but this a fascinating project.
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No problem Rhinoman
No we don't run a thermostat, we use a restrictor instead. Takes longer to warm up but eliminates a variable in testing. Ignition timing hasn't been that sensitive. If you look at the one pic you will see (2) coil packs, 1 on each side of the firewall. they are for the twin crank fire ignition system I designed. The coil packs have a built in 10 degree adv so total adv is 36 degrees on the main system. 28degrees on the start up, git it home system. About a 250rpm drop on the back up system. There is about 7 degrees adjustment in the system and it likes the most advanced but runs good through out the range. We run regular unleaded auto fuel (87 pump oct) thats why I've avoided big c/r. Bumping c/r adds around 2% hp per point bumped from my experience so I felt I could get away with out it.
Interesting note for the guys who go real high in the mountains and stuff...the CD type carbs I am using are inherently altitude compenstaing, thats why I picked them. Rhinoman is on the money that these carbs work well mid range but give a little to the webers up high. But I wanted their ability to automatically compenstate for altitude. *****Note the CD175's I'm running are probly 1 size to big for the application*** for a driver like the engine I'm building for my daughters rag I woulld highly recommend going to CD150's.
This cam thing has still got my curiousity though. I felt sure I could get the rpm I wanted with the stock cam and it's really bothering me, especially after playing with cam settings....more and more I'm bothered by the results. I have noticed there are at least (3) different upper cam gears any one got any insight?
Zag
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I understand why you use the Strombergs for an aircraft engine. When I played with the cam timing on my old race bike I got similar results, I didn't see any real improvement to the top end either. What I suspect is that you are moving back the inlet closing point which tilts the torque curve towards the top end but at the same time moving back the inlet opening point which is detrimental to cylinder filling and is cancelling out any gains. A similar thing is taking place with the exhaust timing. The long duration camshaft should fix all that
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Hi Again
  I sure hope you are right on the cam. That's why I've been experimenting to get the right answer (hopefully the first time). The altitude compesting also helps with the airboat. The variations in humidity and heights arn't a problem.
Zag
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Side benefit, according to my research the Strombergs can't get carb ice because there is no true venturi.
Zag
I'm not sure about that carb icing can be a definite problem with SUs so I would have thought that the same would apply to Strombergs. I've only got SUs now so I can't compare the two but as I recall they're very similar in design.
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Hi Rhinoman
Wow, you're the first I've run into that has encountered carb ice with this style carb. Got any more details?
The Bing carb is used extensively on ultra light and light a/c and their documentation allows them to go with no carb heat. Limbach uses the CD Strombergs and operators tell me they've never run into it.
I've also checked extensively with the guys I ussed to ice race with and they though I was nuts.
Was yours fuel supply side icing (blocking the fuel getting to the carb) or icing in the air intake side?
Zag
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Hi Rhinoman
  Wow, you're the first I've run into that has encountered carb ice with this style carb. Got any more details?
  The Bing carb is used extensively on ultra light and light a/c and their documentation allows them to go with no carb heat. Limbach uses the CD Strombergs and operators tell me they've never run into it.
  I've also checked extensively with the guys I ussed to ice race with and they though I was nuts.
  Was yours fuel supply side icing (blocking the fuel getting to the carb) or icing in the air intake side?
Zag
Zaggy
You know any preasure drop can cause icing and if if flys it should be able to be preheated if necessary. Strombergs can Ice but rarely do and when they do it is when the prop speed is up and you shut the throttle. usually if you are paying attn you will feel the stumble and be able to throttle back up before it dies. the problem is it often happens when you are busy on final and you find you are gonna be a bit short so you bump the throtle and the Ice has partially blocked the fuel jet. this causes a lean condition and the engine can die.
Bad cause you were gonna be short before, now you are short and hope there are no trees.
make it heat capable even if you don't use it.
Thanks
Wayne
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Thanks Zukizzy
I appeciate the input and you're absolutely right, if this ever goes into something that will fly it will have an alternate air source. My Dad was an accident investigator on aircraft for many years so cowardice is the greater part of valour on stuff like this.
I'm just surprised to get Rhinoman's report on the carb ice. With the Airboat its a problem because of the high humidity and variable tempatures on the water. The possibility of carb ice is quite high and I was hoping to avoid it without putting carb heat on the darn thing.
Then again I really hate paddling so I should look into it.
Zag
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Thanks Zukizzy
  I appeciate the input and you're absolutely right, if this ever goes into something that will fly it will have an alternate air source. My Dad was an accident investigator on aircraft for many years so cowardice is the greater part of valour on stuff like this.
  I'm just surprised to get Rhinoman's report on the carb ice. With the Airboat its a problem because of the high humidity and variable tempatures on the water. The possibility of carb ice is quite high and I was hoping to avoid it without putting carb heat on the darn thing.
Then again I really hate paddling so I should look into it.
Zag
Paddle??? have a drink check the oil take a swim or not if there are gators :o and it will fire right up. doesn't take long to melt that ice when you remove the low preasure and intruduce heat from the engine. VWs that ran Solexes in a dual configuration would take off the carb base heat cause cold air makes more power. Problem was they would not run well at idle or after running a while and the problem was on again off again. by the time you got the air cleaner off there was no ice. Nobody believed us when we would tell them to add the base heat. but were all shocked when a prob they had chased for years went away after adding base heat. I once drew thru a holley 4 barrel into a turbo and then a 3700cc corvair. It would freeze Ice on the outside of the carb. went like He!! on the strip but would not idle after running a while.
OK that is enough
Wayne
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  Come on I was jokin about the paddling, and gators in Alberta, they'd need parkas.
  All joking aside I agree with what you're saying and I've seen similar examples. With the airboat its operating on the rivers that actually worries me, sometimes the current makes waiting an unviable option.
  What I will probly look into is using the coolant log on the top of the manifold to heat the carb body with a direct connection of some kind. The aircraft application if it ever happens must have an alternate air source as well.
  I know what you mean about ice forming on the carb body. Back when I was young and foolish I ran a 360 Sprint Car with Hillborne injection and alcohol fuel. After a hard run of laps with the hood off there would be major frost build up......brings a new meaning to cool.
Zag
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  Come on I was jokin about the paddling, and gators in Alberta, they'd need parkas.
  All joking aside I agree with what you're saying and I've seen similar examples. With the airboat its operating on the rivers that actually worries me, sometimes the current makes waiting an unviable option.
  What I will probly look into is using the coolant log on the top of the manifold to heat the carb body with a direct connection of some kind. The aircraft application if it ever happens must have an alternate air source as well.
  I know what you mean about ice forming on the carb body. Back when I was young and foolish I ran a 360 Sprint Car with Hillborne injection and alcohol fuel. After a hard run of laps with the hood off there would be major frost build up......brings a new meaning to cool.
Zag
Alberta??? holy cow I think air boat I think the glades. I change my story save all that heat for the cabin. you are gonna need it.
thanks
Wayne
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If I'm not mistaken, even a port injection
EFI system can get some iceing if the
conditions are just right, the low pressure,
or the air acceleration (read wind chill factor)
could cause this with the right % humidity
Wild
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Alright, quit pikn on duh red neck from up here in oil country.....or was that blonde haired, blue eyed arab...anyway it ain't that bad Zukizzy, today it was 19 degrees C (68F). Besides that means no gators or killer bees.
"Wild" theoricicallyyou're correct and even injected aircraft are required to have carb heat. That said my experience has been direct port injected engines don't have any real venturi's and I have never heard of a real life example of "Carb Ice" even on FI aircraft. I have heard and seen the air intakes choked off with ice on the cowl though.
Thats the nice thing about blow through turbos, preheat.
Last joke of the day...
Whats the propeller on an airplane for?
Keeps the pilot cool....don't beleive me?
Watch him sweat if it stops!!! hahaha
Zag
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Last joke of the day...
Whats the propeller on an airplane for?
Keeps the pilot cool....don't beleive me?
Watch him sweat if it stops!!!  hahaha
Zag
LOL ;D
This thread as been all Greek to me but I get this part.
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If I'm not mistaken, even a port injection
EFI system can get some iceing if the
conditions are just right, the low pressure,
or the air acceleration (read wind chill factor)
could cause this with the right % humidity
Wild
I wondered that because there is no warm air provision on the TBI system. My guess is that its so the mainifold air temp sensor always measures ambient temperature (or close enough to it) otherwise they'd need another temp sensor to determine air temp to be able to apply corrections to the pressure sensor.
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I think you're right Rhinoman. I know some of the Boschs
multi port systems do have 2 sensors (1) in the air box and (1) in the manifold and the computer averages the temps.
By the same token it would take some eeexxxttreme conditions to get ice in the intake on most injection systems.
Zag
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Rhino, the TBI system on my 89
Kick has coolant flowing thru the
base of the Throttle body.
Oddly enough, when I was running
a 160* thermostat, I was watching the
IAT (intake air temp) on the laptop screen
watching the MegaSquirt do it's thing, and
then looked at it after I changed to a 180*
thermostat and the IAT was within 2-3* of
the previous temp. And to further compound
this oddity, when I checked the temp of the
160* thermostat it really was opening at 140*
No wonder I froze my buns off going to Moab
in 2004, I could barely get warm air out of the
heater, it's a little better with the stock Thermo
back in, but I think the heater needs a cleaning
Wild
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Heeeeyyy guys
The cam just arrived...226 degrees duration/.395" lift.
Hope to get it installed this weekend or early nest week.
I'll let you know how it works...
Zag
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;D
for grinns, do you know the stock cam specs ???
Wild
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The stock specs are (according to what I can find out)...
200 degrees duration
350" lift
New cam should (mathmatically)
- peak power |removethispart|@ 6300 rpm
- peak torque |removethispart|@ 4800rpm
Now I need to get it installed and find out if the math is right.
Zag
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If I'm not mistaken, even a port injection
EFI system can get some iceing if the
conditions are just right, the low pressure,
or the air acceleration (read wind chill factor)
could cause this with the right % humidity
Wild
Darrin you are exacly right. with the engine running pretty fast and the throttle butterfly only open slightly you have fast moving air going past the butterfly and expanding rapidly. this Expansion can cause Icing in even moderate temps. There is records of Icing happening in 70* wheather. William Wynn had a crash with a new pilot who forgot to turn on the carb heat on final Iced and came in short. In Florida in June I think but temps around 70*. The NTSB said engine failure but after salvaging the wreckage the engine started and ran with no mods. but the carb heat lever was still in the off position. You ever noticed how cold your propane bottle gets when you let out propane? That is Expansion cooling and why all intakes have some form of heat engineered into them. even if it is just ambient from the exhaust manifold.
Wow I can ramble
Wayne
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Rhino, the TBI system on my 89
Kick has coolant flowing thru the
base of the Throttle body.
Oddly enough, when I was running
a 160* thermostat, I was watching the
IAT (intake air temp) on the laptop screen
watching the MegaSquirt do it's thing, and
then looked at it after I changed to a 180*
thermostat and the IAT was within 2-3* of
the previous temp. And to further compound
this oddity, when I checked the temp of the
160* thermostat it really was opening at 140*
Wild
Thats a good point the intake manifold is heated. Out of interest how much different is IAT to ambient?
Edit: of course your air is passing through a turbo and an intercooler so it could be quite different to stock.
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at idle the IAT is around 105* but on a cool night
it will drop into the high 60* low 70* boost seems
to cause a slight rise, but only a few degrees
I don't remember the ambient and IAT temps
differential, but this big Volvo intercooler does
an absolutely outstanding job of cooling off the
turbo air, this thing is huge, big enough for an
engine 3 times the size of a 1.6, or even bigger
Wild
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Hey Wild
Doesn't the large intercooler and long flow path give you alot of lag?
Zag
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I don't think it does, lag is not really a
problem with a well matched turbo
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at idle the IAT is around 105* but on a cool night
it will drop into the high 60* low 70* boost seems
to cause a slight rise, but only a few degrees
I was thinking "Wow, thats a lot more than I expected" and then I realised you are talking Fahrenheit, lol
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Soo,Wild...you can do advanced motor math, but don't know to put a wind breaker and ear muffs on the front of your radiator when the outside weather is COLD AS HELL ? Did you remember to wear YOUR coat ::) I heard the weather was nice and sunny Moab 2004. Moab 2005 was a mixture of all Mother Nature had offer.
Anyway, I'll bring all my hard brainy stuff to you and you come to me for the really basic stuff. Sounds like a good trade to me. ;D
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All I had on the Kick was a Bikini Top
and the Duster Cover, I didn't expect
it to be so cold, 2005 I went with the
full top, and an electric heater ;D Thanks
Nate and Heather for letting me plug in
Wild
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Boy you guys pikin on "Wild"
Wild with your Turbo, what c/ratio are you running and you mentioned at one point a specail cam. Any specs? What internal prep did you do? This is starting to intrigue me.
Zag
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I used all stock internals, the only
mod is Stainless Exhaust Valves, I
had the cam reground by Engle cams
in Santa Monica Ca. I don't remember
the specs, and I have moved twice since
never found the tag, so I don't know.
I asked the shop for a VW GTI grind, since
I know how those run, and he shows me the
cam profile of mine, and says there is a hump
in the profile on the Suzuki cam, ramping off of
the closing side, and that a Pinto cam was like
that. So I asked for a little more performance
but I still wanted to pass smog, and that's what
he gave me. So it's a Pinto performance profile
and there are lots of Pinto 2.3L engine grinds,
from mild to wild (no pun intended) ;)
CR is 9.1:1 I thought stock was 8.9:1, the next
build will be 16V forged pistons and I'm going to
mill the tops off for lower CR, should run like a banshee
;D
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so 16v pistions will fit and give more compression in an 8v? what kind of compression are we talkin? under 11:1?
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No, I think the 16V pistons are a little lower
on an 8V engine, I'm swapping to a 16V
head as well, and milling the pistons for
lower compression, I'm going to have the
squish ring around the outside of the piston
milled off, I might even take off a little more
to reduce compression further.
The other thing that could be done would
be to have a set of custom forged rods made
in 5mm shorter length, but then I might be
tempted to stroke the motor and be back at higher
compression, 5mm shorter rod would give you
up to 10 mm stroke increase, which would be
about 1770cc with a stock bore, go out 1mm
on the bore and get a 1790cc engine
;D
Make a 1.8 from a 1.6 ??? 1590cc is the actual
displacement of out 1.6L engines, so it could be
done, but the crank has to be re-ballanced to work
right, but very doable
Wild
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I got this link off Izook
http://tighecams.com.au/cars.htm
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Kent Cams have cams for the 1ltr and 1.3Ltr engines but don't list the 1.6. They do list an alloy pulley for the 1.6 engine but don't say if its adjustable (probably is)
http://www.kentcams.com/index.htm
Its possible that the 1.3 and 1.6 cams are interchangeable, I think I read that somewhere.
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I got this link off Izook
[url]http://tighecams.com.au/cars.htm[/url]
That would be from me ;D Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll drive it and see how my new grind feels on my 16v then it will be off to a dyno when I get a chance to see what differences I can acheive with altering the cam(adjustable cam gear) and ignition timings.
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That would be from me  ;D Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll drive it and see how my new grind feels on my 16v then it will be off to a dyno when I get a chance to see what differences I can acheive with altering the cam(adjustable cam gear) and ignition timings.
I thought I recognised the name ;D
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Sorry for taking so long to response Rhinoman, I've been real busy at work.
The fwd cams physically fit the cylinder head but have no provision for runnin the distributor. You have to convert to a distributroless system like I did. (not a bad thing). But you can get the same profile ground onto a 1.6 core camshaft.
Taking what you guys have all said about needing mid to low range torque I'd be real careful how much duration was added though.
Zag
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I bet the idea of 'fuel economy' when modifying a motor like that is totally out of the question...
8)
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nice work ;D
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Ok guys are you ready
Busted my buns all weekend and got the new cam installed. Got tired of messing back and forth so mounted the whole mess on the aircraft I've been working on. (No it will come off after testing is all finished).
The new cam has 28 degrees more duration and .065 more lift. Total 228 duration/.415 lift advertised
Results
- Idles lopey at 1100 rpm
- Max rpm 5900rpm loaded with prop |removethispart|@ 17-18 degrees
pitch. (about 56" according to the chart)
- Works out to a prop rpm of 2657
Working it back from other known certified combinations (Rotax 912S 100hp) this is approx 114 hp |removethispart|@ 5900rpm
Throttle response is great from about 3000rpm up, (loaded by the prop)......I think it's a little much cam for a 4WD but I need to do some more tuning and testing including thrust testing before I can verify this combination....but I'm close enough to my targets to be happy.
I was only trying to get 100hp |removethispart|@ 6000rpm so this might be 100 rpm short but it's way more power than I expected.
I was planning on using a 226 duration/395 lift cam, but was able to get this one quicker, probly would have got virtually the same results with a titch better idle.
Made a couple of other decisions as well...
- The other 8v is going in the airplane if everything
checks out with this one on the airboat, that one will
get the very slightly milder cam.
- The daughters rag is going to get a 1.6/16v built up
the same way as the (2) 8v's.
But first I need to finish with this engine and get it throughly tested and get the 2.0l in the wifes 4dr Kick.
I want to thank everyone for their input, it helped me make up my mind on the direction to go with solving this glitch.
I also hope this little excersise helps out other people with the experience.
Till the testing is finished...
Zag
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If you don't mind Zag, where did the
Cam you used come from ? and how
much was it ?
Wild
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Good to hear it's progressing in the right direction. :)
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How is the mixture looking at low rpm. Is there much evidence of blowback? 115bhp is a good result, nice work.
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Hi guys
Wild .....
The cam is one that got done locally, shop had never done a suzuki grind and had a profile they wanted to try so I'm the test rat....I traded him some parts for it and supplied the cam core, if it checks ok on my engine he's going to want $190.00 USD, but doesn't want to go ahead until we get some time on this one.
Rhinoman.....
No evidence of any blow back...yet. My worry at this point is durability...I've used this fellow in years gone by for custom grinds on Nissan race engines, but this is new ground.
I need to do some additional testing before I could recommend this cam for street or even off road use. Idle is ok but pretty lopey, doesn't seem to be richening up at idle (1100rpm) but I need to get some time on it. Throttle response is a little funny under 3000rpm, but then again this whole combo is kind of odd. Over 3000rpm throttle response is sharp and instantanious. Pulls real hard from 3500ish up to 5900rpm. I'll be doing some more testing the next couple of nights and hope to geet verifiable hp numbers to refer on. I just like to be cautious.
Zag
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My cam cost me $200 so I guess the price
is about right.
Pinto 2.3L cams are similar, and would be a
good benchmark for how a cam would run, of
coarse you need to compensate for the smaller
displacement by not going too big on lift or too
much duration
Wild
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Well you think you run your Suzuki HARD....
  Ran the engine for (4) hours last night, other than initial start up and cool down it ran at wide open throttle the entire time...(5900rpm), that right about 3hr and 45 min at WOT.
  Ran excellent, cooling fine, oil temp good, no leaks no runs no errors.
  Prop pitch set at 18 degrees, peak horsepower relates to approx 113-4 hp. Peak rpm is 5900 and no amount of tweakin will get it higher but I'm happy.
  I'll report actual thrust testing as it is another good cross check for power but I thinks I gots me a wiener.
  Tonight we recheck everything and go for another (4) hour run to check reliability...
If you haven't been following...5900 doesn't sound great till you realize thats loaded with a prop.
Zag
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Awsome work dude ;D
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I guess this may be the last info entry on this thread...
Last night we did the final test runs on the engine
- 5 min to warm up
- 5 min to cool down
- 3hrs and 50 min at wide open throttle
(5900rpm loaded with prop at 17-18 degrees)
Ran excellent, no problems at all. Plugs checked clean. No issues at all.
Haven't done the final thrust testing yet, but initial numbers look like 415lbs at max power using a pull spring scale. This combined with the prop setting has me confident we have 113-114hp |removethispart|@ 5900rpm.
From a driving vehicle perspective....
- Carbs should be CD150 Strombergs instead of
CD175's...they are a titch big.
- The 226/395 cam would work better for a vehicle, the
228/415 idle and peak power seem a little much for a
street/trail driver, but probly ok for a 2WD cruiser.
- Fuel burn...
Over the almost 4hr we averaged 17.9 litres per hour,
about 4.2 US gallons per hour...put it into perspective,
thats about 24 miles per gallon on an airplane at 120
mph...this would be a reasonably economical vehicle
engine.
It's strong, reliable and sounds awesome, I'm going to finish the twin to this engine with the CD175 carbs and the 226/395 camshaft and it's going in our airplane...damn this thing works well.
Now I have to finish the mounts for the 2.0L going into my wife 4dr kick....till next time
Zag
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Hi guys
  I wanted to take a second to thank "Wild" for hosting the engine pics for me, I admit to being a computer dufus. Thanks Wildgoody.
  The specs for the engine are listed under  "highperformance engine glitch" if you're interested.
  The carbs are strombergs and sikid-01 you are right they were off a TR-7. (CD175's) It's been a really neat but long drawn out project, check out the other thread for details.
  The guys on this site have been great with help diagnosing the glitch I've been fighting and I really appreciate it.
  As of last night and doing a pile of cam adjusting I'm still not getting full rpm but thrust tests are showing we are up to 100hp (approx) at 5000rpm.
  I listed the results of the experiment on cam retarding earlier but it looks like it got zorched by the hacker so I'll list it again here.
  The problem has been getting the engine to pull over
5000rpm. Goes to 5000rpm runs excellent but won't pull higher. From the advice I got here and a whole bunch or research I've diagnosed it to needing more cam. So I've ordered a cam. But while waiting for the cam I couldn't resist trying something different. Soooo
Test 1) -Engine was removed, all adjustments and
       systems verified correct.
      -Camshaft was retarded (1) tooth
Engine ran a little better, good throttle response under prop load, no additional rpm, no measurable power gain.
Test 2) -Camshaft retarded a total of (2) teeth
Engine runs very well, torque moved up 500-1000rpm, excellent mid range throttle response under p[rop load, ran a little cooler with extended (10-15min) wide open throttle. But no additional rpm (still max 5000rpm), but we were able to add another 1-2 degrees of pitch to the prop which indicates a slight power increase.
  Words of caution, I wouldn't recommend this setting for 4wd, it has moved the torque band up considerably and would not be a strong off road combination in my opinion. The other thing that is bothering me is I expected the engine to run badly as this is a pile of retard, I can't explain why it doesn't. It should by all rights run poorly and be overheating (from my experience on other engines). It does verify from the other link, one of the guys tried (1) tooth retard and I can say that does make things a little smoother and snappier.
  In the end I didn't get what I was looking for (more rpm) so the engine is out again waiting for the cam.
A special thanks agin to "Wild" and thanks to everyone for their input.
Zaggy
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This should be the last report
  The engine has been working well, freinds have mine have been using it over the last few days while I have been finishing a huge project for the Alberta Aviation Museum (as a volunteer).
  It has worked so well in fact it is coming off and going on to my airplane.
  The en gine has put on almost 25hrs most of it at wide open throttle and given impressive results.
  Thanks to Wild and everyone else for their advixe and interest.
Now I have to finish the other 8v to replace this one and then get back to the 2.0L swap thats half done.
Now Wild has my interest up on blower motors and I was lookin at the 2.7 Vitara and figure............
Zag
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Finally....
   Since the engine was switched to the aircraft we have been testing and sorting and taking care of airframe snags.
   Yesterday Transport Canada finally signed her off........first flight is imminent
I will post pics.........
Zag
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We want pics ;D ;D
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Hey Rhinoman
You wanted pics.....here's one from just before the first flight, more once I recharge the camera so I can download.
Zag
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Just an update for those interested...
This project has worked out pretty well, flight testing is complete and the engine has about 120hrs flight and ground test time on it now.
- Climb 800 fpm
-Cruise 120mph
-Top 130mph
Engine runs well but due to our cold weather (-20 to -30C) I've had a lot of cold start problems.
Solution....starting building a custom multi port fuel injection system.
Engine currently puts out 110-115hp |removethispart|@ 6000rpm based on thrust and performance of aircraft.
With the multi point injection I hope to maintain the performance and beat the cold start
Zag
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;) Zaggy, You are amazing! That is one hellofa project. KUDOS!
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Thanks Bentparts
Next project coming up aircraft wise is a 1.3/8valve should be about 80-85 hp and is destined for another homebuilt.
Currently have several 1.0's flying
1.3/8 valve out there somewhere on an airboat
1.6/8valve on this aircraft
1.6/8valve in my current sideKick that will become test project this spring
1.6/16 valve to be swapped for a 2.0/16valve if I ever get back to working on it (wifes Kick)
It's fun to play
Zaggy
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Zag,
God to hear it's holding up for you good. Good to see you back again ;) Have a great week and keep us updated.
Zig
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Hey Rhinoman
You wanted pics.....here's one from just before the first flight, more once I recharge the camera so I can download.
Zag
Hey, Zaggy is that camera still on charge??
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Boy am I loosing it...
Soon as I get near my home computer I will post some pics Rhinoman
Zaggy
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;D Zaggy, excellent job on your plane....could you give me some advice on my drag racing 1.6L Geo Tracker......I am needing some additional HP. Look below for my video site. 17.5 sec. |removethispart|@ 73mph.
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Hi Psykochi
Be glad to help...I used to drag race myself, last car was a 240Z (love teasing V-8's), over 100mph in the 1/4 on reg fuel no blowers or electronics.
Whole car was built for less than a strong V-8.
Can I get some basic info
-weight
-gear ratio
-tire size
-engine internals including cam (if not stock)
-current bolt on goodies (type of intake/exhaust, any EFI mods, stock ignition or modified?)
-listening to the video I assume it's a 5 speed
Zag
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Here the pics I promised Rhinoman
Zag
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nother one
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So with a 1600/8valve Sidekick engine does that make it the highest/ fastest tracker?
Zag
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Thats cool, good to see it in the air ;D
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Meant to add this one earlier
Zag
BTW
max altitude so far in testing 12,000 feet
max speed so far 145mph in a shallow dive
max cruise so far in level flight 120mph
Still some work to do on the airframe