ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: Davyboy on June 19, 2007, 10:57:11 AM
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Found a good price on the Japanese built 5.13 Sidekick front diff and CV axles for my 1999 GV, so I think I'll pick them up now, then continue searching for the rear 5.13. When I do this diff swap, I will lose the ability to shift on the fly, won't I?? I already have WARN manual hubs, but I can lock them and then perform shift on the fly like normal. However, it looks like I lose the shift on the fly because I'll no longer have the pnuematic diff. So, I'll have to engage 4wd from a stop, right? Thanks for the info.
Dave
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.... it looks like I lose the shift on the fly because I'll no longer have the pnuematic diff. So, I'll have to engage 4wd from a stop, right?
Well, I don't see why you can't do it like on a '89-'98 Sidekick/Tracker:
Lock the manual hubs, then drive off and shift from 2Hi to 4Hi and back by pressing the clutch pedal, just like a regular gearshift. They can do it, as long as the wheels are pointing straight ahead. Works fine on my X-90 ;)
Should actually be a bit better, becuase there's a synchro device between 2WD and 4WD in the 2nd gen. TC.
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Yeah.....I forgot about that. Pushing in the clutch should allow me to shift into 4HI while moving with the old style diff. So, this brings up a question, though. How did SOTF work in earlier generation automatic transmission Sidekicks and Trackers? I can understand needing to push in the clutch on the manual transmission models. But, what about the automatics? Did they use an air actuated diff like the GVs? Strange....
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On my '96 it's basically just that I need to be going a constant speed under 35mph when I shift into 4hi. Did it several times last winter.
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Yeah.....I forgot about that. Pushing in the clutch should allow me to shift into 4HI while moving with the old style diff. So, this brings up a question, though. How did SOTF work in earlier generation automatic transmission Sidekicks and Trackers? I can understand needing to push in the clutch on the manual transmission models. But, what about the automatics? Did they use an air actuated diff like the GVs? Strange....
No difference in the diff on the auto models. I guess when you lift your foot off the gas pedal, the torque converter more-or-less stops transmitting torque, so pretty well the same as de-clutching.
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So....on to my next question regarding this process. When I get the 5.13 diffs put in, the writeup mentions creating a hybrid axles, using the Sidekick inner axle shafts. I think I read that somebody did this diff swap and found no difference between the GV and Sidekick stub. With the diff offset by about an inch (toward the passenger side) because of the air actuator, it makes sense that there would be a difference in the length of both inner axles. Anybody out there able to confirm this?? Thanks.
Dave
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So....on to my next question regarding this process. When I get the 5.13 diffs put in, the writeup mentions creating a hybrid axles, using the Sidekick inner axle shafts. I think I read that somebody did this diff swap and found no difference between the GV and Sidekick stub. With the diff offset by about an inch (toward the passenger side) because of the air actuator, it makes sense that there would be a difference in the length of both inner axles. Anybody out there able to confirm this?? Thanks.
Dave
Since I did the work that became the article, I can tell you from holding both in my hands at the same time, there is a difference. The GV stub will be too short for the application, due to the offset from the air diff.
The drivers side needs a Kick inner shaft (prefered) or you can cut down the GV shaft (cob).
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Thanks for the info Tim. It seems pretty logical that the length of the stubs would have to change. Hopefully, I won't break an axle after this swap. I would probably have to get both CV axle types (Sidekick and GV) if I break one of these. Let's see if I understand this right. After the swap:
The passenger side (R) inner axle will be Sidekick?
The passenger side outer CV axle will be Grand Vitara?
The driver side (L) inner axle will also be Sidekick?
And the driver side (L) outer CV axle will be Grand Vitara?
Forgive me...I'm not a mechanic....but wouldn't it be the perfect time to replace the rubber CV boots when this is done? There are a couple on each side, right? Thanks again for your help.
Dave
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Do the 3rd members have to come from a 96-98?
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Yep. 96 and up have the same 26 spline count on the inner axles. 95 and down have 22.
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Yep. 96 and up have the same 26 spline count on the inner axles. 95 and down have 22.
Ok, so that goes for the front and the rear? Can the older ones have the 26 spline side gears swapped into them?
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Doesn't matter in the rear. They always had the same axle spline count. We recently put a '90 rear diff in my '96. Just some of the internal bits changed that don't affect "bolt-in-ability".
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So what is the advantage of the 12 bolt over the 10 bolt?
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Not sure really. I couldn't tell you but some of the guys on here could tell you exactly what the difference is. I'm assuming strength.
I just wanted 5.12's to get my power and mpg back as it's my DD and isn't wheeled.
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Ok, so to install 5.12's into my 2000 GV I really only need just the front R&P gears (installed on my GV carrier) from any year trackick or from 96-98 if I want to use the trackick carrier instead of my GV carrier?
For the rear, any 3rd member will bolt up but the 92 - 98 12 bolt may be stronger?
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The advantage of the front Tracker/Kick diff is that it doesn't have all the SOTF crap. Use a steel GV housing and the 96-98 guts and you've eliminated the SOTF junk.
I've also heard talk that a Sami rear carrier with four pinions could be made to work and would be stronger. Again, out of my realm of expertise so I'd try and ask around on the main forum.
In the rear...I think so.
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Thanks, I'll ask the question there as well.
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Rear is direct bolt in. 12 bolt it a stronger carrier than the 10 bolt.
In the front, you can use a Sammy carrier, but requires a bit of machine work to accomdate the c-clips on the IFS axles.
Use the GV 3rd member if it steel, and move the Kick R&P and carrier over to it. Otherwise, a 96-98 Kick pig will bolt in if you go with the soda can housing.
The Driver side need the inner shaft from the Kick. The entire GV CV shaft is kept on the Driver side. On the pass side, swap the Kick CV stub onto the GV intermediate shaft and GV outter CV. Basically, it's a hybrid shaft.
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Why would you want to use the Samurai carrier, whats wrong with the GV or Track/kick carrier?
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Why would you want to use the Samurai carrier, whats wrong with the GV or Track/kick carrier?
For one reason, it's stronger. 4-pin carrier vs. 3 pin, and a far stronger design (huh, like carriers are what breaks on Zooks. LOL)
Also, Sammy carrier accepts lunchbox lockers easiely (again, with machining).
But TT has modified Kick carriers now that are 4 pin instead of 2. Might be cheaper if you don't have mill access.