ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: toofaroffroad on August 07, 2007, 11:07:42 PM
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If you owned a 2.0 ltr 99 tracker with 31's and you had a choice, what would you do: 2.5 v6 conversion or 5:13 sidekick gears. Please don't say both cause i don't have the money for that. I am in a position with my mechanic where it would be the same price for either job.
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I'd go for the V6; all that low-down torque, and plenty of power at the top end should take care of the larger tyres.
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You'll get better mileage with the 2.0 and gears. Probably 6-7 mpg net with the tall tires.
But if you can somehow get either done for the same money......you wouldn't believe how the added hp/torque of the V6 changes the whole personality of the truck. To my ear, this is a silly question.
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Zook Big Block.
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Gears.
Never mistake added power for proper mechanical advantage.
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Gears.
Never mistake added power for proper mechanical advantage
UHHHH WHAT!?
add the power then later when you have more money switch gears
otherwise you'll kick your self in the ass later when you don't have enough power
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You ever had an under geared vehicle before?
I've had several and two that were really bad. My Ranger on 31's with a V6 and 3.27 gears and this Tracker on 31's with 4.30 gears. Hills winded the things right out, starting to move was a long, slow process, and low range wasn't all that impressive. Gas mileage also took a hit with both.
Regeared both so they were slightly over geared. 4.56's and 33's on the Ranger and 5.12's with the 31's on the Tracker. Both were IMMENSELY changed. The Tracker can maintain 50-55mph up a steep, long (couple miles) hill I drive every day while before it was a struggle to get to the top at over 45mph...usually 40mph. The Ranger immediately went from 11-12mpg to 15mpg and I could pass people! Heck, I can pass people with the Tracker now! It'll even do 75mph without sweating! Before it had to go downhill with a tail wind, long "run up", and have momentum to even hit 70mph. If I was going into the wind there was no way!
Regear first. It's cheaper and easier and you can lock your axles, upgrade to better carriers/diff housings, etc first and THEN start thinking about doubling your horse power and all the stuff it will break.
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Well it looks like I've really openned up some good debate. Personally I'm leaning towards the gears. I'm happy with the power and fuel economy of my little 2.0 ltr. Really the v6 is only about 20 more HP isn't it? i'm looking for better highway gears and better trail gear for crawling over stuff. How much more gas does the V6 suck up. right now with my 31's on I get approx 580 klm's to a tank I think thats around 365 miles.
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Go with an automatic with the V6 and laugh at the silly, puny gear girlies.
C'mon AJMBLAZER, let's hear it.
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Really the v6 is only about 20 more HP isn't it?
No.
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stock according to epa figures there is a 2mpg avg difference with equal vehicles
thers a 45hp and 40lbft difference and with either 4.62 or 4.88 gears already that would make a big difference
my 04 v6 has 31's with 4.30 gears and it drives fine but four wheel high burnouts are hard on the clutch
and even if you put 5.13s in you are still not back to factory gearing so it will still feel under powered especially if its a four door
also some times power can gain you mileage if used properly
by not working the engine as hard to get up to or maintain speed
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It'll even do 75mph without sweating!
Never do, 'cause the soft top screams $300 replacement fear into my heart, but I can clear 110 mph easily. I can also merge like the wind whenever I want to. Subtract some MPH by adding tall tires and I'll still scoff at "I can pass people with the Tracker now!"... Puh-leeeez. On stock tires I'm doing 6.9 0-60s. With an automatic. Breathing through the 2.0's stock exhaust.
If you only want to crawl, nothing beats gears. If you only want MPGs, go small displacement. If you only want to crawl and get great MPG, you're set with what you've got + gears.
Is that all you want? Seriously? Cost no object?? Just crawling and MPG??? Get the gears.
Add anything else into the mix, though.....if you're confused, you're thinking too hard.
You can add gears later when cost does matter, but a sub-300 dollar 27%+ power increase will likely never present itself again.
Bang for the buck, brother. Bang For The Buck.
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HP on the V6's is in the 150-165 range...I think. Varies over the years and 2.5L vs 2.7L.
Our GV and XL7, both with autos, got/get in the upper teens for gas mileage. The GV was good for 19mpg around town and the XL7 a little less. The 29's seem to have taken a mpg or two off on average. Add a couple more mpg for highway.
It's smaller and a different motor but my 1.6L 16V with the 3 speed NON-OD trans gets 20.5mpg with me driving hard all day long pushing 31's. Oh yeah, and 170k or more on the engine.
I know I'm going against the grain here but I'm basing this on my experiences. I'd regear it first. Proper gears can make a vehicle literally 100% better than it used to be. I've seen this first hand many times.
Happen to know what gears are in yours now?
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*toofaroffroad - right now with my 31's on I get approx 580 klm's to a tank I think thats around 365 miles.*
are you serious. i don't want to sound like an arse but i find that next to impossible to believe. my 2.0 on 31x9.5 swampers get nowhere close to that on the hwy. with a 50L tank that is less than 10L per 100km! unless you have more tank on your tracker than mine! - i hope for my sake. i currently have stock gearing - 5spd and 4.62's. ???....
oh, and if you're engine is not high mileage and runs fine without burning up fluids don't F with it!
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2drs have 15 gal tank (56.77L)
4drs have 17 gal tank (64.35L)
580km =360mi
so mpg are 24 if its a 2dr or 21 if its a 4dr
assuming he is using the whole tank and no extra (like in the fill neck)
Proper gears can make a vehicle literally 100% better than it used to be.
so can the power to weight ratio
2dr curb weight 2500 120hp stock lbs/hp 21 w/v6 15
4dr lbs/hp 25 w/v6 18
thats more than the difference between a v6 and v8 mustang
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I understand the diff gears are:
4.30X:1 Grand manual (XL-7 manual)
4.625:1 Base 2.0L manual
So by keeping the 4.625, but fitting the V6 engine and transmission, you already have a geared down GV fit, ratio 1.075.
As you have upgeared by ratio 1.15 with the 31" tyres, the result would be like having a GV with 29" tyres. It seems like lots of guys are content with that.
If you later want to fit the 5.13s, you would have the equivalent of a GV on stock tyres. You can always fit them later, but the cheap V6 fit is a once-in-a-lifetime, isn't it?
Btw, fitting the 5.13s and keeping the 2.0 engine and transmission wouild result in the equivalent of 26" tyres, i.e. undergeared, so your highway cruising revs would be higher than now.
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Somehow I doubt you can do an engine swap for $300.
I might as well say that now. Either the mechanic is a relative, owes him A LOT, or just doesn't know what he's getting in to. I think beer mentioned that the 99+ 4cyl stuff won't work with the V6 stuff, and I remember someone said that regarding the 1.6L 16v stuff vs the V6 stuff. So he's talking about a new engine, transmission, and probably transfer case along with all the wiring and computers. Then there's cooling systems and mounting it all...
Does he even have all of this stuff yet?
$300? Sure, maybe if you were dropping a small block into a Chevy pickup in place of a 6 cylinder...maybe...
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BZZR2, my tracker is a 1999 2.0ltr. I don't know the size of the tank. From a full tank to empty my guage tells me I've usually put around 510 to 525 klms. I don't know the exact difference but I've added 10% on top of that for my bigger tires. That brings me up to about 570 doesn't it or am I doing something wrong.
FYI before the tires swap I was getting well over 625 klms to a tank.
Anyway, that is a little off topic, the truck goes in on monday for 5:13 gears front and rear. Thanks for all the info and opinions. i'm sure some time within the next year I'll probably save up and drop in a V6 anyway.
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that's better than i've ever gotten! 2dr or 4dr? i'll be curious to see how the gears workout! the way you are calculating is correct, i just to the same 10%, it's close enough and nice and easy to work with!
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Gears.
Never mistake added power for proper mechanical advantage.
You are way off base there. It's common for auto makes to run shorter ratios in higher HP autos.
Just look at Suzuki to see that.
1995 Sidekick 1.6L 16V 4spd auto - 5.12:1
2000 GV 2.5L 32V 4spd auto - 4.88:1
2001 XL7 2.7l 32V 4spd auto - 5.12:1
All of these have the same auto tranny, same tranny gear ratios. When the V6 came along, the diff ratios dropped, as the HP increased. 5.12s would have been too tall.
XL7 even with increased HP, due to increased weight and seating cap, went back to 5.12.
For a Kick, adding the V6 is going to offset the shorter gears. The proof is in the puddin'.
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Gears are in and the truck drives amazing. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that my 1999 tracker actaully had a 4:67 gear set and not the 4:88 I thought it had. with my 5:12 sidekick gears it's so nice on and off the highway. Night and day difference. also just installed the Iron man suspension lift with coil spacers. The truck is driving and feeling great with these coils. If anyone is considering the gear switch...do it. Thanks for everyones help and imput.
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sounds good, keep us posted on how things go! i'm curious again about your gas mileage...
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Good to hear it's going well. Keep us updated.
I still maintain there's no such thing as a $300 Suzuki V6 engine swap. :P