ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Fity on June 08, 2005, 02:34:28 PM
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On a 1.6l 16v there is two positions to line up the cam timing pulley onto the cam key as well as two timing marks on the outer edge. I have always used the one that it was originally set on. Does anyone know what the other setting is for? Does it advance or retard the timing? Which is better? ???
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The pin in the cam, where the pulley
goes, should be up, and the cam pulley
mark goes down, 1 tooth retard will move
the peak HP and torque up in the RPM
band, and advancing will move it down.
Best to put it back at the stock location
unless you are an engine guru and like
to tinker, like a Zaggy I know ;)
Wild
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Thanks Wild, but my cam pulley has two notches to locate it onto the cam and two marks for timing. I am thinking that for some reason Suzuki has two valve timings for different markets. Maybe it is only an Australian thing? ???
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Well which ever line up like I said
would be the ones I'm familiar with.
I suppose there is a posability that
the engines are slightly different from
here to there, but I don't see how too
radical of a change in timing could be
for 2 different markets, an engine only
runs well at about the propper timing.
I know that there are 2 marks, one has
an I and one has an E, I presume these
are intake and exhaust, but I'm not sure
Wild
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give us a picture. maybe there are three marks, I, E and a dot? how many keyways does it have?
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mrfuelish, There are 2 marks "I" and "E". "E" being the one that is standard. On closer inspection it looks like it may be slightly retarded. I was guessing that it had something to do with other markets having better or worse grade fuels.
Wild, I have seen the same pulleys on Aussie 16v,Jap import 16v, Jap import Swift 16v. I was assuming that they all had them. :)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/suzukidiesel/MVC-343F.jpg)
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They do that for emissions here like in the state of california, look up a 1970 460 ford and then look up a 1974 ford 460 and look at the horse power diffrence, I think there trying to keep the gasses in the combustion chamber longer for a better burn but in turn loosing some horse power by doing so. you should be able to take a streight line across the key to the middle of the bolt to find the standard mark.
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I was refering to the pin in the cam, or at
least that's what I was thinking of, it should
point up, in reality, it doesn't matter where
the pulley is, it matters where the cam is, the
marks on the pulley are for your convienience ;)
Wild
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I got the rule and protractor out and my guestimates are that the "I" mark will advance the cam by 1 Deg. :)
So going from what Wild said it will move the Torque and HP down. Would it also change the peak HP and Torque?
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As I understand it, the torque and HP
move, but remain the same, I think you
need a higher lift cam for more HP
Zaggy, you want to fill us in on this ?
Wild
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I got the rule and protractor out and my guestimates are that the "I" mark will advance the cam by 1 Deg. :)
So going from what Wild said it will move the Torque and HP down.  Would it also change the peak HP and
Torque?
I reckon thats 41 teeth on that sprocket, the bottom isn't too clear. So 1 tooth is 180 degs/41 = 4.4 degs/tooth, Zaggy didn't report any real difference moving two teeth so I doubt if 1 degree will make any noticeable difference at all or even 2 degrees (is that 1deg at cam or 1 deg at crank?).
Altering the cam timing 'tilts' the torque curve, imagine what it looks like plottted on a graph. Stick a pin in the centre of the line and then push one end up and down a bit. Power = (torque *rpm)/n.
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Rhinoman, Are you saying that the HP and Torque curves will increase slightly at one end of the curve, but decrease from the other, if you advance or retarding the cam? ???
BTW there is 40 teeth, so 4.5deg/tooth so my 1 deg might be closer to 1/2deg. :)
I would have thought that changing the timing would be more benifical then changing the cam timing by 1/2deg. But I could be wrong. :)
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Sorry I didn't reply earlier guys I've been buried at the aviation museum on a real special project.
  "Wildgoody" is right, playing with the cam timing typically only moves where the power is made not really how much you get. You have to alter lift and duration to change the amount of power. If you check out the thread where I reported on it it gives the data from real world testing.
  I haven't had a chance to look at a 16v lately (don't have one in the shop apart right now) but I believe mrfuelish is right in that it has to do with different emission requirements in different markets.
  By the by if you figure you're moving the cam timing 4.5 degrees guess again...because of the effect of the 2:1 ratio on the cam you are actually moving the cam 9 degrees...I have not played with the 16v so I would not recommend messing past factory settings for fear of damaging things.
  Search cam timing and hit the test results from my 8v experiments I think it will be help ful and I learned it all the hard way.
  Good call on this one "Wild" I thik you hit the nails right on the head with your responses.
Zag
ps
After getting a chance to look at the picture, I think the e/i refer to the intake and exhaust as someone else mentioned and I'll bet if anyone has the chance to check that the sohc 16v cam pulley is the same as the dohc cam pulleys and the settings are for which cam they are on with the dohc....
Zag
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moving the cam gear should not affect your distributor timing because you still time it by the crank, you can advance the timing untill it pings and them back off a little bit for top end or retard it for bottom end or towing running cheap gas ect. the less weight your rig weights the more you can advance it and run a lower octain fuel.
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Hi guys
I found the info on the thread "pics of zaggy's engine" and was going to quote it here but messed up and ended up moving that thread to the top of the list.
Sorry.......but it's good info
Zag
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Rhinoman, Are you saying that the HP and Torque curves will increase slightly at one end of the curve, but decrease from the other, if you advance or retarding the cam?  ???
Yeah thats right. If you calculate total power as the area under the torque curve then you can gain a bit of top end at the expense of some bottom end OR you can gain a bit of bottom end at the expense of a bit of top end but for small adjustments the area under the torque curve doesn't change. Thats the theory anyway, in practice it doesn't always work out. Theres more potential with a 16V as you can alter the intake timing independant of the exhaust but you always need to be a bit vareful as you will be reducing valve to piston clearances on the overlap
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Theres more potential with a 16V as you can alter the intake timing independant of the exhaust but you always need to be a bit vareful as you will be reducing valve to piston clearances on the overlap
On a SOHC? ???
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Thanks Guys. :)
Lots of info to make sense of. I guess that giving it a whirl may be the best way to find out.
There is clearance between the piston and valves with a standard lift cam, so re timing it shouldn't cause any major problems. I found this out after having a timing belt break. ::)
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Rather than spend all that time and effortmessing with the valve timing...start with something more effective, like a low restriction exhaust and good airfilter. You'll be happier with the overall result
Zag
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Thanks Zag, I've already got headers, straight though fiberglass packed muffler and 2" all the way. The Air filter is a K&N when on road, I find that it doesn't filter that good on dusty trail. :)
I'm just looking for that bit extra to turn the 31's.
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hey fity
check out the info on my engine thread about cams, more power needs more lift and more duration...be careful too much makes a rever not a torker
Zag