ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: GRVIT on November 11, 2004, 07:26:15 AM
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I m going for a SAS to my Sidekick.The problem is that the Sidekick's t-case has no slip yoke eliminators.With a SAS,the truck can be lifted significantly more than with IFS.Also flex increases dramatically.This means that without SYEs, I can either have limited lift-flex set up,or the driveshafts will be poping out of the t-case.As far as I know there are two ways to overcome this problem.First is to go with double t-cases and the other is to make SYEs.There is a way to make them as I ve been told,but I m a bit afraid of drilling and tapping the t-case output shafts.
So I thought if its possible to replace the Sidekick's transmission case -t-case with a Sammy one (with its t-case).This way ,I think I can even use the stock Sammy driveshafts for the beggining even with the addition of driveshaft spacers(not sure) and not having to buy new adjustable ones.Then I can add rockcrawlers in the sammy t-case and thus have lower high range as well as low range.A much more cheaper way than modifying the Sidekick's t-case.
I found this as I was searching
(http://www.trailtough.com/images/new1.6kit3_small.jpg)
and "This adapter kit uses Trail Tough's original tried and proven 2-stage stud design for adapting the 1.6 engine to the Samurai. It eliminates the need for drilling or welding and makes installation of the transmission easier than ever before! Just bolt it on."
And from what I read (waiting an answer from trail-tough) I think its possible.
Since I m not experienced with mods,I would like to have your thougths on this,if you think its possible,possible drawbacks,e.t.c
thanks
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Just get a Kicker3... easier than swapping the rest of the sammy drivetrain along with the Tcase. Plus, with a 2door, the kicker3 will give you less of an extreme driveshaft angle.
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The Sidekick transmission is stronger and you had better think about what size rubber you want to run because your gearing will be altered significantly and even more so if you change the gears in the Samurai t-case.
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Yes that kit would adapt your motor to the 1.3 trans But like other hacve said you would be going backward the kick trans is stonger. Does anyone have a good pic of the outputs on the Kick case.. I might beable to machine a SYE it. I wont have a kick in the shop for another wk or so but if there any good pics i can start the wheels turning..
-Scott
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The Sidekick transmission is stronger and you had better think about what size rubber you want to run because your gearing will be altered significantly and even more so if you change the gears in the Samurai t-case.
I have 5,83:1 r & p's ,I m running now 31x10,5x15 and I m planning on puting 33's max.
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Yes that kit would adapt your motor to the 1.3 trans But like other hacve said you would be going backward the kick trans is stonger. Does anyone have a good pic of the outputs on the Kick case.. I might beable to machine a SYE it. I wont have a kick in the shop for another wk or so but if there any good pics i can start the wheels turning..
-Scott
Wish I did have pictures...
I think this would be a wise marketing decision.. an SYE for a kick would solve a lot of problems when one decides to go SAS!
:)
Heather
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Yes that kit would adapt your motor to the 1.3 trans But like other hacve said you would be going backward the kick trans is stonger. Does anyone have a good pic of the outputs on the Kick case.. I might beable to machine a SYE it. I wont have a kick in the shop for another wk or so but if there any good pics i can start the wheels turning..
-Scott
I can understand that the Sidekick's trans is stronger,but  I m not going to do rockcrawling or install bigger than 33s'.I ve seen Sammy's with 33's that dont seem to have a problem with their trans.
As I mentioned previously,I m not experienced with mods,and I m considered a newbie in 4WD.At least comparing my driving skills to yours over there.
The reason I thought about this conversion is due to cost reasons.I know the OTT kicker 3 is the best solution,but the problem is this :I cant ship my trans from Greece to US and then receive it back due to cost reasons.The cost is the same as buying a lockright,minimum.Another reason is that the Kick is a daily driver.The third reason is that I ll have them (OTT) to buy for me(if they can do that)  a new Sidekick trans to modify it with their adaptor and send it back to me.The cost of shipping and duties at customs is almost equal  the cost of the kicker 3 itself.Not to mention the buying of one more Sidekick t-case.
So what remains as solution is the fabrication of SYE or the trans conversion.The first one (fab SYE) ,I havent done it,and I havent seen anything like that here before.
So it makes me a bit worried.The most cost effective solution would be the trans conversion cause I can sell mine and buy a new Sammy  trans.Plus it is almost bolt on.An even used  Sammy trans+t-case can be found here at 500$ max.
Of course I m not knowlegable about the drawbacks of such mod.Thats why I explained now all the parameters
(cost and driving style) ,so that you can have a general view of the whole issue,and advise me accordingly.
Thanks for your answers  till now.
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Does anyone have a good pic of the outputs on the Kick case.. I might beable to machine a SYE it. I wont have a kick in the shop for another wk or so but if there any good pics i can start the wheels turning..
-Scott
this is the front t-case output from my truck
http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/album40/DSC00768.jpg
http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/album40/DSC00767.jpg
and this the rear one
http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/album40/DSC00771.jpg
I dont know if this is what you asked for,but this is what I have.
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If you're looking for cheap, just cut off the front output shaft on the tracker trans, have it welded shut, then bolt up a sammy Tcase to it... and viola: cheap, 2 tcases, and no slip yokes.
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the sami T-case and diff flanges (and tracker diff flanges) have the same spline count as the tracker T-case outputs, that should make it easier to make a SYE kit
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If you're looking for cheap, just cut off the front output shaft on the tracker trans, have it welded shut, then bolt up a sammy Tcase to it... and viola: cheap, 2 tcases, and no slip yokes.
Sounds simple,but I cant imagine it.I told you,I m not that experienced with such mods.Do you have any pics,or can you be more specific on how and where excectly I m going to bolt the sammy t-case ?
I usually dont like cheap solutions,but this particular time ,I want to keep cost as low as possible when I can,since I ll have the cost of the swap too.
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Sounds simple,but I cant imagine it.I told you,I m not that experienced with such mods.Do you have any pics,or can you be more specific on how and where excectly I m going to bolt the sammy t-case ?
I usually dont like cheap solutions,but this particular time ,I want to keep cost as low as possible when I can,since I ll have the cost of the swap too.
I know that Glen fellow's site had pics of them (the guy with the olive green truck-style kick...), but i don't remember the address :-/
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if ur not experanceced the kicker3 is ging to be the best and easiest route. after all the parts and labor r added ur not going to save that much.
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Yes that kit would adapt your motor to the 1.3 trans But like other hacve said you would be going backward the kick trans is stonger. Does anyone have a good pic of the outputs on the Kick case.. I might beable to machine a SYE it. I wont have a kick in the shop for another wk or so but if there any good pics i can start the wheels turning..
-Scott
I can send you and extra T-case
for a SYE ;)
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I know that Glen fellow's site had pics of them (the guy with the olive green truck-style kick...), but i don't remember the address :-/
Yes, I e-mailed Glenn and he advised me on this.As I see it ,90 % of you think that the best solution is the kicker 3 regardless of cost factor ,and the fab of SYE using stock Sidekick's differential flanges is the other way to go.The problem is that I never seen anyone that did such mod.Not even one.And my argument is , what if this mod fails and the t-case output shafts break?
It also seemed strange that none of you liked the idea of attaching a Sammy trans on the Kick engine.
You maybe right on this.I thought ,at least from the impression I got ,that this would be the simpler way to solve the problem ,at least temporarily.Move one trans out,bolt the other on.Plus ,I m not going to do all this complicated work.My mechanic will.I will only help him .
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and the fab of SYE using stock Sidekick's differential flanges is the other way to go.The problem is that I never seen anyone that did such mod.Not even one.And my argument is , what if this mod fails and the t-case output shafts break?
The machining of a small threaded hole in the
output shaft is not going to weaken the shaft
to a point of being a problem, driveshafts are
hollow, and fairly thin as well, yes somtimes
they do break, $#!+ happens but the SYE is
the issue here, and if an 8mm hole seems too
large, a 6 mm hole is plenty small and a 6mm
bolt will still have a 15,000 PSI breaking strength.
This is a mod I have planned on doing for quite
a while now, and one of these days I'll get it done
I just got to get off my butt and do it, I even have
the flanges I just need to weld, drill and tap
Wild
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I would do a kicker 2 and have them find the toyota t -case and the suzuki t-case sell them to you mod them and mail them.
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I would do a kicker 2 and have them find the toyota t -case and the suzuki t-case sell them to you mod them and mail them.
Sorry but english is not my native language.Can you translate what you said ?
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I would do a kicker 2 and have them find the toyota t -case and the suzuki t-case sell them to you mod them and mail them.
Why the Kicker 2 over the Kicker 3? I can see having a toy tcase might be good,
However, in Greece it's possible that these toy tcases are hard to come by. We know for sure that Samurai's are over there.
In some cases, OTT does not even need the Samurai case, they didn't with ours. The only case they modify is the Sidekick case. So it's possible that GRVIT can find a Samurai case in Greece which will save him some money for shipping, and the cost of purchase in the US. (or Canada in this case, since that is where OTT is located.)
What you stated is pretty much exactly, to the t, what GRVIT was going to do with the Kicker 3... as he stated in an above post.
:)
Sigh. It would have been nice if Suzuki would have kept the flanges on the transfer case for the Vit/Kick like they had for the Samurai.
I still think if somebody made an SYE for the Kick, and in some fashion, made it bolt on - similar to what Calmini was doing with the SYE for their SAS kit - wouldbe the best option. You wouldn't have to focus on having to make custom crossmembers this way either.
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I know of two people that have used sammi tcases. One  (John Sackley) used a sammi box and tcase and ran 35" tyres with a SAS using a sammi front axle. The other was Dave Jones (http://www.k9rdj.co.uk) who uses a sammi tcase behind a Track/Kick gearbox, he has rockcrawlers in the tcase and has now gone to 35s also as his gearing was too low for road use.
You don't have to use an adapter to mate the Track/Kick engine to the Sammi box but you will have to drill and tap two holes.
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You don't have to use an adapter to mate the Track/Kick engine to the Sammi box but you will have to drill and tap two holes.
I know Dave.He helped me with the Calmini mods together with Simom (TONKA-TOY)  :).
I havent talked with Sackley.I know he has a Sammy trans case and t-case but I couldnt find his e-mail to contact him.
Thanks for the advise about mating the Sammy box to the Kick's engine.But I hope the Trailtough flange will help me avoid drilling and taping.And its relatively cheap for what it does.Do you know if something changes with the clutch unit?
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I think the Sammy t-cases are pretty tough!
We run Calmini 4.24 Kick gears in our Kicker3 and then the Sammy t-case behind it.
Been holding up just fine to the additional torque for a year now.
~Nate
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I think the sammi case is a stronger case than the kick's. In addition there is a gear reduction in the sammi case, and depending on what gears you have in your pigs, you can either run 33's with the 4.62's or 35's with the 5.13's to set your speedo back to stock.
my vote is the kicker 3 if you don't have the knowledge to lobb the kick case, throw a sammi case behind it and a shortened kick d-shaft between it. I managed to do it to my truck with a sawzall, a welder, and about 100 bucks (CDN funds) for steel, sawzall blades, and some rattle can primer and paint
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I think the sammi case is a stronger case than the kick's.  In addition there is a gear reduction in the sammi case, and depending on what gears you have in your pigs, you can either run 33's with the 4.62's or 35's with the 5.13's to set your speedo back to stock.
my vote is the kicker 3 if you don't have the knowledge to lobb the kick case, throw a sammi case behind it and a shortened kick d-shaft between it. I managed to do it to my truck with a sawzall, a welder, and about 100 bucks (CDN funds) for steel, sawzall blades, and some rattle can primer and paint
I checked again aproximately the overall cost of a kicker 3 (including the cost of a Sidekick's t-case) delivered in Greece. Together with shipping cost and duties paid at customs,the total is aprox.1600 $ where 46% is shipping and duties aprox.With labor cost and the cost of a Sammy t-case the total cost goes to aprox 2000$
I m still waiting for an answer from OTT though.
I know its the best solution but I also have to balance the options according to their cost vs benefit combination.
Till now the most cost effective combination is the replacement of the complete Sidekick trans with the Sammy one.Cause in this case I can find everything I need here,so it would be around 700$.With the rest ,till the 2000 $ I can get rockcrawlers in the Sammy t-case,adjustable driveshafts,e.t.c and there will be still money left.On the other hand most people say that the Sammy transmission is not as strong as the Sidekick's is,
maybe it isnt,I dont think that the difference is that big,but anyway I think I can compromise with that.
I f I was living in US, I would definately choose the Kicker 3 option.
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You could come over for a vacation ;)
then take your parts back as bagage
;D
Wild
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That's a very good idea Wild. :)
I have an uncle in Toronto Canada and another one in US but I dont know in State ,causes he moves a lot.
which State should I choose ? :)
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I don't know, there are so many
I guess where Trail Tough is or
to Canada to see OTT
Come by here for Easter Jeep Safari
in Moab Utah :)
Would be a feast for the eyes with
all of the mods on all the Zukes ;D
Wild
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:)
that would be nice.I ll think about it next year.
Have to get my truck ready first . ;D
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Bringing the Vit over ???
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well ,yes .if I win the lottery here .... why not ? ;D
I have to check if the 1300 86HP Sammy trans has any differences with the 65HP one.Maybe the Trailtough's kit can be used only with the old trans,in case there are differences between the two. ???
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I m  confused somehow.I received e-mails from people and companies about the conversion I want to make (Sammy trans to Sidekick's engine) .Some of them say that it can be done,the others say that it cannot,and that it is better to keep the Sidekick's t-case and attach to it a Sammy t-case.So is someone sure that such mod can be done, and has seen it or we are just making assumptions ?
If I assume that this is a 4th option,I ve seen some photos but partially cause a photo cant include the whole mod.Can someone make a drawing or tell me where to find any pics that show the whole set up of the mod so that I can understand how to do it.I want to understand how the Sammy t-case attaches to the Sidekicks t-case.
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(http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker%20three%20cutout.jpg) (http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker3side.jpg)
(http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker3interference.jpg)
http://www.ottindustries.com/kicker3.htm
SideKick Tranny with modified Stock T-case and Sammie T-case
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Thanks HotRod.I ve seen photos of the  kicker 3 set up.
I was reffering to a more home-made like  mod.
Well, I found some ,I m trying to understand them.
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Sorry stepped away for a day or so, If you need an option other then sending stuff to OTT go with the RingR, and adat to the Toy trans and case, it is Bullet proof over the kick stuff and a very easy install. + fixed output's so you dont have to worry about slip yokes..
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I can send you and extra T-case
for a SYE ;)
If if it is just an xtra laying around send it and i will start working on it.
-Scott
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If if it is just an xtra laying around send it and i will start working on it.
-Scott
Its just sitting in my parts car doing nothing.
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Sorry stepped away for a day or so, If you need an option other then sending stuff to OTT go with the RingR, and adat to the Toy trans and case, it is Bullet proof over the kick stuff and a very easy install. + fixed output's so you dont have to worry about slip yokes..
Parts needed
RingR, Toy 4cyl 4x4 trans and t-case w-56,or g-52 optional t-case with crawler gears
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/rock4x/4X%20product/DRIVETRAINPARTSmarked1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/rock4x/4X%20product/newdrivetrain1.jpg)
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rockrat:
Does that setup put the shifters in/near the stock holes on a kick?
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Dont know exactly maybee Kerry will chime in... I use them in a samurai. pretty close for the 1st 2 shifters the 3rd well lets just say NO. But then it all went into this so I made new floors anyways. I will see what I can find out for ya
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/rock4x/Badlands%20melt%20pics/Sidepicratfinished.jpg)
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Bump,
SYE for Kick t-case.
Anybody got the final word?
~Nate
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Bump,
SYE for Kick t-case.
Anybody got the final word?
~Nate
My final design, weld a washer for
a stopper in a diff flange, then drill
and tap the output/s
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Its good thinking and cheap to fab it.But I still worry about the t-case output shafts integrity when drilled and tapped and with a 6mm bolt in them.I mean, the idea is perfect,but we dont have any info whether it works o.k or not in the long run.My truck is a daily driver and with the thought that something breaks in there......brrrrrrrr If I had a second Kick I would definately try it.
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Its good thinking and cheap to fab it.But I still worry about the t-case output shafts integrity when drilled and tapped and with a 6mm bolt in them.I mean, the idea is perfect,but we dont have any info whether it works o.k or not in the long run.My truck is a daily driver and with the thought that something breaks in there......brrrrrrrr If I had a second Kick I would definately try it.
You should see what OTT does with the output shaft for the kicker3 conversion...
I would NOT worry about drilling and tapping out a hole.
Especially when it's filled with a bolt when done.
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You should see what OTT does with the output shaft for the kicker3 conversion...
I would NOT worry about drilling and tapping out a hole.
Especially when it's filled with a bolt when done.
Dont tell me that they do something similar ....... :o
Thanks for the info Nate :)
What should I use to tab the output shaft ? For drilling I ve read about cobalt or carbide drills.Especially the second ones are considered to be the best option.
But tapping ?
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Dont tell me that they do something similar ....... :o
Thanks for the info Nate :)
What should I use to tab the output shaft ? For drilling I ve read about cobalt or carbide drills.Especially the second ones are considered to be the best option.
But tapping ?
They machine the output shaft of the kick case, so the sammy case input shaft slips into the output shaft a bit.
As for drilling and tapping, not sure. I'm not a metalurgist. But tapping bits are usually pretty hard to begin with, plus they only take a little bit out at a time, so they don't need to be extra super strong. I'd think that most tapping bits would be able to cut through it.
~Nate
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The Jeep guys have been doing this for a long time now. It is called Hack and Tap. YJ's and TJ's have long output shafts and short driveshafts. They hack the end off of the output shaft, drill it out, tap it, and attach a new flange to it. You have to get a new driveshaft with a slip yoke.
I have seen this done and it works very well.
Cwkick
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The Jeep guys have been doing this for a long time now. It is called Hack and Tap. YJ's and TJ's have long output shafts and short driveshafts. They hack the end off of the output shaft, drill it out, tap it, and attach a new flange to it. You have to get a new driveshaft with a slip yoke.
I have seen this done and it works very well.
Cwkick
I'd imagine that a determined zukier would have no problem doing this.
Just need to spend the time to R&R the t-case..
~Nate
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;)
I think ,I m going to give it a try.I ll also get the 4,24 t-case reduction kit to combine the 2 mods.
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;)