ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Ira on October 18, 2007, 06:23:39 AM
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Well, not really--and it's not really a lift. Just spring spacers and bigger tires.
Tomorrow's the big day--Christmas and Hanukkah came early because I got a bonus at work, and it goes into my direct deposit tomorrow. So I'm taking off work and going in the AM to buy the tires, and then right to the mechanic to put the spacers in and do the strut flip. But two questions:
The extremely famous strut mount flip instructions detailed on this site indicate to replace the existing bolts with 8mm X 30mm bolts, and to expand the holes in the mounts to 5/16" to accommodate these wider 8mm bolts.
I had gone to one NAPA store and they had a crappy grade 8 bolt selection, and no 8mm in the length needed. Since the holes are going to be 5/16", can't I just get 5/16" X 1 1/4" bolts instead--if I can get them? (30mm long means 1.18", so I'm thinking 1 1/4" is cool.)
This is going to be tricky because I want to pick up the bolts and assorted nuts and washers TODAY after work, and I doubt NAPA has late hours. So the next question is, does HD or Lowes carry grade 8? And if not them, any suggestions on where to get them?
Final question, and I know it's been asked and answered a hundred times, but I'm still nervous:
I'm going with 235s, and I DON'T plan on adjusting the steering stops. I'm cool, right? Just gotta watch how hard I cut the wheel, correct?
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You'll be fine with everything.
As for the strut flip, I would use larger bolts, but if you have to use the same size, they will work. I'd definatly use grade 8, 1.5" long should be good. You can use whatever size or thread pattern you want, I used 3/8" grade 8 bolts, 1.5" long, I don't remember what thread, just that the nuts matched the bolts ;). When you flip the mount, there is a space you need to fill because of the rolled edge, you can do this with 3-4 washers, or I use a 3-bolt exhaust flange. If you don't, you could distort the mounting surface when tightening the bolts.
This is 2 flanges stacked(see how the bottom one is inset into the rolled edge), you can do the same with washers but not as high, the washers would be good for just filling the gap up the top of the edge.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/uncivilized121/DSCF0001.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/uncivilized121/DSCF0004.jpg)
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So I'll go 5/16" or 3/8", since the holes in the mount have to be enlarged anyway.
I knew about the washers, and since I'm thick in the head at times, it took me forever to understand this, even after seeing the pictures:
Lock washer goes on bolt, bolt goes in hole, washers go on other side of bolt, and then the nut, so it doesn't compress and distort the mount when tightening.
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lock washers are for the nut end usually
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lock washers are for the nut end usually
That's what I always did--but how come all of these photos are showing it the other way?
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:-\Maybe it's just part of Japans plan to get even with us.
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:-\Maybe it's just part of Japans plan to get even with us.
These forum members don't look Japanese. But seriously--what the heck is the deal here?
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I don't have any idea what these guys are doing, I was always taught that a lock washer was for securing a nut
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I don't have any idea what these guys are doing, I was always taught that a lock washer was for securing a nut
X2 ... or locktite ;)
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You could use a Nylock nut too, they have a nylon ring inside the nut the help them from backing off.
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You could use a Nylock nut too, they have a nylon ring inside the nut the help them from backing off.
I have a ton of 3/8" Nylocks left over from my HF utility trailer (bolts too) which I used to build my teardrop trailer, but I don't think that's Grade 8.
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Ira,
I picked up my grade 8's at my "friendly neighborhood Ace Hardware Store".... ;D
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IRA, coil spacers and bigger tires are a lift!! ;) Anything that gets the Zook higher in my opinion is a lift. I hope all goes well with the install. Let us know and show us how it turns out.
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IRA, coil spacers and bigger tires are a lift!! ;) Anything that gets the Zook higher in my opinion is a lift. I hope all goes well with the install. Let us know and show us how it turns out.
Thanks, Jeff. I found grade 8s at the second NAPA store I hit, so all is cool.
5:30AM now and I have get the older one ready for school, but NOW that HF carrier I bought for 40 bucks is really gonna come in handy:
2 tires there, and 2 in the back seat.
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Don't forget camber bolts. A lot of times the camber will be off when you do this. Camber bolts are off set bolts that you can use in the strut mount (where it conects to the spindle) to help get your tires straight.
Also check the toe.
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Don't forget camber bolts. A lot of times the camber will be off when you do this. Camber bolts are off set bolts that you can use in the strut mount (where it conects to the spindle) to help get your tires straight.
Also check the toe.
lil_Truck where do I get the camber bolts
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Mission acomplished!!! I've posted before and after pics in my post below, but some notes to anyone about to do the same thing :
1) Walmart rang up the 235 Uniroyal Liberator ATs for 70 bucks each, although the sign said $85. That's a good thing.
2) Not only does it look cool with the lift and bigger tires, but the ride is AMAZING compared to before. We did tire pressure to 50, per tire specs, and I LOVE it at this pressure. Real soft and smooth--not hard at ALL. Is it all that extra rubber under me which improved the ride so much? I mean, she's smoother than ever, and if you would call this bouncy at all, I don't care--I love it.
3) The old sleeve inserts on the shocks that you stick the lower mouting bolts into did NOT fit into my new Monroes--they were too big. Not only could we hardly get the old ones out, but you can see just by measuring that it ain't gonna work. Fortunately, my mechanic had these perfect steel inserts that he used to make the fit. Otherwise, using the old bolts, the opening in the new shock would be too big for the old bolt and it would rattle around.
At first I thought that maybe my existing shocks weren't the stock ones, and since we're all running such older trucks here, this may very well be the case for a lot of folks, so anyone else going to do this, take note!
My old shocks did indeed say Suzuki, but again, a "typical" past owner might have used Geo/Suzuki service, where they might have replaced it with the same shock more or less--but with a different bolt opening there. This is especially important to pay attention to because you can't widen the bolt openings on the truck at ALL to accommodate the new larger bolts you're gonna get with your new Crown Victoria size shots--there's simply no room, no more metal there to expand the hole. You GOTTA use your old bolts.
4) On the rear end, my axle ventilation hose (is that what you call it?) popped out from the center of the axle due to the lifting. On my model year, I guess the hose is a wee bit short. We simply flopped the bracket that supports it, and that gave us the extra 2" or so that we need to properly secure it.
5) We had to grease the front upper spring mounts and hammer in the spacers to get them in there. No big deal.
6) Haven't done the alignment yet, but my mechanic looked at it when all was done, took her for a ride, and said if she really needed an alignment, she only slightly needed it.
So what's my next step, especially regarding the aforementioned camber bolts?
This is all too cool, and I'm heading over to my coffee and cigs shop right now to show her off.
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Edit posted a few hours later because I forgot about this before:
I swapped my brand-new 205 spare tire for a used 235 spare, just so I wouldn't have to BUY a spare. Well, the mounting bolts are too short to hold this 235, but all you have to do is flop the tire to epose the ""ugly" side of the wheel to the guy behind you. And since your old spare cover won't fit on this larger tire at ALL, I just picked up a replacement cover at Pep Boys for 15 bucks.
It ain't the most gorgeous fit you've ever seen because they ony had the size that accommodated up to 32" tires, too big for this tire, but for 15 bucks, I can live with it for now.
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A lousy second shot, but...
Before:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1147/1126613408_b5d08dc7a2.jpg?v=0)
After:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/1653289253_bf77125d73.jpg?v=0)
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Looks good Ira! 50 psi in the tires is aweful hi. At this pressure I expect that you will wear out the center of your tire tread and have plenty left on the shoulders.
Get an alignment. I added coil spacers and everything looked and felt good, but ended up chewing through two new tires in short order.
For the spare 235/75R15 tire I just took off the two little rubber bumpers on the end gate that the stock spare rests against. This gave me enough room to mount a 235 tire on the stock rim to the spare tire carrier.
Again, I really like the looks of your tracker. Nice and clean looking. What year is it?
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Looks good Ira! 50 psi in the tires is aweful hi. At this pressure I expect that you will wear out the center of your tire tread and have plenty left on the shoulders.
Get an alignment. I added coil spacers and everything looked and felt good, but ended up chewing through two new tires in short order.
For the spare 235/75R15 tire I just took off the two little rubber bumpers on the end gate that the stock spare rests against. This gave me enough room to mount a 235 tire on the stock rim to the spare tire carrier.
Again, I really like the looks of your tracker. Nice and clean looking. What year is it?
I noticed those little rubber thingies you're talking about--and yeah, deleting those from the truck would do the trick! We didn't even think of that!
I'm definitely gonna do the alignment within a week or so, but you gotta understand that down here in South Florida, you can't just pull in anywhere. We're basically the same as BOLIVIA when it comes to reputable alignment places--ESPECIALLY the chain places--so I gotta be careful. Rumor has it that my best bet is Sears.
So what pressure do you think I should I run at? 40? The vehicle is so freaking light that with an oversized tire, how can you overly wear out the tire? Yeah, it mght not EVENLY wear, but that's a different story, right? Just asking, because I'm in LOVE with the ride now, and if a bit of premature tire life is going to be the result of running at 50psi, I can live with that. But I don't know the physics behind all of this.
Also, if 50psi is going to KILL me in a certain situation, well--that's a different story.
Mine's a 95, and I changed that white top to black using Dupli-Color's vinyl spray paint. Don't know how long it will last but for a couple of bucks, so far, it's a pretty good fix.
I might even make it pink next week.
HAH!!!!!!!!
And as you can see, I got rid of that ugly "Tracker" branding on the sides and center caps.
By the way:
Do you like my dead tree in the background, that died from Hurricane Wilma? It's just PERFECT for our upcoming Halloween!!!
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50 is way to high the pressure on the tire is the max pressure you can run on the tire under its max conditions i.e. a really heavy truck. according the the door decal on lil Suzy proper pressure on a side kick is around 23 psi. I assume that that is for a standard tire with a max pressure of 32 so yours might be a little higher but no where near 50. There is a technique you can use to find the exact pressure. You use white chalk and mark across the tires is several places. then drive in a straight line for some distance. check the marks, add or remove air until the marks wear away evenly across the tires. This can only be done with new tires as old tires with the wrong pressure will wear the high spots down. Tire techs will always fill the tires to the max air rating to seat the bead properly and also because of liability. What liability I don't know but even showing them the door decal on lil Suzy which says 23psi I have been unable to get a tire store to fill the tire to that pressure. I have been told... if you want to run that pressure that's fine but those tires are leaving this shop at full inflation.
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IRA, glad it all went together well. The Tracker looks great!
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I have been running 23 to 25 psi on my 235's on my 4dr for almost 2 years, and they are wearing just fine. The tires that were on it when I got it were almost bald in the middle. I would like to do that lift somday too. Looks good!
Jeff
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I have been running 23 to 25 psi on my 235's on my 4dr for almost 2 years, and they are wearing just fine. The tires that were on it when I got it were almost bald in the middle. I would like to do that lift somday too. Looks good!
Jeff
Boy--this is a real education for me:
25, which is HALF of fifty.
I know NOTHING about this stuff, and like an idiot, I'm thinking that the recommended pressure has to do with the actual tire, when in reality, it's the load that it's going to be handling. The rating for the old 205's was also 25.
Okay--time to buy a new pressure gauge right now and make the adjustment.
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The owners manual shows 26psi. Brand new tires always feel better than worn out ones.
I used to keep my 235/75's around 18psi, and oddly enough, I have my 31-10.5's at 20psi. It's a wider tire on the same width rim(7") If I had 8" rims, I bet it would be lower. Rim width, and sidewall strength have a big play in what your best number is.
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The owners manual shows 26psi. Brand new tires always feel better than worn out ones.
I used to keep my 235/75's around 18psi, and oddly enough, I have my 31-10.5's at 20psi. It's a wider tire on the same width rim(7") If I had 8" rims, I bet it would be lower. Rim width, and sidewall strength have a big play in what your best number is.
So what the heck should I do with the stock rims and 235s?
LESS than 25?
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With 50psi only the centre of the tread will be touching - it will be very scary in the wet. Eric (IIRC) posted a reply in another thread recently, same principle as the chalk test but simpler. Find some level ground, wet the tyres and drive forward, check the tread pattern left on the tarmac. Lower the pressures until you get the full width of the tread making contact with the ground. I ran 23psi on stock rims and 215s, somewhere around that pressure should be about right.
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With 50psi only the centre of the tread will be touching - it will be very scary in the wet. Eric (IIRC) posted a reply in another thread recently, same principle as the chalk test but simpler. Find some level ground, wet the tyres and drive forward, check the tread pattern left on the tarmac. Lower the pressures until you get the full width of the tread making contact with the ground. I ran 23psi on stock rims and 215s, somewhere around that pressure should be about right.
So just water will make this test accurate? No problem finding flat gound where I live!
And I'm assuming I just have to wet the front tires, right? Since all will take the same pressure anyway.