ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: bioniconion on November 08, 2004, 03:34:18 AM
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ok i understand the concept of a locker. and i understand the brilliant of getting higher gears. now what im kinda lost on..is from what i can understand the locker completely replaces the differential. ok so if it replaces the differential are they still compatable with a higher gear? like arb for example. i wanted to put some nice 5.83 gears in my trac but would i have to use a locker like loc-tite or would the arb still be compatable..
i hate being a noob :-[
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The lockers on our rigs do not completely replace the differential. Just the carrier inside the differential. The carrier sits inside the gears.
This means that yes, you can put whatever gear ratio you want into it.
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Bioniconion,
Heres what the inside of a standard (open) rear Sidekick diff looks likes,
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/reopendif.JPG)
And what the looks like once you place the ARB locker in it,
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/rsarb.JPG)
Fitting 5.83's at the same time you fit your lock is a good idea to save some $$$, wish I had of done it at the time ???
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well i know arb's are bomb-diggity obviously with the driver command *driver lock when u want thing* but what about the loc-rite ones? how are they? 700+ bucks for the arb is pretty harsh for the rear when i hear the locrite will work just as well in the back. i want arb up front but any cheaper solutions for the rear? what about detroit? thanks for your help everyone :)
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If I was going to fit one of each I would be putting the ARB in the rear and a lock rite or similar in the front.
Reasons being,
1) Running on the road once you've unlocked your FWH means on clicking or unusual handling characteristics are taken care of.
2) Some times when going up some thing slippery and steep on the angle with the rear locked the ar$e end wants to slide down hill, with ARB in the rear it gives me the choice of running up locked or unlock and the front would be locked which isn't a problem in this situation.
Thats just my 2c anyways ;D
Shane
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just put the loc-rite in the rear and forget about it! yes it replaces your spider gears in your stock carrier, and no do not put a locker in the front unless you plan on spending alot of money, it will get you where you want to go and get you some time on the trail so you can see what you need.
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i hear a full posi in the front is a bad idea anyways because it can really screw a lot of things up if it doens't disengage like it should...but i think loc-rite in the rear is what ill do....it seems good priced. i was either going to go with loc-rite or detroit in the rear...but i think for the price and from what i've read..loc-rite is the way to go...does the same thing but cheaper...that about right?
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I own an 03" tracker and I too am intrested in a locker
however... what scares me, is that w/ a 2.0 engine
is there enough torque to disenage the locker in icy conditions?
i live in some of the worse icy conditions
do you guys recommened a lockrite?
I know off the line would be great, but if icy and turning (lets say a u-turn)
would I be in trouble?
thanks
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I own an 03" tracker and I too am intrested in a locker
however... what scares me, is that w/ a 2.0 engine
is there enough torque to disenage the locker in icy conditions?
i live in some of the worse icy conditions
do you guys recommened a lockrite?
I know off the line would be great, but if icy and turning (lets say a u-turn)
would I be in trouble?
thanks
If you drive on ice get the ARB and leave it off during icy conditions. You don't want a locker on ice. ice+locker=crash ;D
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If you drive on ice get the ARB and leave it off during icy conditions. You don't want a locker on ice. ice+locker=crash ;D
It could be my driving style but I prefer having a locker on ice. I prefer manual lockers. take the $$$ you saved and buy a 4 to 1 t case.
Mike
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I've lock-rites front and rear. On Ice in 2wd I've not had any problems when it's solid ice, However I've had the ride of my life with 80 miles of patchy stuff.
As far as the front I'ld investigate, either a good Limited slip, or the ARB if I had the money. It's a steering/ breakage thing. I went with both due to the price of the Lock-right in the front due to the prices that I found on anything else.
Hope that Helps.
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In my previous double duty rigs, I've always had a rear locker. Though the rigs were 4-6k#'s and this is 2-3 times as heavy as a Trackick. I'd say that if you haven't driven your vehicle on ice, yet, don't get a locker. Get experience under your belt with the vehicle and the driving with the tires. You'll notice quite a bit of difference. Then in the spring, when it's all thaw, get your locker put in. Hopefully, you have some experience with the vehicle off road, and adding a locker then will help you learn about it's capabilities off road. Then when winter comes back around, you'll have some time and experience.
Why is everyone seemingly wanting to jump right in? Take some time and get to know your vehicle. Jumping right up into the saddle is not the way to go.
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i had a lock-rite in the front and removed it. there r situations where locking the front is a bad idea. if u r in the mud ur truck tends to just go strait and not where u steer it. on the rocks many times the same problem plus breaking parts. the lock-rite is great in the rear. expect a 1/4 turn of axle movement before the axle ingages. u get used to it and it feels normal after a while. the offroad benifit far out ways the onrad mannerism.
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Heres another thing to consider. If you are trying to save money, look at a Trailtough minispool for the rear. An ARB is best (but very $) a lockrite or the equivalent is nice, but a minispool, which is the same as a locker that's always engaged, is only $99.
Some people will tell you you will break axles with a minispool and some people will tell you that you are more likely to break stuff with a locker that locks and unlocks. A minispool is more predictable than a lockrite, if nothing else.
I have a minispool in the rear of my Samurai and a lockrite in the front. it works incredibly well on the trail other than not wanting to go where you point it with the front hubs engaged in 4wd. :P I have never broken anything in the axles and that includes plenty of street driving, too. Being on 31s helps with the not breaking things.
So if you are trying to save $, definately check out the minispool.
~daxe
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Just a word of caution. If you have a 2002, maybe a 2001 or newer Tracker, the ARB will not fit without using a older model third member. The new model ring gear has smaller diameter center and the ARB will not fit through it. I learned the hard expensive way. If you have any fitment questions check with Hawk.
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i have just recently had a lockrite put in the rear of my lwb vitara (tracker) and as of yet have had no adverse handling problems.
i love it off road though.
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well if I drive on lets say Ice and go through a corner
if I accelerate through will it lock on me and will I fishtail?
Do they make a locker which is not quite as sensitive and will only lock once enough torque is applied?
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I for one would luv to see eaton get their e-locker availble for more applications
http://www.traction.eaton.com/prod1.htm
It sounds like a perfect "demand" based locker (aka ARB), but electronic accuated rather than air (aka ARB). I could see them giving ARB some competition, but they have so few applications ...
But ... to stay on topic, I'm thinking mini-spool unless I can hunt down a good deal.
Rob
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well if I drive on lets say Ice and go through a corner
if I accelerate through will it lock on me and will I fishtail?
Fishtail, naw that will bring the ass end all the way around
;D
Do they make a locker which is not quite as sensitive and will only lock once enough torque is applied?
Nope, it's all in the skinny pedal
;D
Wild
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I was thinking in this case then
could I install an LSD in the front and rear
and put an arb still in the rear?
for the front LSD, do you guys know where to source one?
for a newer 03' style?
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i have been running lockrights front and rear for a while now.no problems on road and awesome offroad.
I LOVE MY LOCKRIGHTS!!! ;D ;D ;D
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...if I accelerate through will it lock on me and will I fishtail?
My point exactly. Imagine going downhill and through a corner when that happens, zero traction in the rear. Lockers are great but the one free wheel in a open diff gives you directional stability on ice. Lock the front and rear then drive on my road in the winter and it's not if you'll crash, it's when. But, to each his own. :)
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You guys must drive ninty miles an hour on ice :'( I live at 4800 ft. and drive in ice all the time, if you have that much ice put the loc-rites in and put studded tires on it and don't road race it. there is transitional ice here twice a day that is slicker than snot for a couple of hours in the am. and a couple of hours in the pm. you just have to go slow in that stuff, when the ice gets hard again you can go back to your road racing ;D lsd diffs are just what it says (limited) they suck off road and will still break loose on real slick ice.
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I honestly have heard way too many things regarding either or
from what I have determined
If driving slowly, relatively straigh through very icy conditions/very deep snow
a locker is going to be wicked as it is basically a spool (especially both front and rear)
if driving on patchy ice, need to be able to accelerate through a turn w/ slippery conditions
a LSD is desired as a locker will just basically spin you right around
so tell me, if I install the 10 bolt lsd into the rear
can I install a electric locker or an ARB?
i'm sure that is much more expensive but I think safer
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You guys must drive ninty miles an hour on ice...
Not me. :P When it snows around here I leave my driveway I go downhill on solid ice for 1.5 miles and some of it is over a 30* decent. Our local highway department is nice enough to polish it with their snowplow every morning too. ;) I've had every type of vehicle come sliding through my yard in the winter. Seems like the people around here with built 4-bys think that they are invincible on snow and ice. 4x4's climb better on ice but going downhill they slide just as bad as a 4x2 if not driven correctly, I have the tracks in my yard every spring to prove it. ;D
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I also like manual lockers.I have a Detroit EZ on the rear axle and a Calmini LSD on the front(70% or75%) not torsen type but friction type.I would install an EZ in the front too,but because of we have have lots of mud here,I think a manual locker in front is no good.No steering when driving in mud.
Please someone ,persuade me that a manual locker in the front is the best when driving in the mud. :)
Anyway,with this combination,my truck proved extremely capable on every terrain.