ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: olija on February 10, 2008, 12:00:36 PM
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So, I think I've made up my mind on what I want to do in terms of re-gearing my Sidekick. Since my tranny (5 speed) seems to be on its last legs, I'm just going to get a 2WD Sidekick transmission and bolt it up and mount a Samurai transfer case behind it. I really like the idea of having a high range reduction. And also the fact that there are more options for gearing for Sammy t-cases. Anyway, for those that know, I just want to figure out exactly what I need to do in order to make this work. I've done some research and I know the tranny bolts up to the engine just fine, but it will require a custom crossmember. That's ok, I work at a metal shop.
The main thing is, do I need to fab up a custom jackshaft between the tranny and t-case? And do I need to run a custom rear driveshaft as well? I'm thinking not, but I just want to make sure before I do anything.
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Your going to have to make a jack shaft, front and rear drive shafts and mounts to mount in a sammi case. Also cut the tunnel for the shifter.
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So I can't just use the jackshaft that a Samurai uses between a Samurai tranny and t-case? And the front and rear driveshafts won't be the right lengths either?
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I believe the outputs for the Sammy Jack Shaft has a different spline. But if you take the 2wd drive line and the jack shaft to a drive line shop and they should be able to fab it together for you. Then it is just measuring and mounting. :)
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The high range reduction is quite significant. If its a daily driver then it may be too low on 30s. It would be OK on 33s. IIRC the gearing options all reduce the high range further so you would need 35s+
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anyone know of any good links for making a custom crossmember...im kinda in the same situation but im limited with my tools so im trying to figure everything out before i swap it in...bump
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A trackick 2wd tranny output shaft is the same spline count as a samurai tranny output shaft (therefore a samurai intermediate shaft will fit, and you will need to use a different seal, since the trackick slip yoke is bigger diameter than the samurai one). Or you can swap the slip yoke portion of a 2wd trackick driveshaft onto a samurai intermediate shaft (all the samurai and trackick driveshafts use the same ujoints).
I haven't ever measured, but I would assume you will not be able to mount a samurai tcase in the correct position to be able to use the trackick driveshafts without having to modify at least one of them.
Remember that trackick tcases use slip yokes on the tcase ends of the driveshafts and samurais use flanges on the tcase end of the driveshafts......but also remember that they all use the same ujoints, so you can mix and match driveshafts and driveshaft ends to make what you need....but the driveshafts may still need to be modified for length.
Also remember that a samurai tcase rear output does not come straight out the back of the case (in line with the tranny and rear third)....so you will have a compound angle rear driveshaft.
Easiest thing to do for a crossmember is to find a factory 2wd one. It uses the same mounts as a 4wd one does.
As stated, if you change the tcase gears in the samurai tcase, it will also lower high range (unlike the trackick gears that only change the low range ratio). A stock samurai tcase has a high range reduction of 1.409:1......where a trackick tcase is 1:1.
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Without putting crawler gears in it, shouldn't that be perfect with 31's then? I'm just trying to find the best option here and I thought that the high range reduction would make up for the lack of power during on-road driving. I've thought about putting my Kick on 33's but I have seen someone else attempt it with a 4 door with the Calmini 6" combo and the tires were just eating the fenders for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I also don't want to deal with the front end blowing up on every trail ride.
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According to my calculations......
With 5.125 gears, 5 speed tranny, true 31" tires (yours probably won't measure 31" tall, so you RPMs will be slightly higher than what I have posted below at the same given speed) and a samurai tcase with a stock 1.409:1 high range, your RPMS will be.....
4039 |removethispart|@ 60MPH
4712 |removethispart|@ 70MPH
if you have a trackick with an 8V engine (.86 5th gear ratio in the tranny).
and...
3733 |removethispart|@ 60MPH
4356 |removethispart|@ 70MPH
if you have a trackick with a 16V engine (.795 5th gear ratio in the tranny).
So I guess the question is.....is that where you want to be?
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Also remember that a samurai tcase rear output does not come straight out the back of the case (in line with the tranny and rear third)....so you will have a compound angle rear driveshaft.
X2. Expect vibes. Best thing would be a customs offset rear housing (dunno who would make such a thing), or a Sammy rear axle with wheel spacers.
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With the length and shallow angle the rear driveline would be, there would be none or very little vibration from u-joint angle issues. If he were running 10" of suspension lift and had the Sami t-case far enough back to use the stock length intermediate driveline he might have issues. But not with such a small amount of lift with a short intermediate with both u-joints on it.
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3733 |removethispart|@ 60MPH
4356 |removethispart|@ 70MPH
if you have a trackick with a 16V engine (.795 5th gear ratio in the tranny).
That's about the same as stock, is it not? I don't really remember on mine because I moved up to 235's after a month but I remember doing about 120 km/h (70 MPH) it would rev at 4000 rpm. I guess I could always move up to 33's but that is going to be ALOT more work, and I don't think they will fit very good on my 4 door. There's no room to hack the fenders in the back.
With the length and shallow angle the rear driveline would be, there would be none or very little vibration from u-joint angle issues. If he were running 10" of suspension lift and had the Sami t-case far enough back to use the stock length intermediate driveline he might have issues. But not with such a small amount of lift with a short intermediate with both u-joints on it.
I was also thinking that because mine is a 4 door the driveshaft angle shouldn't be an issue. I'm only running 1.5" of suspension lift and MAY be pumping it up to 2" but I doubt that will affect it harshly.
I'm really having a hard time making up my mind. There's a guy in town who will have a 2WD 5-speed, Sammy transfer case, and a shortened intermediate shaft ready to sell in a few weeks. I'm just trying to figure out if I should go that route or just order Trail Tough's 4.24:1 gears. I only want to do this once... :P Thanks for all the advice so far guys, keep it coming.
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I also have a 4 door with a sidekick case and a sammi case. I am running a centered toy rear axle with yj springs and the vibes are minor. I think that the 37" tires cause more vibaration than the driveshaft does. I mounted my sammi case with a trailtough mighty kong and welded mount brackets to the frame.
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I'm not really looking to run 37" tires though. I want it be able to crawl good with 31 to 33" tires.
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3733 |removethispart|@ 60MPH
4356 |removethispart|@ 70MPH
if you have a trackick with a 16V engine (.795 5th gear ratio in the tranny).
That's about the same as stock, is it not? I don't really remember on mine because I moved up to 235's after a month but I remember doing about 120 km/h (70 MPH) it would rev at 4000 rpm. I guess I could always move up to 33's but that is going to be ALOT more work, and I don't think they will fit very good on my 4 door. There's no room to hack the fenders in the back.
I think those numbers are about 500RPM higher than with a stock setup.
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Just look at things this way. I have built many Samurais over the years. With the puny little 1.3 with no power and 31s or 33s. Stock transfercase gears with 5.12s in the axles. went down the freeway at 70-80 mph just fine. Some even dragging a small back-half Sami trailer at the same time. You just have something that ways a little more with more power and better aerdynamics.
The 4.24 gears will only take care of off-road ability. Won't change going down the freeway at all.
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Just look at things this way. I have built many Samurais over the years. With the puny little 1.3 with no power and 31s or 33s. Stock transfercase gears with 5.12s in the axles. went down the freeway at 70-80 mph just fine. Some even dragging a small back-half Sami trailer at the same time. You just have something that ways a little more with more power and better aerdynamics.
The 4.24 gears will only take care of off-road ability. Won't change going down the freeway at all.
What are you trying to say? That I don't need the high range reduction and I should just get the TT gears? I'm starting to think that as well because I' not really planning on running 33's. Too much other stuff that will go wrong with that big of a tire.
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I am running 33's and have not had any problems with that big of a tire
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Well this is how I see things.
To run 31's all I need to do is buy the tires and get some gears so I can actually crawl properly. Maybe beef up the idler arm mount.
To run 33's I'll first need to ditch my 1.5" spacer lift and get a 4" lift and possibly a 3" body lift instead of a 2" BL. I'm not afraid to trim the front fenders but there isn't a whole lot of room to trim out back because the doors are about 3/4" from the fender. Then there is the matter of gearing. I'd need to swap in the 2WD trans/Sammy transfer case to make it drive adequately on the road (this is my DD, I forgot to mention), most likely the front axle wouldn't hold up under the rigourous wheeling we have around these parts so I'd need to swap in a steel diff from a V6 Zuk. While I'm doing that I may as well toss in yota CV's and the Hagan widening mod. It's alot of work and alot of money, that nets me a few more inches of ground clearance but I think I'd rather just buy a different vehicle than dump another 3-4 grand into a vehicle I bought for $3700.