ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: Yankee-Tim on February 21, 2008, 11:15:05 AM
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How many folks are still running the "shiit-on-the-fly" front air diff? If you are, why? Would just like to know.
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Yep, I am.
a) It hasn't let me down yet. When it does, adios.
b) I haven't installed manual hubs yet. Fully intend to just for the sake of minimizing wear and tear and getting a fractional fuel economy increase, but just haven't yet.
A semi-related story:
When I did the drivetrain swap, I needed to move the truck about 50 miles before I'd had the new rear driveshaft fabricated, and also before I had the e-brake reattached. I capped off the back of the auto tranny, refilled the tranny and xfer case, put it in 4WD and went on my merry way, fwd-style. Worked like a charm, until.....
....okay, all the clues are there. Anybody care to take a stab at finishing the tale?
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i'm still running it with auto hubs, haven't had any issues yet and the dealer treats me real good when i visit....
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Me too, still havn't failed me yet. I try to put it into 4WD often just to keep everything moving. Works so far ;)
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Worked like a charm, until.....
You hit a pot hole and dropped the joint on your lap, which quickly rolled into your Speedo clad groin area and while you jumped around like a mexican bean trying to recover, the changing traffic light when unnoticed resulting in you rear-ending the UPS truck stopped in front of you. :laugh:
You said take a stab at "finishing the tale", not on how it actually ended.
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Worked like a charm, until.....
You hit a pot hole and dropped the joint on your lap, which quickly rolled into your Speedo clad groin area and while you jumped around like a mexican bean trying to recover, the changing traffic light when unnoticed resulting in you rear-ending the UPS truck stopped in front of you. :laugh:
You said take a stab at "finishing the tale", not on how it actually ended.
Anybody know what gets coffee spew out of keyboards?
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I still have mine and I like it.
For the price of a switch and a relay I have 4WDLo, thanks to the pneumatic clutch gear.
I'd fit one to my X-90 if I weren't too lazy!
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NO!!! put on manual hubs and unhooked within a week after purchase! but that is just me...... old habits die hard. :laugh:
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Alright. Guess no-one else has learned this particular lesson yet.
When I did the drivetrain swap, I needed to move the truck about 50 miles before I'd had the new rear driveshaft fabricated, and also before I had the e-brake reattached. I capped off the back of the auto tranny, refilled the tranny and xfer case, put it in 4WD and went on my merry way, fwd-style. Worked like a charm, until.....
....I parked it. While the engine was still running, putting the transmission in "Park" did exactly what it's supposed to do: immobilize the vehicle. Once the engine was turned off, however, the little vacuum pump that engages the front diff also turned off. Which meant no more vacuum. Which meant the front diff was no longer engaged. Which meant "Park" no longer meant "Park", but rather "Free To Roll Wherever/Whenever You Please".
That's something to remember if you a) still have the shift-on-the-fly and b) should ever park somewhere where only your front wheels have traction (like if your rears are on an ice patch). Once you shut it down (or lose a vacuum line or something), that front end is back to freewheeling.
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Alright. Guess no-one else has learned this particular lesson yet.
When I did the drivetrain swap, I needed to move the truck about 50 miles before I'd had the new rear driveshaft fabricated, and also before I had the e-brake reattached. I capped off the back of the auto tranny, refilled the tranny and xfer case, put it in 4WD and went on my merry way, fwd-style. Worked like a charm, until.....
....I parked it. While the engine was still running, putting the transmission in "Park" did exactly what it's supposed to do: immobilize the vehicle. Once the engine was turned off, however, the little vacuum pump that engages the front diff also turned off. Which meant no more vacuum. Which meant the front diff was no longer engaged. Which meant "Park" no longer meant "Park", but rather "Free To Roll Wherever/Whenever You Please".
That's something to remember if you a) still have the shift-on-the-fly and b) should ever park somewhere where only your front wheels have traction (like if your rears are on an ice patch). Once you shut it down (or lose a vacuum line or something), that front end is back to freewheeling.
it's always freaking hilarious to watch someone chaseing "ghost car" ROTFLMAO
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Hi folks. Newbie here, been lurking for a few months.
In a word, yes.
Had a 99 GV automatic that was entirely stock. (Bought it used and had no mechanical issues untill I bent every side but the top while avoiding an idiot pedestrian at 50mph.) Air valve worked ok in that one. Now have 2001, again hi milage used, with the only mods being K&N air filter and 29 inch BFG AT KO's (stock wheels). Air valve works ok. I actuate the hi and lo 4 wheel about once every 45 days or so to keep the insides of the boxes wet, and keep the air valve from freezing up.
My off road action is riverbed rock with minimal climbing, and, of course, snow and ice in the winter. And there are infinite 2 tracks in Southern Oregon to follow.
I loved the humor of the FWD experience.
Pat
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Reason I ask this is to find out how many GV'rs were locking the front end, via LSD/Detroit/ARB. Since many GVs came with the steel axle housings, they are great candidates to install a front traction-adding device.
Seems the GV is still not at the age where extreme modifications are common, compared to say the older sister, the Sidekick. I'm surprised as they are better looking (my opinion), have the big block and make a better trail rig when built. But the build can be a little daunting. I had a hard-to-find 26 spline Sidekick inner shaft on Egay, but not a single bid. I found it odd for a few years back when the swap write up was done, most said that finding the correct 26 spline inner shaft was the hardest bit to acquire and the reason the swap wasn't getting done. I figured this axle would have been snapped up, but I was wrong. I guess it will be just a matter of time before these trucklets come of age and more available to the wheeling crowd,
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I did the 5:12 Trackick front 3rd swap and hybrid CV with lockouts to mine. I now have piece of mind that the air system can't fail leaving me stuck. Also, if I break a CV I can unlock the hubs, put it in 2wd and drive home.
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Well.....I wish I could say no, but I still have it. My ring and pinion guy didn't quite understand that when I swapped to 5.12 gears, I wanted him to remove the air actuator in the front, not just put the Sidekick R&P in. Consequently, I still get a little banging from the front in 4wd (skipping a tooth under torque-load), and still have a chance of pump/vacuum line failure. So far, no problems, though. If it fails me, or rather, when it fails me, I just hope I can get off the trail and back home. Then, I'll replace the whole damn thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the actuator gear skipping under heavy load (as annoying as it might be) lessen the chances of breaking another component (like an axle)? If so, that might be reason to consider keeping the air actuator.......food for thought.
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I don't like "fusible links" in my drivetrain unless they are an easy trail fix. One could find themselves into something that full 4x4 got one into, and only full 4x4 would get one out of. I've been in locations before where breaking any axle or diff component would mean being stranded.
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... Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the actuator gear skipping under heavy load (as annoying as it might be) lessen the chances of breaking another component (like an axle)? If so, that might be reason to consider keeping the air actuator.......food for thought.
If the skipping under heavy load is reliable, I think it would. Anyway, as I said, I like my air diif, so I'm delighted you came up with that justification :)
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I converted my air diff on my '01 tracker. Once the pump system stopped working I decided I wasn't going to put any money into it so I did the conversion. I haven't had a problem with any of the "new" components. Though I do kind of miss not having to get out of the car to lock the hubs - but the peace of mind knowing that 4wd will actually engage is worth it.
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If the skipping under heavy load is reliable, I think it would.
Obviously, you haven't been into the stock air diff. If you had, and seen its construction, skipping of gears is NOT a good thing by any means. You'll evenutually strip the gear, and have nothing. And like I said, it might be right when you need 4WD the most.
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I switched to manual hubs and not a moment too late. I've broken the crappy aluminum from housing twice (1999 tracker). Both times I would have been stuck on the trail with auto hubs.
FYI, I'm doing a solid axle swap this summer consisting of chopping up and re building a rear grand vitara diff. I'm excited to try it out. I'm sure I'll be running photos and updates when I get started.
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To remove or disable the air actuator and put Warn hubs or others (thinking Warn because they have available, I think, the hub protector which fits in so you can just change it instead of ruining entire hub) in the front. Maybe there is a thread to a post where someone has done it and explains it? If it looked like a half easy project, I would not be opposed to doing my 2000 2 door convertible Vitara. You'd be surprised how far they will go in just stock form. First thing I need is more clearance. Then I have to get a winch to be able to get out of trouble. Guessing next that I'd go with lockers of some kind or maybe armor to the bottom side. I really like how they work. Thanks, Gary.
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I have a 2001 Vitara 2.0L. Just wondering if I could get a simple step-by-step walkthrough from the pros on how to switch from auto-locking hubs to manual hubs. I understand the hubs are a direct bolt-on, I just need to know the part about the air actuator. Do you just pull an air line off somewhere and plug it?
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No, you have to open the unit and mechanically wedge the mechanism in the engaged position. Someone did it with a plastic wire tie.
Do a search, it's on this board.
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Ok, I did a search...and I also picked up a 5.13 front axle with third member from the wrecker this weekend...what would be the better, more reliable option...
a) Keep the Vitara axle and jam the actuator in the engaged position (still completely unsure of how this is accomplished...pics anywhere?), just swap the third members and put manual hubs on
b) Put the Sidekick axle in and use Sidekick CV's and manual hubs...no third member swapping required. It is a direct bolt-in, correct?
I also understand you can't use Sidekick CV's on Vitaras because the diff is offset 1". True or not true?
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I would think that adding some sort of a solid machined steel ring and permanently engaging the gears would be a great solution. Then you don't have to mess with creating hybrid CV shafts. Then just swap the R&P. Then again, machining or rigging a fix for the air actuator might be more complicated than switching in the 5.13 guts and creating hybrid CVs. Your call, I guess....
Here are some things that might help you, as I'm getting ready to have my air actuator fixed:
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Just so you know - creating the hybrid CV/axle shaft was surprisingly easy. Don't be afraid of this part. No special tools needed. I got the donor shaft from Trail Tough - ask for Brent and he'll know exactly what you need to perform the swap.
You'll also want to pick up the inner axle shaft since it is a slightly different length, you'll need the 26 spline one from a '96-98.
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you'll need the 26 spline one from a '96-98
Question is, does it HAVE to be a Japanese-built Sidekick? I already own a 1997 Sidekick that I can take parts off of, but it's not a Japanese one. The vin doesn't start with JS...
So far I haven't been able to find any solid reasoning as to why the Canadian units are unsuitable! It's really frustrating me!
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you'll need the 26 spline one from a '96-98
Question is, does it HAVE to be a Japanese-built Sidekick? I already own a 1997 Sidekick that I can take parts off of, but it's not a Japanese one. The vin doesn't start with JS...
So far I haven't been able to find any solid reasoning as to why the Canadian units are unsuitable! It's really frustrating me!
I've been checking in the parts catalogue, and the front drive shafts for the 96-98 are different #s for Product of Japan and Product of Canada. It is likely that Suzuki made some changes to the shafts, which they introduced on the 96-98 models in Japan, but not till 99 in Canada. Maybe the mix-and-match only works with the new design parts?
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You are on to it Ian.
The info I got on this that lead to the ZW write-up came from Steve Kramer at CALMINI. Steve found out the hard way that there was a difference, and I made sure the write-up was specifc about what parts to use and not to use.
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I've done the swap with the 1.8L and now problem (YET?). I had trouble finding Japanesse parts, and could not find a reason to NOT use the Cami part. It fits in fine and runs fine. I've only taken it into the bush a few times, but all seems good. I don't beat on her to much >:D , she is my DD. I always check her under; no skid plate yet :o , and no SOS (smoke,oil,sparkes).
I'll keep you updated if I ever do have trouble with the diffs that I have, but I think all's good (knock on wood). It's nice to have more options.
I did goof up with the rear. Put in the wrong year locker. Took it to a transmission shop to fix and put back to free spool. They mentioned that they had to do a little milling; something was just lightly touching something else, works fine. The locker was kinda an impulse, kinda glad I don't have it with winter coming. I live in a pretty snowy area, I don't want to lose traction going round a snow packed corner.