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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Carnage on March 18, 2008, 03:48:04 PM

Title: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 18, 2008, 03:48:04 PM
I emailed acmeadapters to get a price quote for their vw diesel applications


Tracker/Sidekick.  We can provide you with a conversion vehicle done if you like. Standard 2 door softop 1.6TD conversion sells for $9800 and can vary  depending on options. The standard 4 door hard top 1.9TD version sells for  $11,500  and can vary depending on your options.  Shipping not included

If you supply the vehicle you may deduct $1000 from the total



Is it just me or is that price kinda high?


(http://acmeadapters.com/images/gallery/19/disp_tracker%20diesel%20eng1.jpg)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: takai on March 18, 2008, 05:45:21 PM
Just a little on the high side.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: jeff1997 on March 18, 2008, 06:15:06 PM
How many Sidekicks do you get for $11,500, 2 or 3?  ???Those diesel motors must be made of gold. Just curious, why diesel ? It's $4.09 here  >:(
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 18, 2008, 06:50:15 PM
How many Sidekicks do you get for $11,500, 2 or 3?  ???Those diesel motors must be made of gold.

Thats what I was thinking.

Just curious, why diesel ? It's $4.09 here  >:(

Veggie Oil
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Lunchbox5k on March 18, 2008, 07:23:41 PM
not veggie oil in general, used fryer oil, it boils out all of the water, only problem is you go through plenty of fuel filters
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: ROSS on March 18, 2008, 07:26:13 PM
plus the person following you gets hungry for french fries
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 18, 2008, 07:31:14 PM
not veggie oil in general, used fryer oil, it boils out all of the water, only problem is you go through plenty of fuel filters


food actually reintroduces water into the oil

so its best to pan test once youre done filtering

but yes... Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: jeff1997 on March 18, 2008, 07:50:33 PM
WVO, cool!! There is a guy that lives near me and my company sponsors his pulling tractor. He uses WVO in his 05 Ford Super Duty. It runs great and his exhaust smells like fried chicken.  :D
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Cuthulu on March 18, 2008, 10:16:22 PM
Wait so heres some math:
500      Pulled VW motor
800      conversion kit
2000    good shape trackick
1500    Engine swap/conversion (I have called shops around here and North CA is not ceap)
-------------------------------------------------------
4800   Total

Now this is verses 9800, I understand markup but damn that is insulting.

I have been debating this swap myself because I love diesel and the mileage would be nice.   BUT I have spent some time in other forums that have a section just for this and as far as feel on the throttle there is no big improvment, only the mileage gain.

Just seems steep to me.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 18, 2008, 10:43:29 PM
Wait so heres some math:
500      Pulled VW motor
800      conversion kit
2000    good shape trackick
1500    Engine swap/conversion (I have called shops around here and North CA is not ceap)
-------------------------------------------------------
4800   Total

Now this is verses 9800, I understand markup but damn that is insulting.

I have been debating this swap myself because I love diesel and the mileage would be nice.   BUT I have spent some time in other forums that have a section just for this and as far as feel on the throttle there is no big improvment, only the mileage gain.

Just seems steep to me.



my thoughts EXACTLY
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: TrakJD on March 19, 2008, 12:57:09 AM
A few years ago, I was looking into doing this Diesel swap, Jeff at Acmes told me that It would cost 3500 for me to do it, and that he would do it for 1500 or 2500 more (this is for the 1.6TD.  I was like WHoaaa..... Never talked to him again about diesel swap.  A friend of mine has diesel in his Samurai and tracker.  He said he did it for less than 2000 including the swap kit, also mentioned that it takes time to get it all done. 

Bought his hi-steer for my old samurai that was the only thing i bought from Jeff.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: bashzuk on March 19, 2008, 08:10:45 AM
anyone factor in the shipping cost? heavy stuff costs a lot to ship
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 19, 2008, 09:49:00 AM
anyone factor in the shipping cost? heavy shit costs a lot to ship

well its a car

typical shipping these days are about $800+
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Zukipilot on March 19, 2008, 09:58:25 AM
anyone factor in the shipping cost? heavy shit costs a lot to ship

well its a car

typical shipping these days are about $800+

It cost $1000 to ship my Kick from TN to OR when fuel was .50-.75 cheaper. I have no idea what OR to HI would cost (is  HI the proper abbreviation for Hawaii?)

Zig
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 19, 2008, 10:22:36 AM
yeah, its HI
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Yankee-Tim on March 19, 2008, 01:10:03 PM
yeah, its HI

Hi!  How are you?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: kledi on March 19, 2008, 01:43:42 PM
I don't know about there, but here in europe you can get a low mile VW 1.6/1.8 TD even for less than $1000.

I can only say that the 1.6 and even the 1.8 of the vw are very economical engines. the average consumption per 100km would be around 5-6 liters highway (that would be less than 2 gallons) and 7-9 city.

veggie oil is economical, but the rig will smell like fries (or chicken... depending what the oil was used for :) )
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 19, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
yeah, its HI

Hi!  How are you?  :laugh:


NV MN  ::)



I don't know about there, but here in europe you can get a low mile VW 1.6/1.8 TD even for less than $1000.

I can only say that the 1.6 and even the 1.8 of the vw are very economical engines. the average consumption per 100km would be around 5-6 liters highway (that would be less than 2 gallons) and 7-9 city.

veggie oil is economical, but the rig will smell like fries (or chicken... depending what the oil was used for :) )


Gas Mileage would be 30-40mpg

And my rig would be probably smell like asian food

(thats what my last ride smelled like, and oil from asian food is better than french fry/burger oil)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Lunchbox5k on March 19, 2008, 05:21:37 PM
You know whats funny, is how many times the VW diesel conversion has come up. I know for a fact that I have posted a thread once already on this and came to the conclusion that unless your looking for serious torque or high mpg the conversion is not cost effective. There is only two kits out there one is made by RRO and is for the Sami only and the other is from Acme and is way over priced for what it really is. You figure 2K for the conversion, imagine what you could do to your rig with 2K. You could rebuild the heck out of the stock motor (cam, porting&polishing, intake, full exhaust system) the list goes on. I say if you got the time and money to burn Hell Ya go for it!
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: pepatt on March 19, 2008, 06:08:02 PM
Seems to me if your doing it for mileage you'll need to keep and drive that vehicle for about 45 years in order to get a return on your investment (don't hold me to that math!). If you want the Diesel for a performance reason that's different. Just seems like a lot a scratch. I agree with Lunchbox5k, you could put a lot of fun into that rig for the money (IMHO).
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 19, 2008, 06:38:26 PM
Seems to me if your doing it for mileage you'll need to keep and drive that vehicle for about 45 years in order to get a return on your investment (don't hold me to that math!). If you want the Diesel for a performance reason that's different. Just seems like a lot a scratch. I agree with Lunchbox5k, you could put a lot of fun into that rig for the money (IMHO).



my family and i are very comfortable with the tracker.  although if they made a small diesel suv (with the same perks as a tracker for around 5K) i would probably get that.  but they dont have one in the states so its this method for lack of another path
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Cuthulu on March 20, 2008, 07:16:17 AM
Seems to me if your doing it for mileage you'll need to keep and drive that vehicle for about 45 years in order to get a return on your investment (don't hold me to that math!). If you want the Diesel for a performance reason that's different. Just seems like a lot a scratch. I agree with Lunchbox5k, you could put a lot of fun into that rig for the money (IMHO).


Try 70 years in Northern CA, Diesel is any where between 4.20-4.35 a gallon here as of yesterday, depending on where you stopped.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 20, 2008, 12:09:25 PM
Seems to me if your doing it for mileage you'll need to keep and drive that vehicle for about 45 years in order to get a return on your investment (don't hold me to that math!). If you want the Diesel for a performance reason that's different. Just seems like a lot a scratch. I agree with Lunchbox5k, you could put a lot of fun into that rig for the money (IMHO).



Try 70 years in Northern CA, Diesel is any where between 4.20-4.35 a gallon here as of yesterday, depending on where you stopped.




lets see how my math is

letsay i typically spend $120/month on gas

running mostly wvo will cut my gas bill down to $20/month

100/month = 1200/year

so it pays for itself entirely in 4 years


PLUS

I would sell my other tracker for a few grand
so...
It would pay for itself entirely in 1-3 years depending
.
.
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Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: mic on March 20, 2008, 12:26:30 PM
Just hope people keep eating Asian food for another 3 years. ;)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: geeeeoooo on March 20, 2008, 01:55:53 PM
ya...they must be HIGH.....
a new damn tracker prolly didnt even cost that much loot from the stealership
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: gravity_storm on March 20, 2008, 03:02:21 PM
Maybe they are using a new motor rather than a used one?
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: RACER X on March 20, 2008, 03:06:37 PM
you cant just pure crap food oil in your diesel it has to be converted it may be cheap but it takes time alot more time than driving to the pump and filling up. $2000 thats alot of fill ups with out getting your hands dirty i do think going green is great if its worth the price/hassel
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 20, 2008, 03:17:16 PM
you cant just pure crap food oil in your diesel it has to be converted it may be cheap but it takes time alot more time than driving to the pump and filling up. $2000 thats alot of fill ups with out getting your hands dirty i do think going green is great if its worth the price/hassel


oil doesnt have to be converted

it needs to be filtered and dewatered
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: pepatt on March 20, 2008, 03:29:11 PM
 
Quote
you cant just pure crap food oil in your diesel it has to be converted it may be cheap but it takes time alot more time than driving to the pump and filling up. $2000 thats alot of fill ups with out getting your hands dirty i do think going green is great if its worth the price/hassel

OK, now my question is: Do you already have the setup for turning WVO into biodiesel? There is a cost to producing it. I sincerely doubt you can even make it for $20/month. I know a lot of guys with diesel trucks. A lot of those guys love to build and fabricate stuff. NOBODY I know makes Biodiesel. It's too much of a hassel. If it's your passion and you love the craft (like home brewing) go for it. But mark my words, friend, you will never get a return on an investment of that nature in four years.
Quote
oil doesnt have to be converted
it needs to be filtered and dewatered


Mmmmmmm... not quite:
It is processed with Methanol and Lye (Methoxide)... blah blah blah.

Here's what you need:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELITE-BIODIESEL-PROCESSOR-New-Lower-Price-Biofuel_W0QQitemZ290214430746QQihZ019QQcategoryZ57114QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
...and here's how to make it:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

Cheers!
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 20, 2008, 03:48:17 PM
now what ever gave you the impression i was running biodiesel?

 ???
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: pepatt on March 20, 2008, 06:13:12 PM
now what ever gave you the impression i was running biodiesel?

Because you said you were looking at a VW diesel conversion. I assume that's a regular diesel engine. A standard diesel engine will run on biodiesel, but not (very well) on straight veggie oil. If you try that, you will REALLY have an expensive tracker on your hands by the time you replace everything that gets buggered up running WVO through it.

...or are you buying an engine already set up with the converted glow plugs, injectors and fuel pre-heater?


Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: beercheck on March 20, 2008, 07:28:00 PM
Zing!
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 20, 2008, 07:50:40 PM
now what ever gave you the impression i was running biodiesel?

Because you said you were looking at a VW diesel conversion. I assume that's a regular diesel engine. A standard diesel engine will run on biodiesel, but not (very well) on straight veggie oil. If you try that, you will REALLY have an expensive tracker on your hands by the time you replace everything that gets buggered up running WVO through it.

...or are you buying an engine already set up with the converted glow plugs, injectors and fuel pre-heater?


i said i want a diesel to run wvo

a standard diesel engine WILL run perfectly on svo if certain conditions are met

i dont need to list them because you already know them (riiiiiight?)


did i mention i live in Hawaii

Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 20, 2008, 08:00:24 PM
Zing!


let him try BC  ;)

ive got a few years of research and even had a diesel car that ran on veggie

so im curious as to what he'll say  8)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: pepatt on March 21, 2008, 05:10:56 AM
Quote
ive got a few years of research and even had a diesel car that ran on veggie
so im curious as to what he'll say
I say go for it. It's your money. My research says it's not worth it (to me).

This is my opinion from my lifestyle living in Ohio. I'm sure things are very different in Hawaii.
Quote
a standard diesel engine WILL run perfectly on svo if certain conditions are met
i dont need to list them because you already know them (riiiiiight?)

Right. And those conditions are either costly or a PITA, and don't deliver results as good a petrol diesel. However, you do live in a warm climate, so that alleviates one of the issues with WVO.

Hey, I don't mean any disrespect. I'm just trying to be helpful.
If this works in your case and you're happy with the results you get, by all means, go for it. I myself would dig a diesel Tracker, but I'm not willing to go through the hassle of running WVO or biodiesel. I'd just buy at the pump and enjoy the torque! ;D

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Bigzook on March 21, 2008, 05:29:57 AM
I don't know how it is there, but here WVO is getting very hard to find for free.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 21, 2008, 09:43:04 AM
ok, so I emailed acmeadapters to get a price quote for their vw diesel applications


Tracker/Sidekick.  We can provide you with a conversion vehicle done if you like. Standard 2 door softop 1.6TD conversion sells for $9800 and can vary  depending on options. The standard 4 door hard top 1.9TD version sells for  $11,500  and can vary depending on your options.  Shipping not included

If you supply the vehicle you may deduct $1000 from the total



Is it just me or is that price kinda high?
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: RACER X on March 21, 2008, 12:20:03 PM
if your minds made up why did you ask for everyones input?
dont waste my time G.E.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 21, 2008, 12:24:31 PM
if your minds made up why did you ask for everyones input?
dont waste my time G.E.

i asked about the price

dont waste your own time ttam

(youve been known to do that)
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: da_tub on March 21, 2008, 01:54:41 PM
now now ,play nice ... i my self think it's high ,I could build that rig my self two times or may be three at that price.. time to do it  well thats what your paying for... if you guys think your fuel is expensive in the states come on up here and then youll have something to cry about...lol   1.20 per liter and rising. i ay if you want it badenough.. build it who care it's just money.. you can't take it with you when you die....
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Drone637 on March 21, 2008, 04:39:49 PM
Don't forget, that price includes everything.  You bring them the machine, they put it in for you.  One step beyond plug and play.  :)

For me it's a bit high, but I have access to the hardware to build most of the kit on my own and enough friends with experience to do a full engine and computer swap.  But if I wanted to drop my rig off and have it running later, its not that bad.  Especially if they supply the diesel engine.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 21, 2008, 04:50:37 PM
Don't forget, that price includes everything.  You bring them the machine, they put it in for you.  One step beyond plug and play.  :)

For me it's a bit high, but I have access to the hardware to build most of the kit on my own and enough friends with experience to do a full engine and computer swap.  But if I wanted to drop my rig off and have it running later, its not that bad.  Especially if they supply the diesel engine.


well... minus the shipping

and for $1000... id rather have them provide the tracker
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: locjaw on March 21, 2008, 05:44:12 PM
Don't forget, that price includes everything.  You bring them the machine, they put it in for you.  One step beyond plug and play.  :)

For me it's a bit high, but I have access to the hardware to build most of the kit on my own and enough friends with experience to do a full engine and computer swap.  But if I wanted to drop my rig off and have it running later, its not that bad.  Especially if they supply the diesel engine.


well... minus the shipping

and for $1000... id rather have them provide the tracker
that better be a damn nice tracker for a grand ::)  and why the hell is there a 1700 dollar difference in price between a 4 door and 2 door, thats what i want to know >:(
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 21, 2008, 06:06:05 PM
Don't forget, that price includes everything.  You bring them the machine, they put it in for you.  One step beyond plug and play.  :)

For me it's a bit high, but I have access to the hardware to build most of the kit on my own and enough friends with experience to do a full engine and computer swap.  But if I wanted to drop my rig off and have it running later, its not that bad.  Especially if they supply the diesel engine.


well... minus the shipping

and for $1000... id rather have them provide the tracker
that better be a damn nice tracker for a grand ::)  and why the hell is there a 1700 dollar difference in price between a 4 door and 2 door, thats what i want to know >:(



its the going price of doors nowadays  ;)


but yeah... one big mystery  ???
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Uncivilized on March 22, 2008, 03:38:47 PM
Where I live 4-door Trackers are double the price, in some cases tripple.
I say go for it, but maybe see if he would negotiate a little. It is pricey, but it's also turn-key. All that's left for you is to spend the $200 - $300 on the stuff to run dual fuel. A friend of mine has his 97 running WVO, it actually runs a little more smooth on WVO. Only problem he had was a fuel switch soleniod went bad right away, but it was a cheap one from eBay, so he got a better quality one and it's been fine ever since.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: RACER X on March 22, 2008, 05:31:06 PM
I say go for it G.E. you rock!
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: hillbilly2 on March 22, 2008, 07:05:22 PM
Don't forget that if a lot of people go to alternate fuels the government will find some way to tax it! Just look at diesel, it used to be 25% the price of gasoline, and now its about 25% more. Supply and demand.
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 23, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Don't forget that if a lot of people go to alternate fuels the government will find some way to tax it! Just look at diesel, it used to be 25% the price of gasoline, and now its about 25% more. Supply and demand.

wasnt that over 10 years

and mostly because of the war
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Drone637 on March 24, 2008, 06:58:03 PM
Don't forget that if a lot of people go to alternate fuels the government will find some way to tax it! Just look at diesel, it used to be 25% the price of gasoline, and now its about 25% more. Supply and demand.

wasnt that over 10 years

and mostly because of the war

The raise in Diesel over the last few years is partially due to a refinery problem in the NW.  Two of the plants had their diesel production shut down and an accident closed a third.  So they raised the price of diesel, and after everything was up and running properly they just decided to keep it there.  :D
Title: Re: Price-Wise: What do you think???
Post by: Carnage on March 24, 2008, 07:09:58 PM
yeah that sucks

although im looking into getting that diesel made for HALF the price