ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: bentparts on April 03, 2008, 03:59:12 PM
-
Did a second compression check on the Tracker today after finding out I had done the first one incorrectly. The good news is it's over 190 lbs on all 4. The bad news is , I managed to screw up the plug wires putting it back together, and when I went to start I got several LOUD backfires. Got out the manual, corrected the plug wires, and it starts, but misses on #3. It's getting spark, checked all the wires , plugs etc, all was good. Still missing, like it's not firing on one cylinder. Checked the timing and it was Advanced like 25 degrees! OK, I thought the belt jumped or somthing. Pulled everything apart, and the timing belt seems to be lined up fine. My FSM has me confused on a couple of issues, one being the the distributor timing. I wanted to check if the dizzy jumped time, or broke a gear, or somthing went out of wack, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to set it correctly. If the cam and timing belt marks are lined up, where should the dizzy be pointing? #1, #4? Any help on this would be really appreciated.
-
If the timming belt jumped time, there would probally be very evident damage to the belt, not to mention a few bent valves. Probally wouldn't run at all or very rough. Might have poped a hole in the piston when it backfired, pull the dipstick with its running and if there is oil blowing out or a lot of air or smoke comming out that is probally it (unless your engine is worn out, then it would do it also). I would change the spark plugs out first though, because more than likely the isulator on number three is cracked shorting it out causing it not to fire. These are just a few things among many that can go wrong. Good luck.
-
Cam and timing belt marks should be lined up with no. 4 at TDC. You can see if its at TDC by checking the rocker movement through the oil filler cap.
Did you have the jumper in the diagnostic plug to fix the timing to base settings?
-
Cam and timing belt marks should be lined up with no. 4 at TDC. You might be able to see if its at TDC by checking the rocker movement through the oil filler cap.
Did you have the jumper in the diagnostic plug to fix the timing to base settings?
-
OK, Thanks Rhinoman. Now my FSM , the factory GM manual, says line the cam and timing marks up to #1 TDC. When I checked everything that's where it was. I tried putting the spark plug wires back on according to the same FSM, and it has 2 different wiring diagrams! Now I'm totally confused, at least last night it started but ran poorly,m now sit wont start at all. It used to run great the way it was, now I think I killed it, or at least injured it. Do you have any idea how the spark plug wires should be routed into the distributor on a 16v? If you look at the top of the dizzy, and imagine top left, top right, bottom left and bottom right, which cylinder wire goes where ? AND if mine is timed to #1 TDC, and it ran great before the comp test, what the heck did I do to it? and, BTW the jumper is in the diagnostic plug.
-
check #3 wire the boots tear esily when pullin them sometimes its real hard to see, it will arc out inside the valve cover, also make sure your setting up your dizzy 1324 counter clockwise NOT clockwise like the owners manuel says
-
Checked all the plug wires inside and out, 3x, all ok. Tried wiring it 1324 counter clockwise, got a fart out of it, that's all. Timing belt looked fine, no damage or evidence of it jumping. I followed the FSM to the letter in checking the cam timing, Re-setting the distributor ( according to the FSM, #1 cylinder to TDC compression stroke, measured with comp tester, set dist rotor to #1,) which I did, which according to FSM is upper right on dist. At this point I'm pretty stumped.
-
It's possible that you are now 180 degrees out of time now, The piston hits TDC on the exhaust stroke also. With the valve cover off, #1 plug out, turn engine over by hand until #1 hits TDC and exhaust and intake valves are closed, distributor should be pointing at #1 plug wire on tower. You can use a long skinny screwdriver in the spark plug hole to see when the piston has reached TDC.
-
Got it running again, but it's still sounds like it's missing. I've tried the plug wires every way described on this forum and Zuwarri's. So far I've done a bunch of searches and have come up with plug wiring sceneros of four different ways. My stupid FSM shows the firing order and distributor turning clockwise! That's backwards! Ive also tried turning the disty 180 degrees, no joy. I'm now thinking at this point I may be 1or 2 teeth off on the dizzy. It does start and idle fine, just sounds like it's not firing on one cylinder. Also with the timing lite on it, and the jumper in the diagnostic plug, it's still advanced. I'll keep trying. Thanks everyone for your input.
-
So far I've done a bunch of searches and have come up with plug wiring sceneros of four different ways. My stupid FSM shows the firing order and distributor turning clockwise!
My friend's FSM had this too. I also noticed the cam gear has 2 letter "E's" for markers... of course we lined it up to the wrong one, so we thought crank & cam were matched, but really weren't.
-
Even if I had the cam timing off, How is it that it ran perfect before I messed up the plug wires? If it ran that good, and it does, with the cam timing off, I'm keeping it that way for sure. I did check the cam timing very carefully several times, and it didn't jump form the time I replaced the belt 25k ago. I can get it to start and idle, and the motor will build rpm, just sluggishly. It will load up the plugs if I do run it too long. I've rechecked the compression, good across the board so I dont think I bent anything or holed a piston during my attempts to get it running. Now I'm beggining to regret never fixing my CEL, the bulb shook loose and fell out, never put it back in. So checking the codes may be a problem. I just may have to fix that now. I'm still not convinced that the plug wires are correct, I've seen 4 different ways to route it so far. Anyone out there got a 95/96 16v TracKick they could take a look at and clue me in? I'm beggining to think the problem isn't just ignition related, and I may have toasted some sensor or the ecm. I even pulled the turbo out of it and put the header back in, no difference.
-
I have a 97 4dr, is there anything I can do to help? Want pics, just let me know...
-
Thanks Jerry, A look at how your plugs are wired would be great, but I think they may have changed them in 96? If you could take a look at the order they go into the dist cap that would be great. THANKS!
-
My haynes book shows the 16v engine firing order is 1-3-4-2. The distributor shows it rotates counter-clockwise and the #1 plug attaches to the distributor on the lug closest to the passenger fender. I took a quick pic with my camera phone.
-
Didn't notice that you had a turbo, bad news, the backfire probally bent or broke one or more of the vanes. This would also explain the sluggish acceleration of the motor.
-
Actually, the turbo was out of of the system when all this happened. I was doing the compression check to try and chase down a oil blowby problem with the turbo system. So when all this happened, it was basicly a stock motor with a header. I did do a second compression test on all the cylinders, after the backfires, as stated above, and it held compression just fine, although I guess a leakdown test would be the best thing to do. I don't think or at least I hope the backfires didn't cause any mechanical damage, and from my past experience, these are non interference motors anyway, so unless combustion pressure could bend a valve, I doubt if anything came in contact. Maybe I'm way wrong, but a good compression test should indicate a sound sealing between rings and cylinder, and valve and seat. I think anyway, But now I'm second guessing myself on everything. Thanks afor the diagram spyder0069, that helps. Any other suggestions welcome, I guess it's time to fix my check idiot lite.
-
I know for sure, mine is a 94 sidekick 1.6 16 valve, 1
3 2
counter clockwise 4
put your crank at 12 make sure the timing notch and the keyway are both at 12
then make sure your cam E mark the E on the outer ring and make sure the cam keyway is at 6 with the E oposite at 12
stab your dist in so the rotor is at #4 straight down,
tdc is when #4 is on compression stroke the #1 is on exaust stroke that's what the E is on the cam
I was stumped on mine for a month I ended up taking it to japanese auto on 3rd south in provo if this is an option I recommend it mine runs great now!
-
OK Guys, first I want to thank everybody for all your help and suggestions. Here's an update of where I stand now. I wanted to recheck everything from the cam timing up, so I tore it all apart again, double checking everything. Timing belt and cam orientation are correct, as well as distributor lining up to #4 at TDC with the cam .E mark at the top, the crank keyway at the top, pointing at the mark on the oil pump. Thanks all for the tips. Spark plug routing is set at 1342 starting from the dist lug to the immediate right of the vent. I swapped in a spare set of plugs, wires, rotor and cap. I replaced the bulb and housing for my CEL, cleared all previous codes by disconnecting pos batt terminal for a few minutes. The only way it will start and idle is with the distributor turned to FULL RETARD. Check engine lite comes on when I turn the key to start, but does NOT stay on while running. ? WTF ? Can't get a code out of it either. It will continue to idle, smoothly, but smells of unburned fuel, and is very sluggish to build RPM. To get a code out of it does it need to be running while you jump the 2-3 pins on the diagnostic plug? I'm pretty convinced this is not a ignition related problem anymore, but that I may have toasted something in the ecm, or somewhere else. When I first put everything back together after doing the compression check, I did get the wires crossed. While it was running, I did unplug the wires from the dizzy, to swap them, and I could clearly hear the sparks jumping while I was trying to put them back in. I'm wondering If this caused a problem.
-
Oops! I rechecked the manual, vin code 6 is diagnostic ports 2 and 4 for codes, this time I got a 12, continuosly. That means no codes right? Very frustrating.
-
When I bought the timing belt for my 95-16v, the parts place said it was an interference engine, of course they have been wrong before. I wonder if maybe you have an injector thats stuck open or leaking, since you are having a fuel loading problem.
-
Fuel and sensors are the next things to check. Still trying to figure out why it'll only start and run only when it's fully retarded. Wish the thing would give me a code to work with.
-
sounds exactly like my story go back a few pages and read my posts my engine was doing the exact same thing, I bought a new header,o2 sensor, ecm, mass air flow sensor, fuel press reg, and plugs,wires,cap,rotor.... then took it to jap auto he said I just had the crank pully on wrong, and the dizzy off one tooth. these engines are super finicky try moving the belt one notch either way and then the dizzy one tooth either way
-
Every time I see this thread all I can think of is, where did it go and why did it leave?(http://www.zukikrawlers.com/images/smilies/happy0194.gif)
-
Wow. That was awesome. ;D
-
Bent parts,
Try taking the hold down bolt out of the distributor and turn it further. If the engine likes what you are doing it will let you know. If it prefers this set up then you have the distributor or wires incorrect. Sounds like you are out of time now, trying this step shouldn't make it worse.
You can time an engine on any cylinder if you stop and think about it, (Simple physics)
When Cylinder #(X)'s piston is at TDC then the cam must have the valves closed and the rotor should be pointing at that distributor pole. With these things correct it doesn't matter what any book says.
All 4 cyl engines firing order are either 1342 or 1432. I can hear which is correct when run, so I don't even memorize the specifics any more.
One Item I like to check is that TDC on the piston is TDC mark on the crank. A bad crank key way can give a big headache. I once owned a Tracker that had the crank key way repaired but the repair left it 30deg off. This was not told to me nor was it marked, I had to figure it out when I went to adjust the timing and came up with a non running truck.
-
Thanks Whitfield, after retiming it a dozen times, I finally figured that out, that it'll time on any cylinder. I'm gonna try and move the dizzy further like you suggest and see what happens. Also phloop, I found it! It ran away because it was tired of being experimented with!
-
BINGO! Whitfield, you were correct sir, I pulled the bolt and moved the dizzy further, and It fired right up and ran perfectly. So I guess my dizzy is a tooth of to the advanced side. It's weird, the rotor in the distributor is pointing directly at the correct plug , but maybe my timing belt IS a tooth off, I cant remember If I did that on pourpose or not. I may have as an experiment to gain better power and forgot. I need to keep better records I guess, I've done TOO much crap to this poor little trucklet! Should be a simple matter of pulling it and reseting. BTW, anytime you want to come up to check out the turbo stuff, your welcome to spend the night, I have plenty of spare room. Thanks again, and EVERYONE, a big Thanks for all your help and input!
-
BTW, anytime you want to come up to check out the turbo stuff, your welcome to spend the night, I have plenty of spare room. Thanks again, and EVERYONE, a big Thanks for all your help and input!
Glad it all worked out. They are hard to kill ~ Just keep them from over heating and keep them oiled well.
Thanks for the offer. I'd definatly like to catch up for the day and check out the Turbo set up. I've been following WildGoody's writings for a few years. I'm just now searching back and finding yours. I'm most impressed with the thought and time you have put into your set up. Can't wait to see it live.
Looks like I'm tied up for the next 60 days.
(2) Honda Civic head gaskets (our new ^ MPG daily drivers).
Prepping for the Zuwharrie event in 2-weeks
Prepping and racing my 2-dr tracker in the 4x4cross event May 11th (www.americanwheeler.com) Fastest time wins. next year ~ TURBO ???