ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: RACER X on May 26, 2008, 03:51:59 PM
-
Im thinling of making one big skid plate to cover from the a-arms to the rear dif
what do you guys think
-
Why? A Sami doesn't have A arms.
-
track kicks have a arms
-
I think it's a great idea if you plan to scrape and bash the crap out of your vehicle. It's going to weigh A LOT if you do it out of steel though! I have fairly modest skidplates for my front diff, transmisson, and transfer case and all together they probably weigh about 80 pounds.
-
I think it's a great idea if you plan to scrape and bash the crap out of your vehicle. It's going to weigh A LOT if you do it out of steel though! I have fairly modest skidplates for my front diff, transmisson, and transfer case and all together they probably weigh about 80 pounds.
Yikes - what other material cold be used to keep the weight down, but still offer protection?
-
Mike Hagon use to run a solid skid from the front to where the rear drive shaft comes out of the trany. I forgot the gage of metal he used but it was very thin. I think I have the spect's at home.
The only problem he said he had was that his feet got hot in the summer from the cat.
-
My choice would be 1/4 inch thick plastic, like the kind white cutting boards are made of. It would require lg. washers tho, and maybe some bracketry to allow recessed or hidden fasteners. I bet it would slide like grease!
-
lol, plastic.. serious?! it's not a skateboard!
-
1/4 inch aluminum or the plastic cutting board stuff is what i was thinking of using
-
My choice would be 1/4 inch thick plastic, like the kind white cutting boards are made of. It would require lg. washers tho, and maybe some bracketry to allow recessed or hidden fasteners. I bet it would slide like grease!
I'm getting ready to make my plastic skids in a week or so. Ill post pics....soon I don't remember the name of the plastic, but its stronger than steel could ever be. My father Runs a trainyard in Indy and they use this plastic to line there 13ton train cars to haul steel.
-
I think rally cars use teflon. I think the cutting board stuff is formica, I know they make sand boards for riding down dunes and being pulled my sand rails out of it.
-
most of the "white plastic" stuff is U.H.M.W plastic which stands for "ultra high moclecular weight" plastic. good stuff. tough as nails, slicker than snot! it is used a lot in the machenery industry(wood products, food procesing, ect...) can be ordered thru most steel yards. you will want to use like 1/2 inch thick just for it's sheer strength and so you have depth to recess fasteners.
-
plastic im talking about 1/4 thick sold in 8'x10' sheet at the countertop place by my work runs 100 a sheet
-
I recently saw a rig that used 12 ga steel for the skid plates to save weight,and then had plastic over it.It supposedly took a beating and the plastic slid great.
-
hhhmmm, i'd like to see this, for now i retract my skateboard statement - good luck!
-
locjaw does his homework! (mind if I copy?) U.H.M.W. is exactly what I'm talkin about! My rig is low budget tho, I wonder if there's a source for this stuff used? Recycling yards maybe. Speaking of recycling, what's that other slick plastic stuff called that is made from recycled plastic, looks something like plastic O.S.B., comes in all colors and sizes.... they have it at my plant on the tables to slide fresh machined parts on. I don't mean the recycled plastic they make deck boards out of, inflexible and they break ( been there,screw that)!
-
it does work real well, i like the 3/8" teflon i work at an aerospace manufacturer plant and have acces to stainless, aluminum, titanium, teflon, heat treated, tempered.....
im going with the teflon if you went off a jump and landed right on it it may get bashed through but so would steel, basicly if your bolts will hold it will too, the only down side is its so slick you cant control your slide im told aluminum is so soft it digs in and does not slide most popular is .120 mild steel (about 1/8 inch)
-
Well, 1/8 inch steel sheets I got, and that was the original plan. I have a 2wd tracker frame that I wanna SAS and take a little more time ( therefore more money) to build. I'm gathering up parts and materials and some feedback on lightweight plastic's durability would interest me. Anyone else? I've seen it on the bottom of some competitive rock crawlers (in vids).
-
U.H.M.W. is exactly what I'm talkin about!
That stuff is way too expensive for this purpose.
I'd personally use 1/8" plate, or the next size down. It's not that heavy that it would sag the front end ;) Besides, what's wrong with weight anyway? I'm trying to add weight to mine!
-
Yeah, and it's weight down low, a good thing, right? My son is building a semi mild VW baja (go to my flickr site in my profile) and I just helped him lay out a simple pan that covers his engine and transaxle. The 1/8 inch steel stuff is easy to work with and I picked a bunch of it up at the scrap yard. Our main prob is how to fasten it on and not leaving big bolts hanging down that we're gonna knock off or damage enough to make removal difficult. If you take a close look at the trans crossmember you can see how they've designed recessed bolt holes. these are stamped metal tho, ours we'd have to fab. I was just thinking (uh-oh!) about maybe building up the steel around the bolt holes with thick washers welded on or maybe welding or bending vertical tabs to bolt to the side of the frame. Ideas anyone?
-
I used cap head screws, the type that have the rounded edges. I've replaced them once because they were getting a bit worn down. You could also use the countersunk type with the special cup washers. You could also make a large round hole with a couple of plates welded behind it to sink a nut.
-
prolly the best is to bend the plate up on four corners with tabs tapped into the side of the frame, thats the other reason im using the plastic 3\8 thick gives good counter sink room without much loss in strenth my flat head bolt will be recessed 1\8 inch into the plastic surface
-
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/dustybadlands/DSC02015.jpg) This is how my son Steven bends 1/8 inch sheetmetal!
-
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/dustybadlands/DSC02017.jpg)
-
His idea to protect hi fasteners. Think this'll work on the rocks? (http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/dustybadlands/DSC02019.jpg)
-
great idea!!!
-
So, U.H.M.W is available |removethispart|@ steel & counter-top places? Any other sources? What do you use to work with it? Saws & regular drill / step down bits? How do you bend it / bond it? Or, are you stuck only using it in flat sheets?
-
yeah pretty much flat sheets work best ive seen someone notch a "v" out of the back side allowing an angle but it tore apart after about a year maybe too much notch maybe bad idea, use regular tools but it is way messy you will have shavings everywhere all over your tools
-
So, U.H.M.W is available |removethispart|@ steel & counter-top places? Any other sources? What do you use to work with it? Saws & regular drill / step down bits? How do you bend it / bond it? Or, are you stuck only using it in flat sheets?
Typically plastic supply shops, not steel shops. Have a look in your phonebook under "plastic" Basic woodworking tools work very well. As far as I've been told you cannot glue any UHMW or HDPE. Bending is tricky, you need to heat it where you want it to bend.
I still think 1/8" steel plate would be a better option. UHMW and even HDPE are real expensive, but I guess it depends where you live. For me it would probably be around $60 for the same coverage as $15 worth of 1/8" steel. I can buy an old oil tank for $25 that I could cut up and wrap the whole bottom ;)
-
Slightly off topic, but not really. Last night I was using the 1/8 stuff inside the fender wells, odd shaped area with multiple bends and the stuff was really pliable. Bent right in, easy to work. This is the stuff for me! When I button up the bottom, I think I'll use this with 1 inch square stock over long spans for more support. Use son Steve's fastener protection technique, and READY TO ROCK!!! (but not roll)
-
Steel is expensive here in cali, and the tools to work with it can be spendy ($20ish for a single metal drill bit at Home Depot :o ). I don't have anything I can cut it with... or weld :'(
So, if plastic is lighter, easier to work with, and I can use my existing wood-working tools / cutters / bits, it may be a more economical solution. I'll have to re-price steel (been a year or so) and the plastic. I still want to build my own square-tube bumpers with class 3 hitch front & rear... so I guess investing in metal tools isn't TOO bad of an idea...
-
Here is why you need a front skid p[late.
93, 8 Valve 3 Speed
-
Have you considered oil changes? You might want to cut out some holes for oil to drain and to get the filter off!
-
The plastic is a viable option. Four Wheeler Magazine once built up a 2003 Lexus GX470 (fancy 4Runner) to run the Rubicon trail and they used some sort of plastic material to cover the bottom. It would work, and it's not the worst idea because plastic doesn't rust, unlike steel, and it is much cheaper than 1/4" aluminum.
-
My buddy back in Colorado runs a Toyota in a big Yota club and they do some aggresive crawling. Almost every one uses the high density molecular plastic and it holds up just fine I was suprised to hear.
-
U.H.M.W. seems the best option, IF available AND affordable. I checked out a plastic supplier and it can be obtained in many dimensions. A 4X8 1/2 inch thick was well over $100. My 1/8 inch thick steel plate was 25 cents/lb. so thats $12.50 for a large 50# piece. Like I said earlier, if only we could get that cost down... I'm still sending out feelers for a better source. Maybe "Trackin_Tracker 33"s dad can get us all a good deal ! 'Till then, it's steel. Same reason my cage and guards are DOM and ERW, not Chromoly, affordability and availability.
-
I took some rough measurements...
"Big belly pan" protect from cross-member to transfer case bracket and frame to frame: 32" x 32"
"Small belly pan" protect from cross-member to transfer case bracket by width of braces: 32" x 16"
To Protect from croos-member to front (to protect diff): 21" x 21"
*edit: to clairify, big belly pan and small belly pan are covering the same area. But, one is wider (thus protecting everything between the frames), and one is narrower (exposing the exhaust system).
The under-belly sheets could be easily made & attached leaving everything flat. But I'm concerned about going from frame-to-frame with a big belly pan. It would put the plastic right next to (and possibly in-contact-with) the cat & exhaust. UHMW is only rated up to 280F, and constant temp operating temp of 180F http://www.jjorly.com/uhmw_technical_data_sheet.htm (http://www.jjorly.com/uhmw_technical_data_sheet.htm).
A narrower under-belly (32" x 16") would leave the exhaust exposed to rocks, but away from the plastic. And it would be cheaper for material.
A front skid (to protect diff) looks much more tricky. I don't see a flat area to bolt to up to around the bumper, and even taping into the cross-member looks out of my fab skills (self-tap screws / bolts maybe? Would that handle abuse?). Might be able to use the bolts where the lower A-arms are, but that will require some heating and bending:
http://www.garlandmfg.com/plastics/heatformingparts.html (http://www.garlandmfg.com/plastics/heatformingparts.html)
Ideally, I would think it best to have some kind of heating "rod" that the material could be bent over / around - where the heat is localized to the area desired to bend. Anyone have any ideas?
-
UHMW vs HDPE
I can't find a side by side by side comparison of the two for heat, UV and impact resistance or weight difference. But, the price difference is huge.
Anecdotally, HDPE seems to be softer than UHMW (more expensive, but takes quite a beating).
Bending the two materials seems to be about the same procedure (heat & bend), but I'm not sure. Still researching this.
UHMW Costs:
Wow, yeah. Looks like a 1/2" x 24" x 48" sheet is about $100 |removethispart|@ IND plastic & McMaster
http://www.indplastic.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail&id=858932&product=463 (http://www.indplastic.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail&id=858932&product=463)
http://www.interstateplastics.com/detail.aspx?ID=HDPEcuttingboard-SN051 (http://www.interstateplastics.com/detail.aspx?ID=HDPEcuttingboard-SN051)
http://www.mcmaster.com/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/):
Interesting to note: 1/2" x 24" x 48" = $80 (VHMW = UV resistant) (McMaster Part #: 8769K72)
HDPE costs are about 1/2 as much as UHMW
1/2" x 24" x 48" = $50
Costs for HDPE, double the cost for UHMW:
Big belly pan: $100
Small belly pan: $40
Front skid: $25
On a side note: Material appears to be available in black (UHMW) for about 10% more. I've read that UHMW has low UV resistance, and is not ideal for outdoor applications. Will this be a problem being under the trucks?
-
4x4 mech by my house says plasic or metal doesnt matter itll cause too much heat to go in the wrong direction causing more probs than benifits if i put holes in for venting that will take away from the "slide effect" im thinking seperate skids.............Im sooooo confused. 3 pieces not 1 seems more better
-
Einstein once said "never memorize anything you can refer to", when I have questions about plastic , I'm gonna refer to Jeremiah! This is getting like the "tube vs. pipe" debate. Lotsa engineering and research here, and all excellent stuff! Lemme know what you guys decide on. K.I.S.S. principle, gentlemen. This ain't the space shuttle. Speaking of space shuttles, a modular design would seem better on consumable parts like belly pans, that way I could replace only that area thats busted-up instead of the whole pan.
-
Here is an old pic of Hagens skid