ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Basher on July 19, 2008, 12:42:08 AM
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hey , been down in the shop welding some new suspension, cant avoid the obvious any longer, ive been runnin the1.3 on bardahls no smoke and slick 50 for the last year , its friggin done, my lawnmower has more power, the dam thing wont die, it starts first click but has always been a weakling, im lookin for sugestions for a swap, no fuel injection, im a fabber not a electrician, and i dont think the 1.6 would be enough, i wheel with v8 jeeps and im tired of getting embarrased in the slick stuff, i seem to make it but dam.... has anyone slapped in a 22r?im geussin i can keep my locked axels alive and the 120 horse sounds about right, i dont need a kit, i have tools and a brain, but im open to suggestions for sure, love to hear some feedback from some people who have good and bad swap stories
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Short answer:
If you can shoe-horn it in, you can do it.
Long answer:
Both the 22R and the Ford 2.3 have been discussed as upgrade motors but it seems to come down to this - both are physically too long and require too much installation fabbing for any potential gains.
GM 4.3 V-6 is the most popular large engine swap.
Another popular swap is the VW 1.6 or 1.9 Diesels (NA or Turbo).
The key to a good Samurai swap is to keep it small and light. Small and Light is what makes the Samurai outperform the larger trucks in many situations. Heck, you might be suprised at the results you get from a 1.6 16-valve swap!
I hope that this helps!
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Tough little engine. I had one in a 77 celica. Had over 250 thousand miles on it and would still hold 120 without blowing up. I was young and stupid. Double roller timing chain. Pretty bullet proof. I didn't thint it had low end torque though. Clutch finally rusted and broke and it was time for a new car anyways so I sold it to some asian dudes that were going to make it into thier "sweet little race car". That was in 88. Precurser to the ricer ?
-Adam
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The 1.6 16V with a good exhaust and intake will net you over a 100 hp. With a good set of gears it should be able to wrap up for you. Or you could go for a 2.8l V6.
Of course, there is the odd 302 and I think someone had a 360 conversion...
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I wanna see one of those little 4cyl Cummins out of an Aussi Toyota go in a Sammy! It is all mechanically fueld and would be one bad machine! I think it would out do the Volks swap, anyone heard of this?
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The 1.6 16V with a good exhaust and intake will net you over a 100 hp. With a good set of gears it should be able to wrap up for you. Or you could go for a 2.8l V6.
Of course, there is the odd 302 and I think someone had a 360 conversion...
im running 538 axels and a 4to1 already, the little four is just waay to weak for my use, im thinking more and more about the buick 231, anybody running that?
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I know you said "no fuel injection", but I'd urge you to not dismiss it so quickly. A 2.0L engine is FI. If you don't like wiring, have someone like trail tough do it. They do great wire work, and literally make things plug n play. What you'll gain...
* 2.0L = Gobs of power to weight ratio. Aluminum block & heads with 125 HP & Torque
* FI = fantastic cold starts, great at altitude changes, better MPG, longer lasting engine, no off-camber fuel starvation issues
22re is hard to fit, but it can be done. It's also very heavy. If power's that important to you, the 4.3L Chevy V6 is a good option, but will take lots of fab time and $$$.
To me, the whole point of Suzuki is cheap & light. If you love power, you can build a Toyota, Jeep, Blazer or Bronco for less money than a 4.3L swap.
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Myself , I love the 4.3 . Now I have never put one in a Suzuki but I don’t think it would be that hard .
I did do the 4.3 swap in my 1970 IH scout 800 , swap wasn’t hard even though folks told me it would be and if you get an older non vortec you can run a carb or TBI .
I started our with a 4 barrel on mine and then built my own TBI harness . Like you the thought of electronics’ simply scared the He77 out of me . But it wasn’t that hard and now that I have it installed I believe its much , Much better then going carburetion.
I wouldn’t expect the swap to a 4.3 to run anymore then the scout did .
Basically excluding the engine she ran me around 500. that’s for new cross over with perches for the engine mounts . New input shaft and bell housing ,+ an electric fan for cooling .
Mine with the headers , milled heads and readline cam , forged pistons . was dinoed at just over 300 HP. With the stock IH 4 speed , she will flat make the front end light in my little 800 when I need to .
Here is a shot of it in my scout .
Put it in a Sidekick or sami and I think she could flat get away from you in a hurry even if left stock .
dont forget its a high rev engine
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/scout/DSC00533.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/scout/DSC00179.jpg)
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thanks for the input jeramiah, ive been thinkin that one over, the buicks are getting harder to find and theres no doubt the 4.3 is a better engine what with the 3.8s oiling issues, and yea even a stock one should be friggin nasty in a 1900 pound sammi
also a huge fan of the scouts, my first wheelin was in a 800 at 13 in south dakota chasing up cows, thanks for the pics , shes a sexy lady
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That reminds me. My brothers Scout 800B with a V8 is sitting next to the garage waiting for some electrical love...
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Link... :)
http://www.suzukiconversion.com/suzuki_kits.htm#
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Two things about the 4.3 V-6 transplant:
Finding a bellhousing to match the 5-speed Samurai transmission to a 4.3 will be danged hard if not impossible. If you look at the Lightning conversions kits in rollover's post (http://www.suzukiconversion.com/suzuki_kits.htm (http://www.suzukiconversion.com/suzuki_kits.htm), you will notice that they provide you with a kit that uses a typical GM transmission like a TH350, TH200 or 200R4 behind the engine. So plan on an engine/transmission swap.
Lightning Conversions has developed a reputation in the Samurai world that is similar in nature to Rocky Road's. They have done some stupid stuff and alienated more than a few folks over the years.
I personally witnessed a spectacle at one of the ZookiMelts where someone finally called the Sherriff to stop a heated discussion between a disgruntled customer and the Lightning folks. The customer's truck was at the event and even a dummy like me could tell that the conversion workmanship was not very good. Now their kits - installed by you or someone with decent fabbing skills - might be very good.
Perhaps someone here can comment on the quality of the Lightning kits as opposed to Lightning's installation skills...
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You might be surprised by the power of the 16v or 2.0. I think putting a heavy iron block motor in a Samurai ruins the car for anything but maybe mud and sand.
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thanks for the kind words about my scout . its been a work of love , thats for sure .
i believe the 1.6 is about 250lbs the 4.3 is about 400Lbs i believe, depending on what heads intake, and headers you run of course that can be less . i can tell you that 2 fellas one on each side of the 4.3 can lifta stock 4.3 it into and out of a truck
as to the trany , try advanced adaptors . if they don’t have a setup they most likely will tell you where to go to get one . on my scout , im actually running a bell housing with a Chevy pattern on one end , a ford pattern at the trany mated to my IHT18 .
i had to replace the input shaft because it was to small for the 4.3 .all of which is resting in a Toyota front bearing seal retainer did i say that my 800 had a 4 cylinder in it to start with ? i think i forgot that part .
my bet that if you lightened the 4.3 up with an aluminum intake , heads . Drop the water pump and add a set of stans headers and I bet you could cut the weight difference to around 100 lbs
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yea that has been my thought whenever somebody brings up the wieght issue, its a couple hundred pounds. does putting a passenger in ruin youre truck for anything but sand or mud?its the same weight difference, plus youre over quadrupeling the tourque ,the force that moves weight, i think its a bs argument, the part breakage is inevitable though im sure as far as the tranny id run a gm ,their a dime a dozen, and i looked at the lightening performance, i dont need that, i have a shop, tube benders, saws , tape measure, welder and alot of mistakes that ive learned from, i geuss i was more wanting peoples experiance with there swaps the 22r just seamed like a good one, my toyotas have always been durrable, seams like anything non suzuki is unpopular to some, a parts a part to me, dont care what it came from
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Basher
In all fairness to the Suzuki folks and the “ things not being Suzuki,� issue isn’t just something to do with Suzuki owners .
Back when I was in high school , I built a Model T . I dropped a Chevy engine in it. I did that for no given reason other then I had a 327 sitting in the shop on our farm .
You should have heard the complaints about me putting a chevy in a ford LMAO .
My scout was the same deal a lot of IH folks simply would not comment or even help because I wasn’t staying fully IH ..
don’t let this type of thing get you down . IMO take what those folks know and use it . No mater if you do an un like swap or a swap within someone’s set boundaries. In the end you own the rig . Its yours to do with as you like .
As to weight issues. I believe the 4 door sidekicks weigh in at well over 200lbs more then the two door . Yet do they not run the same 1.6 ,8 and 16V .?
The only difference I could see is a possible compression of your front end from the added 200 or so lbs as the weight isn’t distributed . this could be corrected however easily enough .
If your are jumping your rig though this could make a big difference. But I don’t know to many who jump while on the street . In fact at my age I don’t know any who jump LOL .
As to going through parts . This can be an issue . But a lot of times IMO that issue is really about driving habits or the applications of tier sizes well beyond the capability / design of the axels/ diff’s or trany themselves . My knowledge of how well the Suzuki trany’s and running gear are made or what they are capable of withstanding is limited to say the least . Im sure others here would know if those components are capable of withstanding the increases from the 4.3 .
But ,,,,, with any swap this can be a problem be it swapping out the engine or simple putting on bigger tiers .
I would also have to support what another said here about what the small 4 cylinders of today are capable of . I know the kids today seem to be getting a whole lot out of their engines . .
I guess for me , im stuck in the ages with our dated knowledge of the big displacement engines found in Dusters, GTO’s , Road Runners and the like . Muscle cars were what we wanted and that’s what we built our standers to . i can tell you there is nothing like the feeling of a 67 GTO Judge gettin bent . the rear end digging low as she leans into the throuttle and your thrown back into the seat . holding tight for all you have to the wheel as the front end lifts and twists . that was power and guys could tell if you had it or not just by the sound of your engine at idle .
whoooooooo still gives me goose bumps . 8)
anyway sorry , im way off track here .
Myself my zuk is going to stay somewhat stock . I bought it for everyday driving .
I already have a off road rig that suits me .
My point I guess is again , have fun with it , its your rig .
Just have the minds eye to do what ever you decide to do , safely ;)
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haha, i really need to get some pics up, not that my rig is so bad ass or anything, just the street driving thing made me smile, i dont think ive had it out of low range in 5 years, its all dents and glory,twisted steel and sex apeal, as far as springs im in the middle of a yj swap and frame stretch, i dont do much jumping anymore myself, at 35 my body doesnt like the landings, and i hear you on the muscle cars i have a old vette i like to abuse from time to time, theres no such thing as to much power, just how much you can afford to run