ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Zukipilot on September 28, 2004, 02:35:12 AM
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OK, I know this is a 4x4 web site, but hey, it's a 4x4 Suzuki ;D
My 98 X-90 has a Calmini 2" lift on it and larger than stock tires (Street tires). If I hang a corner at high speeds turning right it is stable, drifts evenly and is very confident handling. But, turning left in the same situation it feels like the front end wants to push out and feels unstable.
Any one have any idea of what would cause this. ???
All of my shocks and struts are good, new tires that are balanced have even air pressure and a recent alignment.
Zig
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you know, its funny you should bring this topic up. even though my reply might not have an inch of relevance, i'm going to put it out there anyway.
only just recently (past couple of weeks) i've noticed that when i drive off from a set of traffic lights when stationary, the front left of my vitara lifts first. its more so when medium acceleration is used rather than hard acceleration.
i've put it down to the direction the motor (crank) spins. i've read a few other articles on this similar topic, which mentions going up an acsent, such as a hill, and half way up there's an obstacle, if you go around on the right of the obstacle, the car is stable, but if you go left around the obstacle, the car has a tendancy to roll, or something like that. don't hold me to it though.
another place that i see it often, is in drag cars/street drag cars, which have a rotary engine in them. when they launch, its always the front left (i think) that lifts.
i've also experienced this on a motor bike, a BMW, which had a flat twin, (cylinders are parallel to the ground). so when i was sitting on it, and revved it, the bike wanted to tip over to one side.
so, maybe it's because of the direction the engine is spinning.
i don't know either, so if anyone has an answer, please let up know.
steve
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Is your antisway bar connected? Could one bushing on the antisway bar be binding, causing it to act asymetrically? With one bushing totaly bound, the antisway bar would act like two unequal rate torsion bars, resisting movement on one side more than the other.
Before I disconnected my antisway bar, both bushings on the frame were binding, which really affected the ride.
- Craig
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Maybe its because you weigh like 300 pounds and the poor little x-90 is just off balance.  ;D
(http://generationjones.com/gifs/seventy/fatal.gif) ÂÂ
When you are seated n the vehicle, how many inches higher is the passenger side (due to the additional weight in the drivers seat)?
(http://www.wallaceschool.co.uk/images/leaning%20car.jpg)
I think this may be the problem...
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I disconnected my anti sway bar because it fouled on the steering linkage preventing the (my) drivers side wheel from dropping fully. That may have something to do with it. Oh and its a long time since I saw that pic of the Vauxhall Chevette, I remember seeing him on TV, he used to drive a slalom course leaning out of the window and picking up coke cans. He held some world record for it  ::)
Suzuki SJ with LJ front end:
(http://www.rhinoman.org/images/images/stunt07.jpg)
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I think Skid is on the right track. The rotational force of the driveshaft wantts to pick up your right rear tire when you gass it. Thats why without a posi or locker its always the right rear that will spin first in a straight line. From what I hear the 2 inch kit is pretty supple in the rear which might let the axil twist more than stock. So when you turn right and gas it the right rear lifts and leans you into the turn making you more stable. When you turn left you and gass it leans you out.
thats my guess anyway
Patrick
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I think Skid and Ingersol are actually both right. Besides that... SLOW DOWN Dont you read Consumer reports! ::)
Mike
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Slow Down, Hell No! An X-90 is a blast to drive fast ;D To throw another kink in it. If I'm holding the vehicle at a neutral position (no accaleration or dceleration) it is squirly, at slight acceleration it feels more stable and at hard acceleration it gets squirley again :-/ I'll test it out again to see on the way home ;)
Is there any way to fix it where it will handle the same in each direction (left and right). Besides buying a Vette to replace the X-90 :P
Zig
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I have alot of experience making my race kart do 130 around tight corners, but never a tracker :P... it is a bit similar though, around corners my karts set up to lift the inside rear wheel to prevent drag and for the tires on the opposite side to bite.. being direct drive ( strait from crank to axle ) and a solid 35 mm tube axle this was very important, as u can imagine lol
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i can pick the left front tire of my moms GV off the ground when i make a left..is that what ur talking about? lol aside from the noise the tire makes when it hits the ground again u cant hardly tell =)
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Slow Down, Hell No! An X-90 is a blast to drive fast ;D To throw another kink in it. If I'm holding the vehicle at a neutral position (no accaleration or dceleration) it is squirly, at slight acceleration it feels more stable and at hard acceleration it gets squirley again :-/  I'll test it out again to see on the way home ;)
Is there any way to fix it where it will handle the same in each direction (left and right). Besides buying a Vette to replace the X-90 :P
Zig
Check your idler arm and tie-rod ends for excessive movement. I bet under load your front end is loose... :o and is going out of alignment.
-Eric
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the idler arm on jennys wore out and we drove all the way to gold river and back on it, it was sketchy, easy to fix though, it effects steering big time, if you hit any rut in the road the truck would want to follow it and shake all over
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(http://stuntdriver.com/dd18.jpg)
don't try this at home....
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Check your idler arm and tie-rod ends for excessive movement. I bet under load your front end is loose...  :o and is going out of alignment.
-Eric
I will ,thanks!
Zig
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the idler arm on jennys wore out and we drove all the way to gold river and back on it, it was sketchy, easy to fix though, it effects steering big time, if you hit any rut in the road the truck would want to follow it and shake all over
My X follows ruts in the road a little but not to bad, and no shakeing though.
Zig
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is it the same with and without passengers.
if you are driving .. LHD. then when you turn right you will have extra weight over the left wheels and more grip. turning left will be less grip due to less weight over the right hand wheels
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is it the same with and without passengers.
if you are driving .. LHD. then when you turn right you will have extra weight over the left wheels and more grip. turning left will be less grip due to less weight over the right hand wheels
It may be weight distrubtion, but it feels loose before you get to the point of loosing traction from the tires.
Zog
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Zog
Zog, eh? ;D
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My 98 X-90 has a Calmini 2" lift on it and larger than stock tires (Street tires). If I hang a corner at high speeds turning right it is stable, drifts evenly and is very confident handling. But, turning left in the same situation it feels like the front end wants to push out and feels unstable.
I'd assume it was stable before the 2" lift was added. The things I'd be looking at is that the lift is installed properly, and the tires. (The lift kit on the Bronco caused similar handling.)
You could try swapping the front wheels (temporarily) and see if that helps. If it's not a symetric tread, that can cause a prob similar to this. (i.e. a directional tread installed backwards.) Better, if you have some good street tires on a rig, try them out. That will focus you on whether it's tires or something else.
It could be something odd. The oddest (non-zuki) I ever saw was a broken motor mount... and on another a rear leaf spring's shackles loose. Did they do a 4-wheel alignment? If the rear end isn't square to the front, it can cause odd steering. (Not much you can do about this, unless it's something worn.)
...just a thought...
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Im betting on the idler arm. I had not thought of that. Call up Sky and get anouther one of those for the X90. ;)
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there is also a rubber bush on the front of the steering to the chassis rails ( not the idler arm)
i have replaced this twice on tonka-toy.
to check this jack just one front wheel off the floor and check for play in the steering linkage by twisting the tyre .
if the play is there it is very evident
thinking about it now this bush seems very probable.
it can be seperated from the steering likage one side by unbolting it .. the other side is a ball joint to the linkage .... probably just the rubber bushing very worn with the high mileage commute you do.
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I'd assume it was stable before the 2" lift was added. The things I'd be looking at is that the lift is installed properly, and the tires. (The lift kit on the Bronco caused similar handling.)
You could try swapping the front wheels (temporarily) and see if that helps. If it's not a symetric tread, that can cause a prob similar to this. (i.e. a directional tread installed backwards.) Better, if you have some good street tires on a rig, try them out. That will focus you on whether it's tires or something else.
It could be something odd. The oddest (non-zuki) I ever saw was a broken motor mount... and on another a rear leaf spring's shackles loose. Did they do a 4-wheel alignment? If the rear end isn't square to the front, it can cause odd steering. (Not much you can do about this, unless it's something worn.)
...just a thought...
I dont know about the lift because I it had bad tires on it when I bought it and I lifted it as soon as I bought some tires ;D Ive already checked the lift and everything is in good so that is not the problem either.
Zig
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Im betting on the idler arm. I had not thought of that. Call up Sky and get anouther one of those for the X90.  ;)
I've drfinately need to check that one. The idler on my Kick was off the 97 2WD that never saw dirt and you saw how bad off it is :P
Later,
Zig
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there is also a rubber bush on the front of the steering to the chassis rails ( not the idler arm)
i have replaced this twice on tonka-toy.
to check this jack just one front wheel off the floor and check for play in the steering linkage by twisting the tyre .
if the play is there it is very evident
thinking about it now this bush seems very probable.
it can be seperated from the steering likage one side by unbolting it .. the other side is a ball joint to the linkage .... probably just the rubber bushing very worn with the high mileage commute you do.
I'll check it out
Thanks,
Zig
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I dont know about the lift because I it had bad tires on it when I bought it and I lifted it as soon as I bought some tires ;D Ive already checked the lift and everything is in good so that is not the problem either.
Zig
Makes sense. I mention tires because mine did similar w/ the original tires... and drove like it was on snow every time it rained. A change of tires (and air pressure) made all the difference. (Before I had to take corners slowly.)
If you can't afford (oversized) street tires for "race" driving, maybe try changing air pressure up and down a few pounds. 2-5 lbs makes a big difference. ::)