ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: explosivo on September 26, 2004, 08:57:46 AM
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Well, not so much deep thinking as just pondering the issue of CV shafts in relation to A-arms.
My main question is do the CV's and the A-arms have to line up to flex well? I was thinking a longer A-arm would give more leverage which translates to more flex, but I didn't know if I'd need to have a special differential made up for it... here's a pic:
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus.gif)
What do you think? Would the center picture work, or would it have to be set up like the last picture?
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Nice drawings! If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me, but my understanding is as follows:
With Figure 2 you'd run into problems with the different radii of the cv shafts and the longer arms. As the arm swings up from where it is now, the outside ends of the cv shafts will move further out horizontally than the hub carrier on the arm will move. Ideally, the center points of the cv shafts should be oriented within the same vertical axis. The cv cups can eat up a little bit of this difference, but I don't think enough.
So, Figures 1 and 3 work because the radii of the arms and shafts are nearly the same, so the movement in the horizontal axis is nearly the same, with no risk of the risk of bottoming out in the inside of the cups, or pulling the cage out of the cup (for non-extreme angles).
- Craig
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What I propose doing is to use the stock
arm pivot points, and lengthen the A-arms
out further, then eliminate the CV Cups with
a slip shaft instead
Zig and I PM'ed about this, it's going to happen,
I just don't have the time and $$ to do it right
now, I need some equipment too, I figure the
CV shafts could be lengthened and make the front
sit about 2-3 " higher and keep the CVs at the same
angle
Wild
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Im pretty sure the middle one would be fine.
If you add more flex you need to add it upward only. If you go much further down it causes the drag link and idler arm to bend under load. I used to play with struts from a w body gm with over 8 inches of travel in the shaft (12 or 13 inches at the wheel) and thats what kind of trouble I would have. I would just add a pair of OME struts to it. A while back I came to the conclusion that rather than more flex I wanted even flex, meaning that if I drive up an RTI ramp the front and rear should max out at the same time. I played with moving weight on the vehicle and widening the front end (causes the front to flex easier) to get that even flex.
Im not trying to say not to do it just a heads up on my past travels down a similar road.
BTW are you locked in the front. Rear?
Mike
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Mike, there's only one thing wrong with his pics.............where's the wings? :P
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Im pretty sure the middle one would be fine.
If you add more flex you need to add it upward only. If you go much further down it causes the drag link and idler arm to bend under load. I used to play with struts from a w body gm with over 8 inches of travel in the shaft (12 or 13 inches at the wheel) and thats what kind of trouble I would have. I would just add a pair of OME struts to it. A while back I came to the conclusion that rather than more flex I wanted even flex, meaning that if I drive up an RTI ramp the front and rear should max out at the same time. I played with moving weight on the vehicle and widening the front end (causes the front to flex easier) to get that even flex.
Im not trying to say not to do it just a heads up on my past travels down a similar road.
BTW are you locked in the front. Rear?
Mike
Thanks for the input... I'll have to add that all up with my thoughts on the matter to try and work something out... I have two years to do that, though ;)
So, was the front end widening mod just for a little easier flex, or was it a combiniation of things (moving the front wheels forward, getting in different CV shafts, etc)?
Also, while on the subject of IFS, when you do Exploder CV's, do you have to do the front end widening mod for them to fit, or will they fit stock and need spacers after the widening?
Also, I'm not locked yet... that'll come when I get an anvil/SFA... depending on where things go from now ;)
Wild: A slipyoke shaft would be freaking awesome on a CV shaft... would a Sammy driveshaft's telescoping portion fit in the CV area, or is that even too big? Also, how much do Sammy rear DS's go for used these days?
EDIT: Now here's an idea for a small diff-drop to go along with everything to get better CV angles...
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus.2b.gif)
I would imagine that a small (1-2") differential crossmember drop would help out immensly with CV angles, plus steering could be corrected by simply placing the tierods on top of the knuckle instead of below to keep everything lined up and eliminate bump steer... I would think, at least.
This diff drop would be accompanied by a 1-2" a-arm drop with custom brackets (made to be a couple inches wider) and 2" spring spacers to add a bit of lift.
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Here's a pic of everything all spaced out (added in a line at each for a point of reference):
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus3c.gif)
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I like the drawing, so I hacked it and
used it, I've been meaning to make a
drawing like this on, so Thanks, it saved
me a lot of time in the drafting department
So here is my take on the hack job I want
to do
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/Wide-IFS.gif)
I think a Sammy DS might be close enough
to use, that was where I was going to start.
Wild
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Mike, there's only one thing wrong with his pics.............where's the wings?  :P
Holy Poop ;) Look who showed back up ;D Where you been ???
Zig
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Zig and I PM'ed  about this, it's going to happen,
I just don't have the time and $$ to do it right
now, I need some equipment too, I figure the
CV shafts could be lengthened and make the front
sit about 2-3 " higher and keep the CVs at the same
angle
Wild
No PM :'( But I have my CV problems fixed now 8) ;D :o Still let ma know what you have up your sleeve ;)
Zig
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I like the drawing, so I hacked it and
used it, I've been meaning to make a
drawing like this on, so Thanks, it saved
me a lot of time in the drafting department
So here is my take on the hack job I want
to do
([url]http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/Wide-IFS.gif[/url])
I think a Sammy DS might be close enough
to use, that was where I was going to start.
Wild
:o won't that widen the front end out like 1.5'? Is that how much everything needs to be extended to get the slip yokes to fit in?
Do ya have any figures on how long the slip portion of the Sammy DS is? How much travel does it have?
You're using stock arms still, correct? If you were to extend them out, couldn't you make some sort of 'bend' to drop the arms down a bit, or would you be fabbing up entirely new arms altogether?
Also, I don't have a winch on the front of my vehicle or a very heavy bumper, so would going with a lower spring rate in the front even out the flex? The Calmini springs feel rock hard under my rig. :-/
I am going into a drafting and design program shortly at ITT Tech, I guess I should actually start using some drafting software instead of Photoshop ;)
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Mike:
Your modified front end is about 5" of lift altogether, correct? What are you doing as far as your struts are concerned? Are you still using the Calmini spacers w/ flipped mounts and OME struts, or do you have custom spacers?
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:o won't that widen the front end out like 1.5'? Is that how much everything needs to be extended to get the slip yokes to fit in?
Do ya have any figures on how long the slip portion of the Sammy DS is? How much travel does it have?
You're using stock arms still, correct? If you were to extend them out, couldn't you make some sort of 'bend' to drop the arms down a bit, or would you be fabbing up entirely new arms altogether?
Also, I don't have a winch on the front of my vehicle or a very heavy bumper, so would going with a lower spring rate in the front even out the flex? The Calmini springs feel rock hard under my rig. :-/
I am going into a drafting and design program shortly at ITT Tech, I guess I should actually start using some drafting software instead of Photoshop ;)
Yes I want to widen the front 3-4", I'm not
sure how much room I'm going to need, but I
know the stock CV shafts can't go as wide as
I want, so I have to fab something to fit the
application.
Sammy DS has about 4-5" of slip total, 3" is
usable, I don't know if it's enough, I think it
will be, the stock CV cup is only 2" and I don't
think the difference in the new A-arms is going
to change the CV shaft movment distance much
if any at all.
I will bend the arms some, but the shafts need
to be protected from offroad obsticles and such,
so only slightly curved.
If you get wider wheels or a wide track the spring
rate will soften, I figure I need a 700 PSI spring
for this A-arm mod so your Calmini springs should
feel better once you go wider
Wild
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Yes I want to widen the front 3-4", I'm not
sure how much room I'm going to need, but I
know the stock CV shafts can't go as wide as
I want, so I have to fab something to fit the
application.
Sammy DS has about 4-5" of slip total, 3" is
usable, I don't know if it's enough, I think it
will be, the stock CV cup is only 2" and I don't
think the difference in the new A-arms is going
to change the CV shaft movment distance much
if any at all.
That sounds neat... be sure to post lots of pics for me to copy when I go to work on mine ;)
I will bend the arms some, but the shafts need
to be protected from offroad obsticles and such,
so only slightly curved.
What about just making skids on the arms? Here's a pic of one of my ideas for a custom A-Arm:
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus.4a.gif)
and a quick animation I did for the hell of it:
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifs.anim.1a.gif)
;)
If you get wider wheels or a wide track the spring
rate will soften, I figure I need a 700 PSI spring
for this A-arm mod so your Calmini springs should
feel better once you go wider
Wider than 33x13.50's on 15x10's? :o
We'll see how the Calmini spring does once I do some of these ideas to my rig ;)
A few more questions:
First, what is the spring rate of the Calmini 3" front spring?
Also, what vehicles have CV joints that can flex alot and are readily available in scrapyards and junkers?
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Mike:
Your modified front end is about 5" of lift altogether, correct? What are you doing as far as your struts are concerned? Are you still using the Calmini spacers w/ flipped mounts and OME struts, or do you have custom spacers?
I also have a 1 inch spacer. One other thing to keep in mind is the tie rods need to be flipped to the top to retain steering geometry. You will need to taper the holes.
Mike
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I also have a 1 inch spacer. One other thing to keep in mind is the tie rods need to be flipped to the top to retain steering geometry. You will need to taper the holes.
Mike
So you have essentially 3 inches of strut spacing + the flipped mount?
Already know about the tie-rods... I think I read about it from one of the discussions you posted in, actually ;) That's why I only want to do a 1-2" diff/a-arm drop. :)
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I struggled alot with the firm ride that the calmini kit had when it was new. I went from a center spaced 15x8 32" tire to a 33x12.5 tire on a 15x10 wheel with a little heavier back spacing. I don't remember what it was and the springs still felt stiff.
Through a little experimenting we noticed that the alignment had alot to do with the vehicle ride. If the tires where toed in at all it caused the front end to pinch and be firm. slightly toed out and the ride was softer. Of course this is a fine line because you don't want the tires to scrub all the tread off. I guess the point is to check your alignment. Overall I just flexed the crap out of those springs to the point that they actually lost a bit of lift. I added a calmini bumper and a 9000lb winch to help things out a bit. Calmini builds the 3 inch suspension kit with the intention that you will be running all the accessories, winch, bumper, skids, etc etc. basically the more you flex it and the more weight you add the softer it will feel. I used to park my zuk with one tire up on something to flex the springs as much as possible.
Patience is key here it will soften up and perform. I didn't really understand the term flex the crap out of it until I saw hagan and chunk flying past my passenger side window about 3 feet in the air on the poison spider mesa trail in MOAB. After that I had a new understanding!
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Screw adding weight to the front... first off: I'm cheap, and can't afford all those high-falutin' accessories, and second, I'd rather do things super-lightweight. This is where some custom front suspension work comes into play. Plus, adding weight will make it ride smoother, but I want more FLEX (even though I don't need it under the terrain I normally drive ;))
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Lookslike Hagen isn't giving up his flying secrets! Shame on you Mike! ;D
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Lookslike Hagen isn't giving up his flying secrets! Shame on you Mike! ;D
I know, it's making me angry! >:(
:P
Hey, have you gotten anything worked out with your rig yet?
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Holy Poop ;) Look who showed back up ;D Where you been ???
Zig
Still around. SPent a week in FL for 'cane Frances, then worried sick about that bitch Jeanne as she slammed mom and dad..........again! Not much of a vacation but they are doing ok, hooking into neighbor generator for some low key A/C.
Rig is still going. Not much progress in working with Zuke in getting a resolution. DM does not return calls, Brea does not respond to correspondence. Meanwhile, I'm trying to find time to drain and flush the cooling sys. Just too damn busy to find time. I now run 93 octane to keep the hamster quiet. Expensive, but so is a motor. In the process of sending zuke a 4th letter about my problem. I think they're just hoping I go away or something. Oh well.
This December, dad is going to teach me to make sausage gravy with milk. Next year, I hope to make it to the melt! I need to get some "air time" and get frequent flyer miles on Hagen Air. That's the ONLY condition for me to be there......he's gotta be there too!
ZIg you can come to IF you can scare up half a hickory smoked ham, Tennessee style. Not a needled fake smoke but a real smoker. I will trade suds for ham. Deal?
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Ham for suds :-/ Hell Yea it's a deal ;D
Zig
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Does anyone have access to a inner cv from a Liberty, I was under one the other day and they appear to have a very long inner cv bucket and beefy axles. Might be a possible donor if someone could find out how deep the bucket is inside.
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Lookslike Hagen isn't giving up his flying secrets! Shame on you Mike! ;D
Secret? ::)
ITS ALL ABOUT THE SHINNY PEDAL And not letting up till the rear tires are off the ground. Another tip, only jump in 2wd, you get better front lift.
Mike
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Screw adding weight to the front... first off: I'm cheap, and can't afford all those high-falutin' accessories, and second, I'd rather do things super-lightweight. This is where some custom front suspension work comes into play. Plus, adding weight will make it ride smoother, but I want more FLEX (even though I don't need it under the terrain I normally drive ;))
I agree, dont add weight just to ride smoother. If the rig is topped out cut a little off the coil to lower it. if it sits to low add a small spacer to lift it. Another thing I think is a worth wile addition is limmiting straps to the front. My straps get tight about 1 inch before the end of the struts travel. it will strech too full travel. What this does is slow the downward travel so it doesnt bottom out so hard and smooths out the ride. I cant hardly feel when the front tires come off the ground. Also I pushed a pinion bushing over the strut so when the strut colapses the rubber bushing slows it down and softens the blow. You loose a little flex but now you can pound it so much harder and it takes it without knocking out your teeth.
Mike
Mike
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I agree, dont add weight just to ride smoother. If the rig is topped out cut a little off the coil to lower it. if it sits to low add a small spacer to lift it. Another thing I think is a worth wile addition is limmiting straps to the front. My straps get tight about 1 inch before the end of the struts travel. it will strech too full travel. What this does is slow the downward travel so it doesnt bottom out so hard and smooths out the ride. I cant hardly feel when the front tires come off the ground. Also I pushed a pinion bushing over the strut so when the strut colapses the rubber bushing slows it down and softens the blow. You loose a little flex but now you can pound it so much harder and it takes it without knocking out your teeth.
Mike
Mike
Where'd you get your straps from? I'll have to try some of that stuff out once I get it widened and all the structural things figured out first... the bone-jarring ride is one of my dislikes about my 'kick right now :-/
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Very interestig post  :)
 Explosive I like the pic #2,  Looks alot like my 4-door lift.  Strut spacers and drop the crossmembers and axle.
(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus3c.gif)[/quote]
Instead of just flipping the tie rods I believe you can also run the Cal-Mini dropped pitman arm and drop the Reinforced idler to match, thus gaining about 4".  BUT I still need to measure the Cal-Mini Kick dropped Pit man Arm to be sure.
I agree with Mike EVEN flex is the Key over more flex.  I'm hopping that the bumper and winch will help to make my front move a little more, I'm also looking into firmer Jeep +2" spings for the rear in an effort to make the flex even. ÂÂ
I have not looked into building a stronger front end yet, So for now I have designed around the CV angles and am working to avoid operation at full droop where they become vonerable.  I'm looking into limit straps as a Temporary band aid to help if weak CV's become a problem. ÂÂ
I believe they way to more travel is thru the centered diff and Longer A-arms. Any other arm configuration off of the stock mounts is still bound by the CV legnth/angle/steering. Longer arms and a centered diff are the easiest way to free up the numbers in teh travel equation. The the BAJA race trucks are a good example of this.
Lots of gears spinning in my head,  Hope to add more later.
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Very interestig post :)
Explosive I like the pic #2, Looks alot like my 4-door lift. Strut spacers and drop the crossmembers and axle.
([url]http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/ifsillus3c.gif[/url])Instead of just flipping the tie rods I believe you can also run the Cal-Mini dropped pitman arm and drop the Reinforced idler to match, thus gaining about 4". BUT I still need to measure the Cal-Mini Kick dropped Pit man Arm to be sure.
I agree with Mike EVEN flex is the Key over more flex. I'm hopping that the bumper and winch will help to make my front move a little more, I'm also looking into firmer Jeep +2" spings for the rear in an effort to make the flex even.
I have not looked into building a stronger front end yet, So for now I have designed around the CV angles and am working to avoid operation at full droop where they become vonerable. I'm looking into limit straps as a Temporary band aid to help if weak CV's become a problem.
I believe they way to more travel is thru teh centered diff and Longer A-arms. Any other arm configuration off of the stock mounts is still bound by the CV legnth/angle/steering. Longer arms and a centered diff are the easiest way to free up the numbers in teh travel equation. The the BAJA race trucks are a good example of this.
Lots of gears spinning in my head, Hope to add more later.
Second pic is very similar to your lift ;) I just decided that if I do drop the front components, I just want to do it enough to get some added lift/better CV angles, but not any more than flipping the tierods could handle, since if I retain IFS, it'll most likely still be a road-worthy vehicle... no monkeying with suspension unless it's a trail-rig only ;D
But just so that you guys know, most of my ideas are a direct effect of watching yours/Mazolla's buildup as well as studying Mike's and Wild's rigs, then combining components of each ;)
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, eh? ;D
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I have not looked into building a stronger front end yet, So for now I have designed around the CV angles and am working to avoid operation at full droop where they become vonerable. I'm looking into limit straps as a Temporary band aid to help if weak CV's become a problem.
I believe they way to more travel is thru the centered diff and Longer A-arms. Any other arm configuration off of the stock mounts is still bound by the CV legnth/angle/steering. Longer arms and a centered diff are the easiest way to free up the numbers in teh travel equation. The the BAJA race trucks are a good example of this.
CV angles are something that's troubling me... I think it's due to having the Calmini 3" lift with little extra weight in the front :-/
Centered diff + long arms would be my preferred way of doing things, since it would be damn cool to have a nice, flexxy rig that could handle some hardcore jumping without breakage ;). Unfortunately this brings about entirely new problems with getting a centered diff built, making long CV shafts, and working out a steering solution. But all in all, it'd be the coolest way of doing things.
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Steering is the only thing keeping me off of teh road.  Once i can swing the cash for the Cal mini dropped pitman arm I'll be road worthy again. ÂÂ
I couldn't stand it and had to order these  :-/  I'm excited about them but the plactic will be put away until it's paid off.  It was a hard decision, gears or steering,  BUT  The TT 4.25:1's will help more off road than just about any other single mod. ÂÂ
This ought to help break somthing.
(http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/whitfimb/P9280713.JPG)
Now if I can just get it installed in time. Fall Zuwharrie is in 10 Days.
And while borrowing the wifes camera I found an awsome pic from the 4th of July Beach Trip.
(http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/whitfimb/fireworks.jpg)
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I'll have to see how you do your steering... like I've said before, this is all info gathering... the work will get started in a couple years (sooner if I find a place with a garage/get some extra cash).
And yeah, I imagine gearing would help out a lot more than steering would offroad. :)
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Has anyone thought that the cv operates in a spherical environment and if droop is the limitation one way for the inner cv (it'll be different for the outer cv), is it possible to get enough flex to be too excessive during compression to have the inner cv bind?
Just as adding a spacer to the strut to get better droop travel with better compression travel (basically lowering the static location of the strut), why not think the same for the cv.
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??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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1. Has anyone thought that the cv operates in a spherical environment and if droop is the limitation one way for the inner cv (it'll be different for the outer cv),
2. Is it possible to get enough flex to be too excessive during compression to have the inner cv bind?
3. Just as adding a spacer to the strut to get better droop travel with better compression travel (basically lowering the static location of the strut), why not think the same for the cv.
1. Yes they mirror one another thru the suspension travel. They are weaker at the extreem angles. My only extreem angle is at full droop.
2. Yes it is possiable to modify the CV's for flex and arm travel (Longer) so that they will not pull out, thus be stronger at full droop. This could cause them to bind at compression to shaft horizontal (the Cv's shortest legnth).
3. Dropping the axle would minimize the Droop bind if their were no increase in over all travel.
Basically I have tried to maintain the stock CV and steering Geometry while increasing tire size and ride height. Keeping it simple for now.
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I'm stalled on experimenting with mine at the moment as I have hurt my back (again). If the front Calmini springs are too stiff then can't you source softer springs, cutting them down will only make them stiffer. Surely fitting softer springs is a lot easier than all the work involved in widening the front to get more leverage. I will try the calmini springs on mine but I suspect I will stick with my existing +2" springs to keep the flex.
I measured up the travel in my CVs, there is around 1/2" of 'spare' movement with the driveshaft straight. It only goes straight just before it hits the bumpstop (edit - stock A-arms and axle mounts) so there is lots of potential travel to gain if you drop the diff further but you will be sacrificing ground clearance.
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But won't softer springs that are as high as the calmini ones make the front sit lower than you want??? if you lift a vehicle you probably want to put larger tires under it and get more travel downwards at least... so if you use the same spring rate as standard (wich is higher in front as in the back) you'll get lift but no extra travel.... I think. And if you use softer springs with more wraps to add the height, you wont get extra travel either because of the extra wraps....
So an option might be finding springs for front and back that will make the flex even.... I think.
But I might be wrong... I'm just using my experience (what experience ???) ;D
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But won't softer springs that are as high as the calmini ones make the front sit lower than you want??? if you lift a vehicle you probably want to put larger tires under it and get more travel downwards at least... so if you use the same spring rate as standard (wich is higher in front as in the back) you'll get lift but no extra travel.... I think. And if you use softer springs with more wraps to add the height, you wont get extra travel either because of the extra wraps....
So an option might be finding springs for front and back that will make the flex even.... I think.
But I might be wrong... I'm just using my experience (what experience ???) ;D
Downward travel isn't really what I need... I'm driving around at just above full droop because of how light I have my kick, and the fact that the Calmini springs are set up to have a couple hundred pounds of crap up front. So, I figure that if widening the front end out (adding leverage) doesn't help with flex/ride quality, then I'll just find some slightly lower spring rate springs... not to the point that I'm riding around on the bump stops all the time and have a ton of downtravel, but enough to have a nice ride with decent amounts of up and down travel from where the arms are at with weight on them. If ya know what I'm saying ;D
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so there is lots of potential travel to gain if you drop the diff further but you will be sacrificing ground clearance.
I keep hearing this same question and I think that dropping the diff is the correct answer...
As long as you are:
1. gaining lift over stock height
2. more usable travel
3. better CV reliability
I think it is the right answer. I've dropped my diff 4", and still have 11.5 " of clearance and the diff still sits higher then the cross member.
(http://photos.zuwharrie.com/users/whitfimb/P1011248.JPG)
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Now take the diff and drop it more, say another 1-1.5". Build a cradle which ties the diff to your drop subframe, which is tied to the frame itself. You'll be saving on the torsional as well as lateral forces as the cradle will disseminate the force not only into 1-2 points of the frame, but at all mounting locations.
Sort of the idea of a long travel TJ suspension where the arm mounts is the belly pan and crossmember.
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I was thinking along those lines but with a centered Toyota 3rd and long A-arms w matching long Yota cv's that mount in the center like a Trophy truck.
But I'm no where near making that happen, Just dreaming,
I understand your point. Securing the diff instead of the 3 points on the diff / housing might reduce stress on the front, But some movement absorbs the extra forsces of shock load.
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After spending a bit of time under the Bronco, it's made me wonder why not just cut the D44 third out of the TTB setup and use it in a 'true' IFS setup? It'd be essentially just the pig with CV's coming out of it... meaning that you could have ~2ft long shafts :).
Can this be made to work without modifying the third member off the Bronco too much?
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Sounds alot like the centered 9" that is running the 37's. This leave the door wide open for custom longer A-arms and more travel / flex.
It would be awsome, BUT it is a big job to engineer it all into place safely under the kick. You'd be engineering & building the IFS front end. Not quite from scratch, but most of the same engineering hurdles would apply.
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Sounds alot like the centered 9" that is running the 37's. This leave the door wide open for custom longer A-arms and more travel / flex.
It would be awsome, BUT it is a big job to engineer it all into place safely under the kick. You'd be engineering & building the IFS front end. Not quite from scratch, but most of the same engineering hurdles would apply.
All it takes is getting everything lined up properly, right? ;D
I was just wondering that, because of all this centered diff talk. It seemed to be the easiest way to get a centered diff without chopping up a straight axle... plus they can be found pretty cheap with everyone moving from TTB to SFA.
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Along the same line I was considering A Mercedes or Jaguar rear end. Both are center mounted diffs with CV's the jag has the breaks on the inside (less unsprung weight) I think the Jag might be a dana unit but Im not sure about the Mercedes. I have no idea about gearing options.
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Along the same line I was considering A Mercedes or Jaguar rear end.  Both are center mounted diffs with CV's the jag has the breaks on the inside (less unsprung weight)  I think the Jag might be a dana unit but Im not sure about the Mercedes.  I have no idea about gearing options.
The Ford's 8.8 is a well-supported axle housing in the locker and gear department. Gears are deep as 5.38's. To add, there are independent 8.8 in the rear axle applications. Check out the Lincoln's w/ ind. rear axles. (Do a search on Ebay and see what I'm talking about.) This would probably be a better idea. To add, H1 Hummers uses AMC20 axle housings.
I do have a TTB swing arm, along with ARB and 4.56's in my TTBD44 that I've pulled from my Bronco for a SAS. I can shoot some pics on the mounting. In using such, you wouldn't need a cv at the housing end, a simple joint would work fine as the travel angle is not great enough. Then the steering joint can be a joint also and thus would eliminate the cv joint all together. Get a set of spline axles like the TTB has on the passenger side, as a spring in the splip to keep pressure of the inner axle to stay in the housing and you got a decent idea.
Military M151 'Mutt' used this concept of u-joint axles on IFS in both front and rear axles. The shaft was fixed length and the axles were full time 4wd applications.
This vehicle was a larger version of the Marine Mighty Mite which was air-cooled, near 1500#'s due to the aluminum body. The Mutt's weight is near 2000#'s.
FWIW, Currie uses the 8.8 gears for their reverse cut 9" housings.
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The Ford's 8.8 is a well-supported axle housing in the locker and gear department. Gears are deep as 5.38's. To add, there are independent 8.8 in the rear axle applications. Check out the Lincoln's w/ ind. rear axles. (Do a search on Ebay and see what I'm talking about.) This would probably be a better idea. To add, H1 Hummers uses AMC20 axle housings.
I do have a TTB swing arm, along with ARB and 4.56's in my TTBD44 that I've pulled from my Bronco for a SAS. I can shoot some pics on the mounting. In using such, you wouldn't need a cv at the housing end, a simple joint would work fine as the travel angle is not great enough. Then the steering joint can be a joint also and thus would eliminate the cv joint all together. Get a set of spline axles like the TTB has on the passenger side, as a spring in the splip to keep pressure of the inner axle to stay in the housing and you got a decent idea.
Military M151 'Mutt' used this concept of u-joint axles on IFS in both front and rear axles. The shaft was fixed length and the axles were full time 4wd applications.
This vehicle was a larger version of the Marine Mighty Mite which was air-cooled, near 1500#'s due to the aluminum body. The Mutt's weight is near 2000#'s.
FWIW, Currie uses the 8.8 gears for their reverse cut 9" housings.
A U-joint would have enough range of motion for the outer part with steering and all?
Ford 9" rear ends can go up to 6.50 gearing, from what I hear ;). I personally would want something more than 5.38's if I were to use a 9" and D44TTB setup, since I'd probably be able to go larger tires... something like 5.83's and dual t-cases with 38's ;)
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Ford 9" rear ends can go up to 6.50 gearing,
try 9.00. got crawl ratio? ;D
stu
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try 9.00. got crawl ratio? ;D
stu
Whateva, still lower than 8.8" rears ;D
BTW, send me a 9" rear from an early bronco, please ;D
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we have have tons of 3rds and truck 9's but not many early bronco 9's. :-/ got to keep spare parts you know.
stu
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we have have tons of 3rds and truck 9's but not many early bronco 9's. :-/ got to keep spare parts you know.
stu
Yeah, I know... I'll just do something crazy, like use the full width 9" from my truck on my tracker with the IFS at normal track-width ;D
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A U-joint would have enough range of motion for the outer part with steering and all?
.....snip.....
Here is a slip shaft for part of the axle shaft for a M151. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10076&item=2490498875&rd=1
http://members.aol.com/muttguru/page9.html
And a nice picture of the rear suspension, arm length, and axle shafts with u-joints. http://members.aol.com/muttguru/page13.html
BTW, the diffs were centered both front and rear.
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I bet those are pretty hard to come across, though :-/