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ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: olija on September 07, 2008, 12:03:11 AM
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Hi guys
I'm not new to the Suzuki thing but I don't know a huge amount about these new fangled ones (Vitara and Grand Vitara V6). I'm pretty sure I read that Sidekick 5.125 diffs will bolt in directly...sounds like the hot ticket for running 31's.
Next major important question is, I have 4.24:1 t-case gears in my Sidekick already. Is it possible to swap the entire transfer case from my Kick into a Vitara or Grand Vitara? Or do I have to pull the gears and install them in the Vitara/GV case? I also understand that manual transmission models will not accept the transfer case gears. Rather disappointing. Is anyone running 31" tires with 5.13's and wheeling some pretty rugged terrain? I want to know if it's going to suck as much as my Kick before I got my crawler gears, because I don't want to have to deal with that again.
Oh yeah, does anyone know if I can fit a 15" rim over the brakes? That'd be nice.
What is the better buy anyway? The V6 GV or the 2.0L Vitara? I heard the V6 is a little on the thirsty side.
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96 - 98 thirds with 5.12 should be direct bolt ins.
15" rims will not work unless you are willing to grind down your calipers on the 4door model, if you go 2.0 2dr they will fit(same as 2dr tracker)
as for your tcase gears i have no idea.
i run 31's with 4.62's (stock) gears and like to beat mine every now and then, when it's extremely rocky i wish i had lower gears, but not so far that i'm thinking tcase gears, just the 5.12's
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V6 vs 2.0 the v6 has alot more bottom end grunt.
You can put 15" wheels on the GV you will need 1" wheel spacers and some slight grinidng on the calipers.
The Gv has a wider stance has way better road manners then the non GV.
I did the exact same lift on a vitara with a 2.0L and the difference is soo noticeable. More power for one. Gas millage was hard to see the difference. BUt road handing on the GV is wayyyy better hence has a wider stance then the vitara.
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good point about 15's and a wheel spacer.. but i cannot agree that the gv is wider in any way in stock form the the regular vitara, longer but not wider.
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good point about 15's and a wheel spacer.. but i cannot agree that the gv is wider in any way in stock form the the regular vitara, longer but not wider.
Check the specs...
SWB:
Wheelbase 86.6 in.
Tread Width
Front 57.5 in.
Rear 57.5 in.
LWB:
Wheelbase 97.6 in. (2480 mm)
Tread Width
Front 59.1 in. (1500 mm)
Rear 59.1 in. (1500 mm)
I'm not sure it isn't just wheel widths, though. I recall the ZR-2 sales paraphernalia mentioned it had a wider track than the others, but there aren't any mechanical differences; just options, graphics, skid plates, and wheels.
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Think about iy lol 2" fender flares on the GV per side tires are about 1" from lip. Trackers are .75 inch from steel fender. hense the wider track.
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well shiezer, really now.. probably just the wheels cause everything as far as i knew was the same. the zr2 wheels are i believe 1/2inch wider than the regular tracker wheels..
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So the general consensus is to go with the GV then? There are some real nice looking ones out there and they really aren't all that expensive!
Basically, I'm looking for something with the same/better road manners as my bushpig of a Sidekick, and the same/better off road credentials as well. I have a Detroit in my Kick so I'm thinking that would be a pretty badass setup with some 31" tires, 3" suspension lift and 2" body. I take it you still need to trim the fenders quite hard with this setup?
I'm mainly worried about not being able to crawl with 31's. On my Kick going from small tires to 31's was just brutal on the rocks and I don't want to put a newer vehicle through that kind of abuse if I don't have to. Anyone running 31's with a 5 speed and actually WHEELING these things? I need some more opinions!
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haha, actually wheeling..... i've asked the same thing here before... i run 31's with the 5spd, 2.0L, 4.62's and on the rocks i wouldn't mind a lower gear, but how much real rock crawling do we do with these rigs... not a whole lot. i'm planning on going 5.12's and not touching the tcase, hopefully that will help things out.. in nasty mud pits i can often not hold 2nd gear in 4lo cause there just isn't enough power to keep things turning well. remember if you buy a gv it's gonna be a lot longer and not as good in the trails as your sidekick due to length. the fender wells are also full of more crap plastic. i didn't trim anything to fit 31inch swampers on stock wheels, 2in body lift and 2in front suspension lift but more like 3in suspension lift in back, was getting rub at highway speeds on the front of the rear fender.
should mention based on your post that when my brother drove my tracker he could not believe how much more comfortable, quiet and powerful it was compared to his early 90's kick..
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Woohoo! Just read on Calmini's website that the 4.24 t-case gears actually DO fit in all the non-V6 5 speed Zooks! I'm just planning my setup here, tell me what you think:
1999-2004 Vitara/Tracker 2.0L 5 speed
Calmini 2.5" suspension lift
Sky's 2" body lift
31x10.50 tires on wider/more backspaced rims
Calmini or TrailTough 4.24:1 t-case gears
Detroit Locker rear diff with 5.13 ratio out of my Sidekick
5.13 front diff out of another Sidekick....should I just put the whole third member in or get the gears swapped? It's unclear whether the 2.0L Vitaras have a steel front diff or not.
Custom rock sliders and skidplates, possibly bumpers
Manual locking hubs...do Sidekick ones just bolt right on?
First off, do I even need the 5.13 diffs? Or are the 2.0's all right on the road with 31's? If it's anything like my Kick is now with 31's I'd be more than happy to throw some diff gears in, cause this thing is pretty sluggish.
Any other suggestions/insights greatly appreciated!
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should work great, since you will be using wider rims with more backspacking you will most likely need a small trim in the front fenders.. on the road there are really no problems, i use 4th on hills or into strong headwinds, otherwise everything is fine, probably still better than the 1.6's in stock form. chances are you'll end up with the aluminum diff.. hubs are bolt on swaps.. it seems that companies have a hard time confirming if any lockers will actually fit for sure so from my understaning most guys swap the thirds in to get a locker out back, 96-98 thirds are direct bolt on, older thirds require some minor mods, not sure what but am told not a big deal. i'm not locked and wish i was so since you've got the parts put em in and enjoy!
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I have a 01 2.0L Vitara the front diff is aluminum. I'm riding stock gears with 225/75/16's (29.4") and it rides just fine of course lost a few MPG's and the speedo/odo is off by about 10% but it does fine I just drove it cross country. No advise on wide 31's.. but after I wear out my tires im planning on going about the same route.
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So far this is sounding pretty promising...another important question...
You say 96-98 Sidekick third members are a direct bolt-in...I'm a little confused right now because the Detroit Locker I have in my 97 Kick was originally installed in a 1993 Kick...but it bolted right into my 1997 no problems...so what does this mean? Is it going to bolt into the Vitara or not???
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i believe the sidegears are different pre 96, something to do with the spline count on the axles if i recall correctly... otherwise bolt on. my best suggestion is search around the site as i cannot recall the specific details right now..
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That doesn't make sense though. The locked third in my truck is from a 1993 and mine is 1997. So according to this information, I shouldn't have been able to install that locker. But it's in, and it has been in since March 08. Now I am REALLY curious as to whether it will work in a 1999-2001 Vitara.
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that is interesting, maybe the info i received in the past when looking into this was skewed, leaving me improperly informed.... i know there's some guru's on this board that can tell you the real deal but i cannot confirm this as i never bothered to regear once i figured out how much it was gonna cost me. maybe have a look around zuwharrie and zookpower if you're not finding the info here...
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If the spline count ends up being different, just swap out the side gears. However, I thought the spline change was only in the front end, 22 spline to 26 spline....
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A guy on zuwharrie is telling me that in order to get my Detroit Locker to work in the 1999-2001 Vitara/Tracker I can't just swap the third members, I have to take the side gears out and swap them and it sounds a little more complicated than I anticipated. Has nobody done this before? I see a thread on the same page here and it seems like a pretty straightforward swap but other sources are leading me to believe otherwise.
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You could always get them changed and set up at a performance shop. Do you have any shops around specifically for Drag racing?
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There is a driveline shop in my city that is quite reputable, I just wanted to get the budget for this rig down pat before I go out and snap one up. They seem quite reasonably priced for what you get. A 4 door with 110-150,000 km goes for less than 8 grand. Can't say the same thing about a Toyota 4Runner, but I guess you get about twice the truck for the money with one of those. I drove a V6 5 speed 4Runner on the weekend and it didn't exactly blow me away...I think I am smitten by Zuki Love!
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Ok it turns out that the 3rd should swap NO PROBLEM. I was mixed up, I thought that the bolts holding the third member into the axle housing were the 10 or 12 bolts everyone's always talking about.
Tonight I test drove my first 2nd gen Tracker...wow, what a difference. It actually accelerates going uphill at 2000 rpm!!! Getting back in my beater 97 after that REALLY makes it feel like an old jalopy in comparison...couldn't believe how much the 2nd gen felt like a go-cart. I'm really looking forward to getting my new Zuk...er, Chev?...I wonder how hard it would be to pry the bow-tie off and put a Suzuki badge on...never been the biggest GM fan!
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LOL - once my grill is completely ruined i'll be replacing it with a suzuki grill.... i hate explaining the chev thing to people.
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LOL - once my grill is completely ruined i'll be replacing it with a suzuki grill.... i hate explaining the chev thing to people.
Here in the midwest at least, I believe they sold a bunch more Trackers than Vitaras. I never have to explain anything, until the bit about the engine swap comes up.
It must drive you nuts having that bow-tie on the steering wheel right in front of your face. Might as well put a new airbag on your list while you're at it.
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Can someone throw me a how-to link about locking the rear of a vitara/tracker.. I've been trying to get a Detroit for the rear of my vit but haven't had much luck getting a solid answer on what to buy or where to get it..
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From what I gather it is uber straightforward. In my case I already have a 5.13 Detroit Locked third member so all I have to do is:
1) Remove rear tires+ brakes+ axleshafts
2) Unbolt the rear driveshaft from the rear diff
3) Unbolt the upper link from the rear diff
4) Unbolt the third member from the rear diff, pull it out, plunk the new unit in
5) Reinstall everything
Of course if you are planning on keeping stock gears (4.???) then you will have to have the gears swapped which is a more complex procedure.
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Just picked this little cutie on Saturday. Proceeded to take it wheeling up the mountains in the background the very next day.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?image=http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/3161000-3161999/3161345_2_full.jpg?243120-274
To come are: 3 or 4" lift, 31" tires on 15x7 steelies, 5.13:1 diffs, Detroit Locker rear, TrailTough t-case gears, new deck and speakers, skidplates and sliders, possibly bumpers.
PS: it's an 01 Vitara JX 4WD!
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Looks clean.. Have fun with it! Thanks for the locker info. Can you explain the gearing.. I still a newb and need to learn more about gearing..
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Stock differential gearing is 4.something. It's plenty adequate when turning the stock 26" pizza cutters. But, throw on some meaty 31x10.50 mudders and you will certainly feel a power loss because of the larger rotating mass of the 31's. To offset this, you can lower the ratio of the differential gearing on the front and rear differentials. This is fairly easy to do on these trucks because both the Vitara and Tracker and the older Sidekicks all use removable third members which have all the gears installed in them already, so you don't need to take it to a shop and have things swapped from third member to third member.
What I plan to do on my Vitara once I put 31's on it is take the lower (but numerically higher) 5.13 diff gears out of my Sidekick and install them in the Vitara. It should eliminate any power loss from running the 31's and will keep the vehicle feeling spritely as ever. That's the plan anyway, I'll get back to you how it works out when I get to it.
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Stock differential gearing is 4.something. It's plenty adequate when turning the stock 26" pizza cutters. But, throw on some meaty 31x10.50 mudders and you will certainly feel a power loss because of the larger rotating mass of the 31's. To offset this, you can lower the ratio of the differential gearing on the front and rear differentials. This is fairly easy to do on these trucks because both the Vitara and Tracker and the older Sidekicks all use removable third members which have all the gears installed in them already, so you don't need to take it to a shop and have things swapped from third member to third member.
What I plan to do on my Vitara once I put 31's on it is take the lower (but numerically higher) 5.13 diff gears out of my Sidekick and install them in the Vitara. It should eliminate any power loss from running the 31's and will keep the vehicle feeling spritely as ever. That's the plan anyway, I'll get back to you how it works out when I get to it.
Thanks alot man..sounds simple enough! Now the question is where do I get 5.13 kick 3rd members without already having a spare kick? ???
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If you want brand new ones you could probably go to your Zuki dealership, but most people just go to the wrecker or buy them off 4x4 sites or buy/sell sites.
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Thanks alot man..sounds simple enough! Now the question is where do I get 5.13 kick 3rd members without already having a spare kick? ???
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try Trail Tough for used - I picked up one from them for mine
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Thanks frank! A buddy of mine found a whole rear tracker axle for $50.. Can I swap that in? and do I need to change the front as well?
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I'd just swap over the third member (diff) from the axle - I don't think the suspension mounts are the same and I'm unsure of the brakes and width. You'll need the matching ratio for the front as well. When you find the front, you'll want to grab the front inner axle shaft along with the passenger side CV/Axle shaft to make a hybrid one with your own. This is needed unless you actually swap over just the ring and pinion (not what I'd recommend but can be done if you want). There's nice instructions for doing the front end floating around on the board, try search "shift on the fly removal" or something like that. If you can't find anything post up again and me or someone else can help out.
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http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm
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The front axle parts must be from a jp-built 96-98 Sidekick, or (according to JayinBarrie) a Sidekick Sport (wherever built).
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Well, I think you guys cleared it all up for me.. now the search is on for parts! :)
thanks fellas,
James
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The front axle parts must be from a jp-built 96-98 Sidekick, or (according to JayinBarrie) a Sidekick Sport (wherever built).
In the Shift-On-The-Fly-Removal article it say to use jp 96-98 and NOT the Canadian made 1.8L. I was having trouble finding a Japanesse made 96-98, and I was finding lots of Canadian made 1.8L. Maybe it's cause I live in the same province as the Canadian plant!!!
Nobody could say why I should not use the 1.8L, so I used the 1.8L diffs. If you have a choice, use the Japanese, better to be safe then sorry. If you can only find the Canadain 1.8L, use it.
In regards to locker. I bought a Lockrite to put in when I did the swap. I was not clear that I was doing a swap and put in the wrong locker (96-98 vs +99). I did not damage the diff, but did bust one of the locker spacers, and had to remove and go back to free spool.
Check out http://www.acksfaq.com/ and do a search for locker. There's TWO write up's, one is the Lockrite install info, the other is a great write up on BACKLASH. The Backlash article will help you a lot, way better pictures. The housing that the ring attaches to for the 96-98 is different then the backlash article, but the main info is the same.